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Make contentious statements, And i'll tear you a new asshole
Guest_evenflowDDT_*
post May 21 2002, 10:47 PM
Post #241





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QUOTE(ZGangsta @ May 21 2002,17:02)
Statement: This new mass marketed, image heavy, horrible sounding, bling-bling rap/R&B crap has dethroned dance-pop as the "Big Thing."
I actually think I perferred dance-pop, it was less fake.

Rebuttal: Though I'd hesitate to call "bling bling" new since that was SO 2000/2001, I'd say that the production values are all that have influenced dance-pop (which has changed from EuroTrash/house to slick hip-hoppish production a la The Neptunes).  Pop has always been fairly image heavy... remember "Material Girl"? (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Statement: See Anorak's statement about Paul Wellers being a bore.  I have no idea who he is, so anyone else care to rebutt that because I couldn't?
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Guest_muzanisa_*
post May 22 2002, 12:46 PM
Post #242





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Rebuttal- Paul Wellars career with the style council was also a bore.


Statement - The Jam are one of the most influential bands ever, they have been ripped off by every alternative band in the US since Green Day. They are at least the equal of the Kinks and superior to their contemporaries the Sex Pistols and The Clash.
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Guest_evenflowDDT_*
post May 30 2002, 10:23 PM
Post #243





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*BUMP*

Don't kill this thread... it's partially my own fault for not knowing any Jam songs (though I have heard of them), but... this thread is such an accomplishment.  SOMEONE else in this thread has to know The Jam.
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Guest_The Man in Blak_*
post May 30 2002, 11:27 PM
Post #244





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Rebuttal: Pearl Jam are the total Miss Congeniality of the alternative scene.  They were basically thrown together from the ashes of Green River to match up with the huge wave of Nirvana's popularity and they essentially became the corporate-friendly band of the alternative wave.  Yeah, I know how ironic that is, with their Ticketmaster boycott, but they were easily the most marketable band out of the Seattle scene and it's not an accident.  PJ has great musicianship and Vedder has some amazing lyrics at times, but they are uneven at best after the first two albums.  Vitalogy has one or two gems and No Code is somewhat underrated, but they are extremely hit and miss for everything past Vs., essentially solidifying them as the Rolling Stones to the Nirvana's Beatles.  Their last big hit was a tepid cover of an oldie, and I think that speaks volumes about their current creativity.

Statement:  Tom Waits is simultaneously the most intriguing and frustrating artist EVER.
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Guest_Spaceman Spiff_*
post May 31 2002, 06:40 AM
Post #245





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QUOTE(The Man in Blak @ May 31 2002,03:27)
Rebuttal: Pearl Jam are the total Miss Congeniality of the alternative scene.  They were basically thrown together from the ashes of Green River to match up with the huge wave of Nirvana's popularity and they essentially became the corporate-friendly band of the alternative wave.

Rebuttal: Well, the previous statement was about The Jam, not Pearl Jam.  But anyway...

Thrown together by whom?  Jack Irons hooked Eddie up w/ the rest of the band.  Plus, their 1st show as a band was in 1990, pre-dating Nirvana's (and "grunge's") mainstream popularity by at least 2-3 years.

And as for marketability, I doubt that was an active focus for the band.  I mean, they didn't make any videos for any songs after Ten save for "Do The Evolution", and you could count the number of times that video has been played on 1 hand.  "Last Kiss" was supposed to be nothing more than a fan-club single.  However, radio got ahold of it & played the crap out of it, so they decided to release it & put a % of the proceeds towards charity.

Statement: Ummm, I don't have one.  The next guy can put forth one.
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Guest_evenflowDDT_*
post May 31 2002, 05:26 PM
Post #246





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QUOTE(The Man in Blak @ May 30 2002,22:27)
Statement:  Tom Waits is simultaneously the most intriguing and frustrating artist EVER.

