Round Six of The RPG Character Tourney 2k4, The Battles Of Good And Evil Continue Options

[Lightning Flik]

I'm doing this early as I had gotten no votes for almost four days. Henceforth, there was no point in delaying this till when Smackdown started.

I'm sorry to announce that both Citan Uzuki and Jowy Blight have been eliminated from the tourney. I apologize to all of you who felt like these where the best characters, but they fell short in the votes.

I'd also like to announce a least something that will please those worried, Cloud finally was knocked out as well. Cheer mighty RPG fans, he survived, but you finally knocked his ass out. Took Tir to do it, but hey, take what you can.

Anyways, here's your final four for each grouping. Five of Eight characters left in the tourney are from Square-Enix. Now no one bitch about that, because that's what you people voted.

Hero Tourney:

Celes of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Terra of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Tir of Suikoden


Villian Tourney:

Death of Castlevania
vs.
Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Queen Zeal of Chrono Trigger
vs.
Magus of Chrono Trigger

Voting will end on Thursday next week.

[Hogan Made Wrest...]

Hero Tourney:

Celes of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Terra of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Tir of Suikoden


Villian Tourney:

Death of Castlevania
vs.
Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Queen Zeal of Chrono Trigger
vs.
Magus of Chrono Trigger

[chaosrage]

Hero Tourney:

Celes of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Terra of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Tir of Suikoden


Villian Tourney:

Death of Castlevania
vs.
Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Queen Zeal of Chrono Trigger
vs.
Magus of Chrono Trigger

This round sucks, heh.

[Anya]

Celes of Final Fantasy 6
Terra of Final Fantasy 6


Luca Blight of Suikoden 2
Magus of Chrono Trigger




WTF is Death doing here?

[The Man in Blak]

Celes
Terra

Luca
Magus

[Kardo]

Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Terra of Final Fantasy 6



Villian Tourney:

Death of Castlevania

Magus of Chrono Trigger

[EricMM]

Celes of Final Fantasy 6

Terra of Final Fantasy 6

Villian Tourney:

Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Magus of Chrono Trigger

BTW at this point it really seems like people are voting for the game over the character.

I mean, I for one, unfortunately missed Suik2

[Insane Bump Mach...]

Celes of Final Fantasy 6

Terra of Final Fantasy 6

Death of Castlevania

Magus of Chrono Trigger

[Kahran Ramsus]

Citan, Jowy & Ramsus all go out in the same round? Who the hell is voting in these things?

Kain
Tir McDohl

Luca Blight
Magus/Janus Zeal

The finals are going to be downright sad.

[Highland]

Celes
TIr

Luca Blight
Magus

Two tweeners here....

This post has been edited by Naibus: May 5 2004, 02:07 PM

[Lightning Flik]

Citan, Jowy & Ramsus all go out in the same round? Who the hell is voting in these things?

The finals are going to be downright sad.

I don't know, but they went down.

I'm expecting Kain vs. Tir and Luca vs. Magus.

Hero Tourney:

Celes of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Terra of Final Fantasy 6
vs.
Tir of Suikoden


Villian Tourney:

Death of Castlevania
vs.
Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Queen Zeal of Chrono Trigger
vs.
Magus of Chrono Trigger

[Jer]

Heroes:

Celes of Final Fantasy 6

Tir of Suikoden

Villians:

Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Magus of Chrono Trigger

[AndrewTS]

Yeah. Alas the games seemed to be winning out over the characters. A lot of the people I wanted to stay went down too. Oh well.

I bear none of the responsibility. Everyone knows I hate Xenogears. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I guess its characters weren't too popular with others here, though. Citan's still rather cool, though; better than that *other* Uzuki in the Xeno series.

Plus, maybe 3 people here have played Suikoden 2. It's not too hard to figure out why its characters didn't fare so hot in the tourney. It hard to get jazzed up for a character in a game you never played.

Anyway, my votes:

Kain of Final Fantasy 4

Tir of Suikoden


Villian Tourney:

Luca Blight of Suikoden 2

Queen Zeal of Chrono Trigger

"Anyways, here's your final four for each grouping. Five of Eight characters left in the tourney are from Square-Enix. Now no one bitch about that, because that's what you people voted."

