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Bash at the Beach 2000, Hogan Vs. Jarrett, nothing can go wrong with that!
heyguesswhatidid
post Feb 25 2009, 07:23 AM
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Just started watching the show, and I just want to say, thank god they didn't blur Rey's face like they just did on the recent Legends of Wrestling DVD's.
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Enigma
post Feb 25 2009, 11:41 AM
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Card:

WCW Cruiserweight Championship
Juventud Guerrera vs. Lt. Loco

WCW Hardcore Championship Handicap Match
Norman Smiley & Ralphus vs. Big Vito

Wedding Gown Match
Daffney vs. Miss Hancock

WCW World Tag Team Championship
Kronic vs. Shawn Stasiak & Chuck Palumbo

Chris Kanyon vs. Booker T.

WCW United States Championship
Mike Awesome vs. Scott Steiner

Graveyard Match
Vampiro vs. The Demon

Shane Douglas vs. Buff Bagwell

WCW World Championship
Hulk Hogan vs. Jeff Jarrett

Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash

WCW World Championship
Booker T. vs. Jeff Jarrett
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Aero
post Feb 25 2009, 12:04 PM
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I know it just came on today, but how long is this going to be available until?
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Taxman
post Feb 25 2009, 01:26 PM
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Comcast says March 10th.

This post has been edited by Petrol CB: Feb 25 2009, 01:26 PM
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zappafrank
post Feb 25 2009, 01:28 PM
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Is Russo's promo on Hogan edited in any way (including censoring curse words, which didn't happen in the original))?

I remember going into the show predicting that somehow Booker T was going to walk out with title. I think I was only 1/2-joking, but wow, I also turned out to be right.

On Nitro the following night, Booker T introduced his wife, "Mrs. Huffman." It wasn't Sharmell, but was it really his wife at the time?

We also got Stevie Ray's face turn by congratulating Booker T, which then led to him joing the announce team with his awesome Froot Booty and Yaks commentary.
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Guest_Smues_*
post Feb 25 2009, 02:21 PM
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That segment on Nitro the next night was great, and really well done.

That is, until Scott Steiner showed up to beat the fuck out of Booker T with a baseball bat. I remember a lot of heat on the internet because it was a very white baseball bat, but I was just more concerned with how weak it made Booker look the day after he won the title.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 25 2009, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (zappafrank @ Feb 25 2009, 02:28 PM) *
Is Russo's promo on Hogan edited in any way (including censoring curse words, which didn't happen in the original))?


Everything - including ass, which had gone unbleeped most of the show outside of a few exceptions - is bleeped and that is naturally to be expected. It's a funny tirade though.

Tony referred to the opening bout as the "opening sports entertainment contest". I laughed. That came after a conversation where Madden said Major Gunns and Tygress should be allowed to stay at ringside and/or remove their tops since it's PPV, Scott Hudson said "This is wrestling! That's what it says on the maruqee!", and Madden corrected him to say it's "sports entertainment".
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cabbageboy
post Feb 25 2009, 10:51 PM
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Russo and WCW at that point didn't grasp the notion that their fans detested sports entertainment and wanted serious minded wrestling.

24/7 should show that entire hideous Summer of 2000 from WCW (GAB 2000, BATB 2000, and the truly epic New Blood Rising). Those shows are Russo at his most insane and self indulgent, they wrecked a company that was already tanking, and I love each of them for all the wrong reasons.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 26 2009, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (cabbageboy @ Feb 25 2009, 11:51 PM) *
Russo and WCW at that point didn't grasp the notion that their fans detested sports entertainment and wanted serious minded wrestling.


Yeah, it's really confusing and I can't possibly tell what fan base they were trying to appeal to. It's always been my understanding that WCW fans were not Federation fans because WCW had always been "the wrestling" company. Changing direction to straight up 'sports entertainment' alienates the previous fanbase, but it comes off as 2nd rate sports entertainment compared to what McMahon was doing, so it's not going to steal away any of the Fed fans either. It's beating a dead horse, but it's really no wonder this company went out of business (and how sad it is that a lot of the above could be describing TNA right now too).
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cabbageboy
post Feb 26 2009, 11:08 AM
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Bear this in mind as well. Once Russo left the WWF the Fed moved away from the goofy sports entertainment and more into a serious wrestling product. Of course one could argue that WCW basically gave them a ton of great workers so the WWF could put on that sort of show in 2000.

