Because I didn't see this posted here yet..., The Paris riots Options

[Dobbs 3K]

There's been riots going on in the Paris, France area for over a week now. This in the same country that criticized the US for being unprepared for the hurricanes...take note...this is what happens when you allow 10% of a western nation's population to become Muslim.

Unrest Reaches Paris; 13 Cars Torched
By ELAINE GANLEY

PARIS (AP) - The urban unrest that triggered scores of arson attacks on vehicles, nursery schools and other targets from the Mediterranean to the German border reached Paris overnight, with police saying early Sunday that 13 cars were burned in the French capital.

By 1 a.m., at least 607 vehicles - including those in Paris - were burned during the 10th night of violence, said Patrick Hamon, spokesman for the national police. The overall figures were expected to climb by daybreak, he added.

The violence - originally concentrated in neighborhoods northeast of Paris with large immigrant populations - has spread across France, extending west to the rolling fields of Normandy and south to resort cities on the Mediterranean. Attacks were reported in Cannes and Nice.

In the Normandy town of Evreux, arsonists burned at least 50 vehicles, part of a shopping center, a post office and two schools, Hamon said.

Five police officers and three firefighters were injured battling the blazes, he said.

The unrest is forcing France to confront long-simmering anger in its suburbs, where many Africans and their French-born children live on society's margins, struggling with unemployment, poor housing, racial discrimination, crime and a lack of opportunity.

Police deployed a helicopter and tactical teams to chase down youths speeding from one attack to another in cars and on motorbikes. Some 2,300 police were brought into the Paris region to bolster security, France-Info said. More than 250 people were arrested.

The violence erupted Oct. 27 following the accidental electrocution of two teenagers who hid in a power substation, apparently believing police were chasing them.

The anger spread to the Internet, with blogs mourning the youths.

Along with messages of condolence and appeals for calm were insults targeting police, threats of more violence and warnings that the unrest will feed support for France's anti-immigration extreme right.

"Civil war is declared. There will no doubt be deaths. Unfortunately, we have to prepare," said a posting signed "Rania."

"We are going to destroy everything. Rest in peace, guys," wrote "Saint Denis."

The unrest reached Paris late Saturday. Hamon had no immediate information on the neighborhoods where the vehicles were torched. Paris police headquarters said three cars were damaged by fire in the Republique section, northeast of City Hall.

"It's copycat acts," Hamon said. "All these hoodlums see others setting fires and say they can do it, too."

Evreux, 60 miles to the west, appeared to suffer the worst damage Saturday. The burning of the shopping center showed that "there is a will to pillage," Hamon said. "This has been true since the start," referring to grocery stores, video stores and other businesses that have been set afire.

The unrest has taken on unprecedented scope and intensity, reaching far-flung corners of France on Saturday, from Rouen in Normandy to Bordeaux in the southwest to Strasbourg near the German border.

However, the Paris region has borne the brunt.

In quiet Acheres, on the edge of the St. Germain forest west of Paris, arsonists burned a nursery school, where part of the roof caved in, and about a dozen cars in attacks the mayor described as "perfectly organized."

Children's photos clung to the blackened walls, and melted plastic toys littered the floor. Residents gathered at the school gate, demanding that the army be deployed or suggesting that citizens band together to protect their neighborhoods.

Mayor Alain Outreman tried to cool tempers.

"We are not going to start militias," he said. "You would have to be everywhere."

Cars were torched in the cultural bastion of Avignon in the south and the resort cities of Nice and Cannes, a police officer said.

Arson was reported in Nantes in the southwest, the Lille region in the north and Saint-Dizier in the Ardennes region east of Paris. In the eastern city of Strasbourg, 18 cars were set alight in full daylight, police said.

In one attack, youths in the eastern Paris suburb of Meaux prevented paramedics from evacuating a sick person from a housing project. They pelted rescuers with rocks and then torched the waiting ambulance, an Interior Ministry official said.

Most of the overnight arrests occurred near Paris. Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy warned that those convicted could face severe sentences for burning cars.

"Violence penalizes those who live in the toughest conditions," he said after a government crisis meeting.

Most rioting has been in towns with low-income housing projects where unemployment and distrust of police run high. But in a new development, arsonists were moving beyond their heavily policed neighborhoods to attack others with less security, Hamon said.