Hey, I'm not the one that let Celes and Terra make it this far. At least no one from a FinFan past VI is going to win.

"WTF is Death doing here?"

He's Death, damnit!

Really, he's just a guy doing his job, but in the CV games he takes sides with Drac. No, they're not RPGs, but he was nominated and picked for the tourney. *shrug*

[chaosrage]

Citan, Jowy & Ramsus all go out in the same round? Who the hell is voting in these things?

Kain
Tir McDohl

Luca Blight
Magus/Janus Zeal

The finals are going to be downright sad.

It's scary that some people are voting for Celes. Celes in the finals would be almost as bad as Cloud.

[Guest_GreatMuta_*]

Kain
Tir McDohl

Luca Blight
Magus

[The Man in Blak]

It's scary that some people are voting for Celes. Celes in the finals would be almost as bad as Cloud.

Care to expand on that?

[Lightning Flik]

"WTF is Death doing here?"

He's Death, damnit!

Really, he's just a guy doing his job, but in the CV games he takes sides with Drac. No, they're not RPGs, but he was nominated and picked for the tourney. *shrug*

I added Zelda and Castlevania for this year alone to make sure that no one complains later on if I didn't include them for some lame ass reason. I didn't make up a rule for how RPGs are, and what is included or not.

Next year, everything will be made crystal clear.

[Hoff]

It's scary that some people are voting for Celes.  Celes in the finals would be almost as bad as Cloud.

Care to expand on that?

Dunno if he wants to, but I will.

Celes as a stand-alone character is bland. She's not overly conflicted; she's doing her duty for the Empire, and has little issue with it. Only when Locke is brought into the picture does she become intriguing, and that's only because of Locke's deep-seeded problems stemming from the incident with Rachel. I admit, conflict did arise with Cid and the Magitek Research Facility, but even at Cid's death, Celes relies on Locke's bandana to inspire her to strike out. I'll give you that she ends up being fairly major as the one who begins the reuiniting, but that becomes basically forgotten by the story's conclusion, and is only really due to the fact that the game had to pick SOMEONE for you to start as after the End of the World, and Celes and Cid needed resolution, so why not.

Kain, on the other hand, has some incredible conflict of his own; he battles between honor and pride, fights a mind control spell, and of course, plays the semi-stalker role to perfection.

Add in how much cooler Jump is than friggin' Runic Blade and it's not even a question, in my book.

[Anya]

I think using the word "incredible" and "perfection" to describe Kain's story is stretching it quite a bit. I will never understand the hype for FF IV's story. The Kain "saga" is not exactly the most epic story ever told. Actually it's about as deep and moving as Tetris' story.


Kain and Cecil will be walking along fighting goblins when suddenly Kain stabs Cecil in the back for the 6th time.

Cecil: Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayl!

Kain: Ha ha ha! Mine is an evil laugh......now die~!


Over and over.



I guess if you really use your imagination you can paint it out to be this epic struggle between honor and loyalty or something but the actual game has like 2 sentences for it.

[Jer]

I think Kain could have been really cool if FF4 did a better job telling stories in general. FF4 feels like it has a bunch of great ideas, but the dialogue is so bland and cliche ridden that it never quite pulls off the story it's trying to tell. The bad translation certainly didn't help, either. On the other hand, FF6 did such a great job telling its story that I ended up really liking almost all of the characters. I wouldn't mind seeing Locke, Celes, Setzer, Shadow, Cyan, Edgar or Sabin making it this far. The only main character in FF6 that I didn't like was Terra, who just never seemed to have any real free will. It always just felt like she was doing what she was told, or what she was expected to. She felt like a pretty weak heroine. I would have liked to see some other FF6 character in the final four instead of her.

[Hoff]

Jer makes a good point, but that's something I had kind of factored in. Kain was a compelling character despite FFIV's weaker storytelling and dialogue, while to me, Celes was somewhat weak despite FFVI's great story. So...there you go.

I think we're also forgetting about Jump, people. It's like, "Where'd he go? Where'd he go?" *BAM*

EDIT: FWIW, I thought the basic story in IV was great, it just wasn't well translated or told, or delved into deeply enough.

