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WWF Survivor Series 1991 & This Tuesday In Texas, A $25 infomercial for a $13 PPV.
Boner Kawanger
post Nov 17 2008, 06:16 PM
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I really don't appreciate the camera angle on the replay of Duggan's three point stance
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Bruiser Chong
post Nov 17 2008, 06:24 PM
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I was confused by the Monsoon hate, too, but understand when looking at it from an impartial point of view. He wasn't a very good play-by-play guy in the most literal sense, though it was never blatantly apparent like with Vince. He also seemingly hated virtually all referees, often criticizing them when the situation didn't really warrant it.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 17 2008, 06:43 PM
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He always was quick to defend that Joey Marella lad from verbal attack though.
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Enigma
post Nov 17 2008, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (DrVenkman PhD @ Nov 17 2008, 07:43 PM) *
He always was quick to defend that Joey Marella lad from verbal attack though.


Not really. Gorilla let him have it when Sherri got in the ring. "C'mon, referee, what do we have to do? Draw you a picture?"

And I caught another "WWF" slipping by the censors, this time when the Nasty Boys are coming out.
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Enigma
post Nov 17 2008, 08:53 PM
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And now for my 4,000th post, it's time to play the always fun "Who on This Show Is Dead Now?" game.

12

Gorilla Monsoon (died in 1999, diabetes)
Jack Tunney (died in 2004, heart attack)
Joey Marella (died in 1994, car accident)
Sensational Sherri (died in 2007, drug overdose)
Mr. Perfect (died in 2003, drug overdose)
Davey Boy Smith (died in 2002, heart attack)
Elizabeth (died in 2003, drug overdose)
Hercules (died in 2004, heart attack)
Kerry Von Erich (died in 1993, suicide)
Earthquake (died in 2006, cancer)
Hawk (died in 2003, heart attack)
Big Bossman (died in 2004, heart attack)
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heyguesswhatidid
post Nov 17 2008, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (Enigma @ Nov 17 2008, 09:53 PM) *
And now for my 4,000th post, it's time to play the always fun "Who on This Show Is Dead Now?" game.

10

Gorilla Monsoon (died in 1999, diabetes)
Joey Marella (died in 1994, car accident)
Sensational Sherri (died in 2007, drug overdose)
Davey Boy Smith (died in 2002, heart attack)
Elizabeth (died in 2003, drug overdose)
Hercules (died in 2004, heart attack)
Kerry Von Erich (died in 1993, suicide)
Earthquake (died in 2006, cancer)
Hawk (died in 2003, heart attack)
Big Bossman (died in 2004, heart attack)



Wow. shockingly low for a 17 year old show.
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PILLS! PILLS...
post Nov 17 2008, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Enigma @ Nov 17 2008, 09:53 PM) *
And now for my 4,000th post, it's time to play the always fun "Who on This Show Is Dead Now?" game.

10

Gorilla Monsoon (died in 1999, diabetes)
Joey Marella (died in 1994, car accident)
Sensational Sherri (died in 2007, drug overdose)
Davey Boy Smith (died in 2002, heart attack)
Elizabeth (died in 2003, drug overdose)
Hercules (died in 2004, heart attack)
Kerry Von Erich (died in 1993, suicide)
Earthquake (died in 2006, cancer)
Hawk (died in 2003, heart attack)
Big Bossman (died in 2004, heart attack)


You forgot Curt Hennig and Jack Tunney. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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Darth Pipes
post Nov 17 2008, 10:04 PM
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I think Wrestlemania VII has about 13-14 guys who are dead. There are entire matches full of dead guys. Kerry Von Erich vs Dino Bravo. Curt Hennig vs The Big Bossman w/Andre the Giant. One half of LOD and one half of Power and Glory. Both women involved in the Warrior/Savage match are dead. Hell, through various means Andre, Von Erich, and Bravo would be dead two years later.
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Enigma
post Nov 17 2008, 10:54 PM
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Goddamn it. I remembered Tunney on my own but forgot Hennig because he was only out there for about 30 seconds.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 19 2008, 02:22 AM
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I was trying to think of the logistics of a PPV being set up in just 6 days and how it must have been arranged in advance with the cable companies. I'm wondering if there were any spoilers in ads or what have you. Based on the October 7, 1991 Observer (so let's say as of October 2nd) the PPV was just announced internally. Apparently it was announced as a result of 'out of nowhere' financial problems.

Also, because the shows are so closely linked (with this PPV essentially being a $30 ad for a $10 PPV) and 24/7 is nice enough to show them back to back, AND we've already done a lot of This Tuesday in Texas talk, consider this thread a combination of both shows.