"They are very mobile, in cars or scooters. ... It is quite hard to combat" he said. "Most are young, very young, we have even seen young minors."

There appeared to be no coordination between separate groups in different areas, Hamon said. But within gangs, he added, youths are communicating by cell phones or e-mails.

"They organize themselves, arrange meetings, some prepare the Molotov cocktails," he said.

In Torcy, close to Disneyland Paris, a youth center and a police station were set ablaze. In Suresnes, on the Seine River west of the capital, 44 cars were burned in a parking lot.

"We thought Suresnes was calm," said Naima Mouis, a hospital employee whose car was torched.

On Saturday morning, more than 1,000 people marched through one of the worst-hit suburbs, Aulnay-sous-Bois. Local officials wore sashes in the red, white and blue of the French flag as they filed past housing projects and the wrecks of burned cars. One white banner read, "No to violence."

Anger was fanned days ago when a tear gas bomb exploded in a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois - the northern suburb where the youths were electrocuted.

Sarkozy also has inflamed passions by referring to troublemakers as "scum."

[Vampiro69]

I think the ironic thing is that France said that if we continued to treat Muslims the way we did we would have riots in the streets. Lo and behold it ends up being France's muslim population that is rioting.

[SuperJerk]

There's been riots going on in the Paris, France area for over a week now. This in the same country that criticized the US for being unprepared for the hurricanes...take note...this is what happens when you allow 10% of a western nation's population to become Muslim.

Yes, because I'd want to live in a country that has strict quotas on how many people can belong to what religion.

[MrRant]

If we start quotas, then the Jews are first since you know... they're used to it.

[Dobbs 3K]

It's not so much about religion as it is about culture. To be fair, France has tried to assimilate these Arabs and North Africans into the French culture (at least from what I understand), but it seems more and more like they _don't_ want to assimilate. France has social welfare, giving people housing and such. I guess that is not enough for many of these people though, members of the so called "religion of peace."

The Middle East is not the frontier of jihad, Western Europe is.

[SuperJerk]

If we start quotas, then the Jews are first since you know... they're used to it.

OH NO YOU DI-INT~!!!!!!

I guess that is not enough for many of these people though, members of the so called "religion of peace."

Sarcastically calling Islam the "religion of peace" got old a long time ago. I've honestly never heard anyone call it that, except to be a jackass.

[Dobbs 3K]

President George W. Bush called it a "religion of peace."

[Dr. Tyler; Capta...]

I don't know exactly how you expect to FORCE a group of people to assimilate. Suggestions?

[BX]

Inject them with nanorobots that change their physiology and turn them into cyborgs?

[CheesalaIsGood]

I don't know exactly how you expect to FORCE a group of people to assimilate. Suggestions?

Bribes.

[Dobbs 3K]

How about shooting the rioters to start?

[megaadvice]

This is where hard line, morronic right wing government gets you.

[Art Sandusky]

I don't get how riots there relate to criticisms of hurricane preparedness here. They're two totally different circumstances.

[Skywarp!]

Also, was it France that banned or tried to ban turbins in the workplace?

[Guest_clockworkraven_*]

It was France that tried to prevent a girl from wearing the hijab (headscarf) in school, at least.

[2GOLD]

I don't know exactly how you expect to FORCE a group of people to assimilate. Suggestions?

Call the Borg.
Yes, I mean John Kerry.

[Perfxion]

How many times has Paris been in riots since 1789? too many to count. Besides, the way downtown Paris was remade in the 1860s you can not hold a riot for long since the police can easily run over anything. Send in the troops and problem solved.

[2GOLD]

Watching it on tv last night (replays I guess unless they are still going), it really looked like a scene from Dawn of the Dead. Fires, people running, the cops backing away from the charging people.
Play either Johnny Cash or Disturbed and you can't tell if it's riots or zombies.

[Big Ol' Smitty]

President George W. Bush called it a "religion of peace."

Y2J:

I've honestly never heard anyone call it that, except...a jackass.

[Dobbs 3K]

Well there you go. So I guess we're all in agreement that Islam is not a religion of peace.