[chaosrage]

I think using the word "incredible" and "perfection" to describe Kain's story is stretching it quite a bit. I will never understand the hype for FF IV's story. The Kain "saga" is not exactly the most epic story ever told. Actually it's about as deep and moving as Tetris' story.


Kain and Cecil will be walking along fighting goblins when suddenly Kain stabs Cecil in the back for the 6th time.

Cecil: Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayl!

Kain: Ha ha ha! Mine is an evil laugh......now die~!


Over and over.



I guess if you really use your imagination you can paint it out to be this epic struggle between honor and loyalty or something but the actual game has like 2 sentences for it.

Ok, Kain only turned twice. The second time made perfect sense if you think that he was only pretending to be good the whole time, and was just waiting to screw you over to get the crystals. Remember that there was no way Golbez could've got that last crystal without Kain.

For the first turn, anything could have happened since the the last time you saw him. It's clear even at the very beginning though that Kain is jealous of Cecil and doesn't want to break ties with Baron.

Also, Kain actually had personality unlike Celes and Cloud. And he was good in battle, while Celes was one of the most useless characters.

[Lightning Flik]

Also, Kain actually had personality unlike Celes and Cloud.  And he was good in battle, while Celes was one of the most useless characters.

Celes becomes obsolete when you get to the World of Ruin.

When everyone got a party of five, how many actually kept Celes in their party? I know I certainly didn't.

While Celes wasn't very captivating, she did have a personality that was just flawed. As they had her play out as someone frosty and cold, and not in connection with her feelings. If they had actually played out the Locke & Celes story out better, I think it would've made her transformation into a "normal" person a little better to swallow, and might've actually given her a little bit more of us giving a damn about her in WoR. As she absolutely does NOTHING in WoR of notice, till Locke shows up, and it isn't all that much when she does see him and Rachel.

Now if you let Cid die, Celes shows off a personality that we should get to see more of, but we see nothing of it afterwards. Why do that? You let everyone else get something of mention that adds to their character, but the little bit that Celes shows just shows her getting open with the world (even if Cid lives), and that isn't really full character growth. But rather getting the character to break out of its mold and be ready to evolve. Celes should've been able to talk to Locke after Rachel dies and let Locke know that he meant something to her, even if she says just a friend. There is no conclusion with how she feels, unless you count her ending, and that feels like a cop out as you don't actually see her do that.

I'm not saying Celes wasn't an intriguing character, as she was. But a lot was dropped in what they could do for story. For all the characters they added to FFVI (and this is my main peeve with this game), is that if you slashed off some of the more not really needed characters, they could've devoted their time to building up the FFVI main characters into probably the best cast out there (which, for me, is reserved for Chrono Trigger's gang).

At least, this is why I won't vote Celes over Kain.

[chaosrage]

Now if you let Cid die, Celes shows off a personality that we should get to see more of, but we see nothing of it afterwards.

Yeah? I never let Cid die as many times as I played through it. What does she do?

[Lightning Flik]

Now if you let Cid die, Celes shows off a personality that we should get to see more of, but we see nothing of it afterwards.

Yeah? I never let Cid die as many times as I played through it. What does she do?

Basically gets all weepy and stuff, tries killing herself (although, I think it is done either way, it makes it seem easier to swallow with Cid dying). It pretty much the only time she does anything of notice in WoR.

[EricMM]

Celes singing in the opera was cute, because she was acting like this emotional girl and you know that inside her she was actually like that, but never showed it.

[chaosrage]

Basically gets all weepy and stuff, tries killing herself (although, I think it is done either way, it makes it seem easier to swallow with Cid dying). It pretty much the only time she does anything of notice in WoR.

Nope, he just gives her the raft, and she leaves...

[Lightning Flik]

Basically gets all weepy and stuff, tries killing herself (although, I think it is done either way, it makes it seem easier to swallow with Cid dying). It pretty much the only time she does anything of notice in WoR.

Nope, he just gives her the raft, and she leaves...

Domo. I couldn't really recall this, as I only saved Cid ONCE in my entire trials with FF6.

[chaosrage]

Why wouldn't you save Cid? All you have to do is feed him fast fish.

[Lightning Flik]

Why wouldn't you save Cid? All you have to do is feed him fast fish.

I just had the luck of bad fish. Honestly, I'd get the bad ones and that was it.