It's time to look at the hokey sports entertainment style of wrestling TV for what it is: A clever way to disguise an untalented roster. It worked in the late 90s WWF because by and large the roster was mediocre and the top guys were great at doing the silly skits and promos. Ironically enough someone like Bill Watts (minus the lame rule changes) would have been a nice choice for WCW circa 1999 in a way that he wasn't in 1992. Someone to kick guys in the ass and make them work hard, putting on shows much different from the WWF. Russo however wanted to bring a watered down WWF sports entertainment style to WCW and it was the exact thing fans didn't want.
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Boner Kawanger
post Feb 26 2009, 11:11 AM
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Don't forget that the very next night they immediately shifted Booker T from GI Bro to a total Rock ripoff
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CubbyBr
post Feb 26 2009, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE
Bear this in mind as well. Once Russo left the WWF the Fed moved away from the goofy sports entertainment and more into a serious wrestling product. Of course one could argue that WCW basically gave them a ton of great workers so the WWF could put on that sort of show in 2000.

It's time to look at the hokey sports entertainment style of wrestling TV for what it is: A clever way to disguise an untalented roster. It worked in the late 90s WWF because by and large the roster was mediocre and the top guys were great at doing the silly skits and promos. Ironically enough someone like Bill Watts (minus the lame rule changes) would have been a nice choice for WCW circa 1999 in a way that he wasn't in 1992. Someone to kick guys in the ass and make them work hard, putting on shows much different from the WWF. Russo however wanted to bring a watered down WWF sports entertainment style to WCW and it was the exact thing fans didn't want.


Oh give me a fucking break. It's not Russo that wanted to bring in a watered down WWF to WCW...it was WCW executives who hired Russo to put on the type of product he was putting on. How much sense would it make to bring in Russo and tell him, "you know what, why don't you put on a Bill Watts type of wrestling show." That's just not the type of product he knew how to do. And WCW executives should have realized it. It's like hiring Big Show and telling him to go out and put on a Chris Benoit-style match.

And as far as a Bill Watt's type show...they had something pretty much close to that from August-October 99' when Sullivan was booking, right before Russo came in. The cruserweights were putting on great matches, Benoit/Malenko/Saturn were tearing it up and DDP/Raven were putting on great matches. And guess what...it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, was it?

Sports entertainment style of TV being a clever way to disguise an untalented roster? Say what you want about it but if it wasn't for that style of show, the WWE would not exist today.

They had a pretty talented roster in 1996 and most were putting on good matches. Bret, Owen, Shawn, Austin, Taker, Sid (who was decent at the time), Vader, and Rock were all in the company. But at the time the company was in the toilet. Why? Because despite all of those guys being good workers, no one gave a crap about them because the storylines weren't designed in a way to make you want to emotionally invest in them.
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cabbageboy
post Feb 26 2009, 03:59 PM
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I was referring more to the WWF's roster in the late 1990s, not 1996. And comparing WCW's 1992 output to the dreck that Sullivan booked in late 1999 is laughable.

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zappafrank
post Feb 26 2009, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (CubbyBr @ Feb 26 2009, 03:44 PM) *
And as far as a Bill Watt's type show...they had something pretty much close to that from August-October 99' when Sullivan was booking, right before Russo came in. The cruserweights were putting on great matches, Benoit/Malenko/Saturn were tearing it up and DDP/Raven were putting on great matches. And guess what...it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, was it?



Um, Raven was out of WCW by that point...
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Hunter's Tor...
post Feb 26 2009, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (CubbyBr @ Feb 26 2009, 03:44 PM) *
It's not Russo that wanted to bring in a watered down WWF to WCW...

(IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I stopped here as the laughter made it impossible to continue.
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Boner Kawanger
post Feb 26 2009, 04:33 PM
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Heeeey, The Cat's monitor isn't plugged into anything.
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PILLS! PILLS...
post Feb 26 2009, 04:43 PM
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He never learned how to read.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 26 2009, 05:10 PM
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Apparently my middle of the night ramblings / musings about how annoyed this show made me and why it reminded me of TNA got published. That wasn't really my intention, but I'll take it.
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commie_050
post Feb 26 2009, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (CubbyBr @ Feb 26 2009, 04:44 PM) *
QUOTE
Bear this in mind as well. Once Russo left the WWF the Fed moved away from the goofy sports entertainment and more into a serious wrestling product. Of course one could argue that WCW basically gave them a ton of great workers so the WWF could put on that sort of show in 2000.

It's time to look at the hokey sports entertainment style of wrestling TV for what it is: A clever way to disguise an untalented roster. It worked in the late 90s WWF because by and large the roster was mediocre and the top guys were great at doing the silly skits and promos. Ironically enough someone like Bill Watts (minus the lame rule changes) would have been a nice choice for WCW circa 1999 in a way that he wasn't in 1992. Someone to kick guys in the ass and make them work hard, putting on shows much different from the WWF. Russo however wanted to bring a watered down WWF sports entertainment style to WCW and it was the exact thing fans didn't want.


Oh give me a fucking break. It's not Russo that wanted to bring in a watered down WWF to WCW...it was WCW executives who hired Russo to put on the type of product he was putting on. How much sense would it make to bring in Russo and tell him, "you know what, why don't you put on a Bill Watts type of wrestling show." That's just not the type of product he knew how to do. And WCW executives should have realized it. It's like hiring Big Show and telling him to go out and put on a Chris Benoit-style match.