Edit: Had I kept reading before mentioning it...

QUOTE (October 7 @ 1991 WON)
The second PPV show, set for December 6 at the HemisFair Arena in San Antonio, will be kept a secret from wrestling fans in order to not affect the buy rate for the Survivor Series. Cable companies and PPV distributors have been contacted over the past two weeks regarding the show and have been told to keep it quiet but sources within the cable industry have confirmed that it's a WWF event. It's technically right now a three-hour window (which means about a two hour, 45 minute show) simply being listed as "Special Event" with a $12.95 suggested price (approximately half the price being charged for Survivors the previous week) and there is to be no publicity that it is a WWF event.


That price was lowered when it became a 2 hour show, right? Maybe I'm just confused with old TNA PPVs. I emember back in the early 90s we used to get a magazine with a programming guide for The Movie Network and there was always a section advertising upcoming PPVs. That's how I found out Warrior vs. Savage was the SummerSlam 92 main event so I was curious if such a thing happen for this show in 1991, but it looks like Vince had his bases covered.

Edit 2: Just read something on Google groups from good ol Herb Kunze, much closer to the event, confirming prices of the era. It also mentioned how the December 6th date (which I didn't even catch) that was originally reported was incorrect.
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cabbageboy
post Nov 19 2008, 11:28 AM
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I don't have Tuesday in Texas on my 24/7 at the moment. Is this something that will show up in December?
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Enigma
post Nov 19 2008, 01:09 PM
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I don't have Tuesday in Texas either.
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KingPK
post Nov 19 2008, 01:37 PM
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I think that's coming in the first week of December.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 19 2008, 02:10 PM
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As soon as Survivor Series 91 expires, Texas shows up (first December update). This was just preemptive.
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cabbageboy
post Nov 19 2008, 05:18 PM
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Ah it will be nice to see that Tues. in Texas show again. Haven't seen that one in years.
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PILLS! PILLS...
post Nov 19 2008, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (cabbageboy @ Nov 19 2008, 06:18 PM) *
Ah it will be nice to see that Tues. in Texas show again.


You say that now, but...
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PILLS! PILLS...
post Nov 19 2008, 05:41 PM
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Check out this dark match listing from This Tuesday...

The Harris Brothers (Don and Ron) defeated Brian Donahue and Brian Costello.
Sir Charles defeated Dale Wolfe.
Chris Walker defeated Brian Lee.
Chris Chavis defeated JW Storm.
Ric Flair defeated Roddy Piper.

Just so you know, Sir Charles is Charles Wright (Papa Shango, Godfather), Chris Chavis is Tatanka and JW Storm is Maxx Muscle (DDP's bodyguard). Funny to see future DOA members (Harris Bros, Brian Lee) working the rounds as well.
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Darth Pipes
post Nov 19 2008, 06:01 PM
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Actually, it makes sense that Tuesday Night in Texas would be in December since it was a December PPV.

Jake cuts an awesome, super-creepy promo after slapping Elizabeth.
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Boner Kawanger
post Nov 19 2008, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE (mellowhopeful @ Nov 19 2008, 05:41 PM) *
Check out this dark match listing from This Tuesday...

The Harris Brothers (Don and Ron) defeated Brian Donahue and Brian Costello.
Sir Charles defeated Dale Wolfe.
Chris Walker defeated Brian Lee.
Chris Chavis defeated JW Storm.
Ric Flair defeated Roddy Piper.

Just so you know, Sir Charles is Charles Wright (Papa Shango, Godfather), Chris Chavis is Tatanka and JW Storm is Maxx Muscle (DDP's bodyguard). Funny to see future DOA members (Harris Bros, Brian Lee) working the rounds as well.

JW Storm actually showed up on the MSG house show that was up in September for Flair month. According to Venky, JW Storm is not Maxx Muscle and that it's just a Wikipedia urban legend.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 19 2008, 09:42 PM
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That was Bix, not me.
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Boner Kawanger
post Nov 19 2008, 10:08 PM
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Well shit you're not even Venky anymore.
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cabbageboy
post Nov 19 2008, 11:03 PM
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Yeah I remember Tues. in Texas having some decent stuff on it. Jake/Macho with the incredible post match angle and interview, UT/Hogan rematch is at least historically relevant, and Bret/Skinner is okay. Bulldog/Warlord is better than the WM match.

Anyway, this Survivor Series show is pretty dreary. As noted the entire show is a hype job for the Texas PPV, which is absurd given this is supposed to be a major show and the Tues. PPV is a proto IYH deal. The first match was going well until the boneheaded booking to have everyone DQed and leave Flair standing. The WWF just wouldn't put Flair over anyone, would they? And why was Bulldog the one man eliminated from his team when friggin VIRGIL was in the match?