I don't know what is taking France so long to deal with this, other than the fact that they're French. I mean, after 12 days don't you start using more than just police to quell the violence?

[dubq]

I missed the part of the article where it says that these rioters are Muslim.

[2GOLD]

I missed the part of the article where it says that these rioters are Muslim.

It's kinda been a mix. The riots are happening in the areas of the city where the majority is muslim. Course why you would destroy your own homes is something I've never fully understood about rioting.

"YEAH! I'm so mad I'm going to burn my own house down! That'll show em!"

[DARRYLXWF]

This is where hard line, morronic right wing government gets you.

Er, what the fuck?

This is where idiots who know nothing about France fuck up. Because Chirac and Co are the most 'right wing' compared to the other parties (excluding the crazy Le Pen), the problems of France are somehow classified as consequences of right wing policy.

How is massive agricultural protection and gigantic government subsidies 'right wing'?

How is a wealth tax right wing?

How is a centralised and state influenced education system right wing?

How in God's name, is Chirac, the man who proclaimed 'Liberalism is as diastrous as Communism' RIGHT WING?!!

Not to mention banning religious symbols and their fight against multiculturalism for 'frenchness'.

France is the only western nation I know of where Socialism is considered a legitimate alternative.

And on top of this, their fervent fight against trade liberalisation at the coming WTO meeting.

The French is to right wing as Adolf Hitler is to judaism.

[Art Sandusky]

Sure, pick off the dumbasses. That'll make it easy.

No rational person would call France an arch-conservative nation. This is more like issues of assimilation and economics.

And any (mainstream) religion is a religion of peace. Practicioners might be extremists (abortion clinic bombings are no better than shopping centers), but the religions are peaceful. Any attempt to say otherwise shows deeper-seated motivations.

[Vyce]

There's been riots going on in the Paris, France area for over a week now. This in the same country that criticized the US for being unprepared for the hurricanes...take note...this is what happens when you allow 10% of a western nation's population to become Muslim.

Yes, because I'd want to live in a country that has strict quotas on how many people can belong to what religion.

I would have thought you'd be for that, at least given your own feelings on Christianity.

[SuperJerk]

There's been riots going on in the Paris, France area for over a week now. This in the same country that criticized the US for being unprepared for the hurricanes...take note...this is what happens when you allow 10% of a western nation's population to become Muslim.

Yes, because I'd want to live in a country that has strict quotas on how many people can belong to what religion.

I would have thought you'd be for that, at least given your own feelings on Christianity.

I don't care how many of you people there are. I just wish people would quit trying to convert me.

[Art Sandusky]

They aren't, you're just misinterpreting living deep in the heart of Judeo-Christian culture as constant conversion attempts.

[Dobbs 3K]

Religion aside, France is an example of what could happen to the US if we don't act now to curb illegal immigration.

[Big Ol' Smitty]

Religion aside, France is an example of what could happen to the US if we don't act now to curb illegal immigration.

Does France have a big illegal immigration problem?

Let's keep in mind that France is ardently assimilationist and very much against multiculturalism. I don't think there's a huge threat in the US for massive Mexican-American riots because we generally require only acculturation, not complete assimilation here. America is, as a rule, more accepting of heterogeneity and less xenophopic than France.

America has been referred to as a "melting pot," but I would argue that we are actually more of a salad bowl. France has more of a melting pot policy, in that they expect immigrants to completely assimilate. America tends to celebrate differences and diversity.

[Danville_Wrestli...]

Religion aside, France is an example of what could happen to the US if we don't act now to curb illegal immigration.

Does France have a big illegal immigration problem?

Let's keep in mind that France is ardently assimilationist and very much against multiculturalism. I don't think there's a huge threat in the US for massive Mexican-American riots because we generally require only acculturation, not complete assimilation here. America is, as a rule, more accepting of heterogeneity and less xenophopic than France.

America has been referred to as a "melting pot," but I would argue that we are actually more of a salad bowl. France has more of a melting pot policy, in that they expect immigrants to completely assimilate. America tends to celebrate differences and diversity.

Good point. France does, though, have an illegal immigration problem as North Africans are starting to come to it by way of Spain (mostly from Morocco). It may not be as large as the U.S. or other countries, but it happens.