And as far as a Bill Watt's type show...they had something pretty much close to that from August-October 99' when Sullivan was booking, right before Russo came in. The cruserweights were putting on great matches, Benoit/Malenko/Saturn were tearing it up and DDP/Raven were putting on great matches. And guess what...it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, was it?

Sports entertainment style of TV being a clever way to disguise an untalented roster? Say what you want about it but if it wasn't for that style of show, the WWE would not exist today.

They had a pretty talented roster in 1996 and most were putting on good matches. Bret, Owen, Shawn, Austin, Taker, Sid (who was decent at the time), Vader, and Rock were all in the company. But at the time the company was in the toilet. Why? Because despite all of those guys being good workers, no one gave a crap about them because the storylines weren't designed in a way to make you want to emotionally invest in them.


I'd check out the match listings for Road Wild and Fall Brawl 1999. IIRC, they were probably two of the worst PPVs of all time. In fact, I would argue the WCW product improved slightly when Russo came in October. But by that point, WWF had basically converted anyone who was willing to watch their product. Russo's involvement in 1999 can be defended, but his return in 2000 can't be. By that point, WCW should have known it needed to provide an alternative.
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Hunter's Tor...
post Feb 26 2009, 06:22 PM
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Russo gave WCW fans a product he knew they didn't want. How can that be defended?
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Boner Kawanger
post Feb 26 2009, 06:37 PM
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You mean no one wanted to pay $30 to watch Russo and Jarrett act like babies for forty minutes? I remember when all this happened and how badly I wanted to see it. How wrong was I.

PS I hate Mark Madden worse than Jarrett and Russo. These shoot segments are hell.
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CubbyBr
post Feb 26 2009, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE
Russo gave WCW fans a product he knew they didn't want. How can that be defended?


Russo gave them the product he knew how to produce. If WCW needed a more wrestling-based product to turn itself around then Bill Busch should have been smart enough to know that Russo wasn't the guy to produce it. Again, what sense does it make to bring in Russo and than ask him to do the complete opposite of what he knows how to do? It's insane.
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Diamonddust
post Feb 26 2009, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (CubbyBr @ Feb 26 2009, 07:40 PM) *
QUOTE
Russo gave WCW fans a product he knew they didn't want. How can that be defended?


Russo gave them the product he knew how to produce. If WCW needed a more wrestling-based product to turn itself around then Bill Busch should have been smart enough to know that Russo wasn't the guy to produce it. Again, what sense does it make to bring in Russo and than ask him to do the complete opposite of what he knows how to do? It's insane.


To be honest... Russo didn't really know how to produce that product well enough without someone over his shoulder (Read: Vince McMahon) striking out the slew of bad ideas that would come up while keeping the occasional good ideas.

Besides, Bill Busch and the rest of the Time Warner people didn't give a crap about wrestling anyway. They wanted it off the books so it's not like they were willing to put a lot of effort into the product at that point.
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Hunter's Tor...
post Feb 26 2009, 08:10 PM
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While you can't blame the monkey when it's the organ grinder who is retarded, it's still the monkey you kick when he throws his shit at you.
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Enigma
post Feb 26 2009, 08:35 PM
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WCW made Vince Russo a millionaire (yes, they gave him a 2-year, $2.5 million contract) to turn WCW into what the WWF was. They knew what they were doing and WCW knew what it was getting.
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KingPK
post Feb 26 2009, 09:36 PM
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Even with the ability to FF, that show was a fucking chore to watch. And why do they bleep almost every instance of the word "ass" except for when Hogan is yelling at Jarrett?
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Enigma
post Feb 27 2009, 01:38 AM
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QUOTE (KingPK @ Feb 26 2009, 10:36 PM) *
Even with the ability to FF, that show was a fucking chore to watch. And why do they bleep almost every instance of the word "ass" except for when Hogan is yelling at Jarrett?


Because WWE is TV-PG now, brother.
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BUTT
post Feb 27 2009, 05:14 AM
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QUOTE (Enigma @ Feb 26 2009, 09:35 PM) *
WCW made Vince Russo a millionaire (yes, they gave him a 2-year, $2.5 million contract)

He was not making anywhere near that. You learned that from Keith, didn't you.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 27 2009, 06:01 AM
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I think Enigma's comment was posted first.
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Bigelow34
post Feb 27 2009, 09:21 AM
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The funniest part of it all was the WCW cheerleaders like Bob Ryder claiming Russo's ship jump to be the death knell for the WWF's hot streak. As soon as he jumped, tons of stories starting being written about how Russo was behind everything positive the WWF had done since 1997...even though clowns like him had been crapping on the Attitude Era the whole time. All of a sudden Russo was the savior though.
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