Semi-Rebuttal: I'm not familiar with all of Tom Waits' material, but I'm not sure what you mean by him being both intriguing AND frustrating.  He's an intriguing musician perhaps, with some solid material, but frustrating? How? Some artists I can think of that are both intriguing and frustrating are: Bob Dylan (brilliant song-writer, terrible song-singer), Johnny Cash (another brilliant song-writer, though somewhat inconsistent), and David Bowie (excellent at creating characters and songs, although when he's "playing himself" without a concept album, he fails to generate interest).

Statement: I just made three.  Pick one.  Boy, I'm getting lazy, eh? (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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Guest_The Man in Blak_*
post Jun 1 2002, 12:47 AM
Post #247





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I wasn't putting forth my own opinion about Waits - I just figure that some people that have listened to him have probably thought, "Man, this guy is a killer songwriter, but his voice has got to go."  I personally like the guy, but he's no easy listen.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Jul 6 2002, 09:40 PM
Post #248





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*bump*

Happy Kinetic Day, everybody! Revisit your favorite Kinetic moments, where ever they may be!
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Guest_Incandenza_*
post Jul 6 2002, 09:48 PM
Post #249





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Quasi-rebuttal on this Tom Waits issue: It isn't likely that someone who would be completely turned-off by Waits' voice would still dig his music. Even if he had a beautiful voice--but, in a sense, his voice is beautiful--he often writes difficult, uncompromising songs. He usually tones down his voice for his prettier songs to a nice, raspy croon--like on the title track of Alice--but there are always exceptions--like "Downtown Train" off of Rain Dogs, a song later covered wih much commercial success by Rod Stewart. Incidentally, my mother--a big fan of Stewart's--heard the Waits original thanks to me, and was heard to say, "This is horrible."

Feh. What the fuck does she know?
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Guest_BobbyBacklund_*
post Jul 6 2002, 10:44 PM
Post #250





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Umm, David Bowie is the greatest and most influential musician EVER. Yeah, that will garner some flaming, but I really believe it, and there was nothing left for me to debate....
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Guest_Shaved Bear_*
post Jul 6 2002, 11:06 PM
Post #251





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QUOTE(BobbyBacklund @ Jul 7 2002, 12:44 AM)
Umm, David Bowie is the greatest and most influential musician EVER. Yeah, that will garner some flaming, but I really believe it, and there was nothing left for me to debate....

The most influential musical person/group ever is Led Zep/Beatles, alothough favored by everyone, they are because it is the trus

Argue which one is more influential and why
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Guest_godthedog_*
post Jul 7 2002, 04:22 PM
Post #252





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QUOTE(Shaved Bear @ Jul 7 2002, 05:06 AM)
QUOTE(BobbyBacklund @ Jul 7 2002, 12:44 AM)
Umm, David Bowie is the greatest and most influential musician EVER. Yeah, that will garner some flaming, but I really believe it, and there was nothing left for me to debate....

The most influential musical person/group ever is Led Zep/Beatles, alothough favored by everyone, they are because it is the trus

Argue which one is more influential and why

the beatles, easily. i believe they were one of the few bands at the time to write almost all their own material, which is the norm now. not only that, they broke far more new ground than zeppelin and EVERYBODY followed them.

'yesterday' is the first rock/pop song to use strings (at least that's what george martin says).

'i feel fine' is the first offically released recording to feature feedback, ever.

they pioneered backward tape loops and the use of non-rock instruments (sitars, orchestras, mellotron, moog synthesizer, etc).

'sgt pepper' was the first album ever to be built around one central idea. this contribution alone is almost immeasurable.

'sgt pepper' also had the first gatefold cover, and was the first album to feature lyrics in the liner notes.

the beatles basically changed the way music was made. zeppelin can't say the same.
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Guest_The Metal Maniac_*
post Jul 7 2002, 08:06 PM
Post #253





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Is it really fair to say that writing your own music is the norm?

'Cuz it sure ain't the norm on the pop scene, from what I can see...
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Guest_godthedog_*
post Jul 8 2002, 09:43 AM
Post #254





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QUOTE(The_Metal_Maniac @ Jul 8 2002, 02:06 AM)
Is it really fair to say that writing your own music is the norm?

'Cuz it sure ain't the norm on the pop scene, from what I can see...

it's the norm for rock bands, obviously not for pop artists and the like.
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