I don't get why Flair would help UT win, aside from it being a heel helping a heel situation. I fail to see what Flair gains by it, since UT would be perhaps even more daunting to face down the line (if he had kept the belt).

I'm a big fan of Gorilla normally but he was off his game on this PPV. During the Rockers match he pondered why Shawn was walking to the back in disgust, apparently missing his elimination entirely. Of course he would go to the back....he got pinned.

Just wondering but were Jake and Macho advertised for this PPV? Cause if they were hyped as team captains in the main event people had every right to be pissed. It's not like Savage was in a hospital room with a bandage on his arm from the snake....he was there in the building and cut a goofy interview with Gene, seeming just fine. Ditto Roberts. It's insulting to not have those guys at least in the Survivor match with them simply brawling to the back for a DQ if nothing else. The rest of the booking could stay the same in the match.

Oh, and why didn't IRS take the Doomsday Device?
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Ed Wood Caulfiel...
post Nov 19 2008, 11:08 PM
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I remember the Savage promo after Jake slapped Elizabeth at Tuesday In Tuesday only because that promo scared the shit out of me as a four-year-old. I thought Savage was gonna come to my room at night and try to kill me. I swore off the WWF for about a year afterwards strictly because of Savage. I think I ordered the 1992 Royal Rumble and then didn't order anything else until WrestleMania IX. Everytime I saw the Macho Man on my TV, I literally ran to my room and hid because I didn't want him to find me.

I was a weird child growing up.

This post has been edited by Ed Wood Caulfield: Nov 19 2008, 11:09 PM
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 19 2008, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (Mattdotcom @ Nov 19 2008, 11:08 PM) *
Well shit you're not even Venky anymore.


I will be in 2 hours. This was some failed riff at Matt Young (and his misspelling of 'Oates').
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DrVenkman PhD
post Nov 20 2008, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE (cabbageboy @ Nov 20 2008, 12:03 AM) *
Anyway, this Survivor Series show is pretty dreary. As noted the entire show is a hype job for the Texas PPV, which is absurd given this is supposed to be a major show and the Tues. PPV is a proto IYH deal. The first match was going well until the boneheaded booking to have everyone DQed and leave Flair standing. The WWF just wouldn't put Flair over anyone, would they? And why was Bulldog the one man eliminated from his team when friggin VIRGIL was in the match?


I am a fan of the match but there certainly could have been more eliminations. I agree with you that historically it is a bit odd to see Bulldog fall and Virgil stand strong, but in context this was the biggest push of Virgil's career.

QUOTE
I don't get why Flair would help UT win, aside from it being a heel helping a heel situation. I fail to see what Flair gains by it, since UT would be perhaps even more daunting to face down the line (if he had kept the belt).


Flair didn't care for Hogan. That's about it, really.

QUOTE
I'm a big fan of Gorilla normally but he was off his game on this PPV. During the Rockers match he pondered why Shawn was walking to the back in disgust, apparently missing his elimination entirely. Of course he would go to the back....he got pinned.


This is made worse when during one of the "let's talk about This Tuesday in Texas!" segments as no one seems to have clued Monsoon in about his error and he STILL thinks Shawn walked off.

QUOTE
Just wondering but were Jake and Macho advertised for this PPV? Cause if they were hyped as team captains in the main event people had every right to be pissed. It's not like Savage was in a hospital room with a bandage on his arm from the snake....he was there in the building and cut a goofy interview with Gene, seeming just fine. Ditto Roberts. It's insulting to not have those guys at least in the Survivor match with them simply brawling to the back for a DQ if nothing else. The rest of the booking could stay the same in the match.


As a kid that was pretty new to watching wrestling, this is how I recall it all going down. They did the El Diablo/Roberts attacking Sid angle, then announced Sid was injured. They also had Roberts do the cobra thing with Savage. I forget exactly what they were saying on commentary, but you really got the impression Savage had to be reinstated to get at Jake. It was not to be, though, as Tunney just announced on Superstars (as seen at the beginning of this show) that Roberts was off the show and it would be 3 on 3.
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Enigma
post Nov 20 2008, 03:04 AM
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QUOTE (cabbageboy @ Nov 20 2008, 12:03 AM) *
Just wondering but were Jake and Macho advertised for this PPV? Cause if they were hyped as team captains in the main event people had every right to be pissed. It's not like Savage was in a hospital room with a bandage on his arm from the snake....he was there in the building and cut a goofy interview with Gene, seeming just fine. Ditto Roberts. It's insulting to not have those guys at least in the Survivor match with them simply brawling to the back for a DQ if nothing else. The rest of the booking could stay the same in the match.


This is how it went.

Randy Savage accepted his forced retirement. He was going to enjoy a settled down life as a married man and start a new career as a WWF color commentator (kayfabe). But of course, Jake Roberts and The Undertaker crashed the wedding reception, with Sid Justice making the save to run Roberts and Taker off. Obviously, since Savage was retired, he could not wrestle a sanctioned match against Roberts. He started a campaign to be reinstated by Jack Tunney so he could get to Jake. If you notice in the angle where he got bit by the cobra, the back of Savage's shirt he's wearing says "REINSTATE MACHO MAN!"

Since Sid was feuding with Roberts and Taker, they announced an elimination match at Survivor Series with Roberts and Sid as captains. It would be Roberts, I.R.S., and The Natural Disasters vs. Sid, The Big Bossman, and The Legion of Doom. At some point between the announcement and the PPV, Sid suffered a torn bicep and couldn't work the PPV. They wrote Sid out of the match on TV by having him look like he was about to do a squash match against some random masked ninja jobber named "El Diablo" on WWF Superstars. Before the match, Paul Bearer came out with a briefcase full of money to get Diablo to leave the ringside area. Diablo took the money and Undertaker came out to fight Sid. Diablo ran back out to the ring and joined Taker in the attack on Sid. Diablo took the mask off to reveal himself as Roberts. Roberts and Taker pummeled Sid until Jim Duggan randomly made the save.

Tunney announced that Sid could not compete at the PPV and would look for a replacement. Savage jumped at the chance to be reinstated to take Sid's place in the match at Survivor Series so he got get to Roberts. For about two weeks before the PPV, they kept planting the seed by asking, "Will Jack Tunney reinstate Randy Savage at Survivor Series and name him Sid's replacement?" They never once said he definitely would be reinstated nor be in the match, but they tried their best to make you believe they would. They even did some phone-in voting thing where people could call two different numbers to vote for or against Savage's reinstatement. They claimed 97% of the calls were supporting his reinstatement. Of course, the weekend before the Wednesday PPV, they did the angle with Savage being bitten by the cobra.

The PPV opened with Tunney explaining that Savage's reinstatement was effective immediately, but could not authorize him to compete at the show because of his injury, but he would face Roberts in a singles match at the earliest date possible. He then announced the match for "this Tuesday in Texas" (apparently the difference between being unable to wrestle and being fully healed from a venomous cobra bite is 6 days). Instead of replacing Sid, he removed Roberts from the tag match to make that one a 3-on-3 match.

After the first match, Gorilla Monsoon said they were working on "possible TV coverage" of the Tuesday in Texas show. After the second match, Monsoon announced it would be a PPV. After they came back from the 15-minute intermission (remember those?), Gene Okerlund had Tunney to announce that he was booking a Taker/Hogan WWF Title rematch for the show as well. After that announcement, the rest of the show was just two lame duck matches while Monsoon and Bobby Heenan turned the hype machine for Tuesday in Texas up to 11.

So yeah, they never expressly said Savage would be on this show, but they were really, REALLY hinting that Tunney would reinstate him so he could replace Sid in the tag match. Instead, it became a swerve for the Tuesday in Texas PPV that nobody bought.
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cabbageboy
post Nov 20 2008, 05:50 PM
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Thanks for clearing all that up. I am hazy on that 1991 period since I didn't watch wrestling in 1990 and 91, but started again for that Feb. 1992 SNME where Sid turned on Hogan and UT turned on Jake. That was a great show to get back into wrestling.

That said, all of the booking on TV leading to Survivor Series sounds like it rocked incredibly hard. I certainly knew of the snake angle, which is incredible stuff even now. The UT/Hogan/Flair angle they showed on the PPV was also terrific stuff. But these angles put tremendous heat on all the heels, with UT looking like a zombie psycho that can't be destroyed, Jake an evil maniac doing dastardly acts, Flair screwing Hogan en route to the title, etc. The key is that the heels eventually got their asses kicked properly.
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Enigma
post Nov 20 2008, 06:13 PM
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What I'd like to know is why exactly did Taker turn on Roberts.
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Ed Wood Caulfiel...
post Nov 20 2008, 07:34 PM
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I guess even undead zombies don't hit women.
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Enigma
post Nov 20 2008, 07:59 PM
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So Taker had no problem with exposing her to a fatal cobra bite at the wedding reception but slapping her is a no-no? I guess I'll just have to accept it.
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