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Bash at the Beach 2000, Hogan Vs. Jarrett, nothing can go wrong with that!
DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 27 2009, 09:29 AM
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I talked to a lot of people like that on IRC too. It was all "ha ha, Russo is the only reason your precious WWF has done so well! WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW?".
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Diamonddust
post Feb 27 2009, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE (DrVenkman PhD @ Feb 27 2009, 09:29 AM) *
I talked to a lot of people like that on IRC too. It was all "ha ha, Russo is the only reason your precious WWF has done so well! WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW?".


I must admit... I was naive enough to think that Russo would do a good job in WCW... boy, was I dumb about that. As mentioned before, Russo's fatal flaw was that in WCW... he didn't have anyone over his shoulder picking out the occasional good idea from the mountain of horrible ideas that he'd "come up" with. He also didn't have two white-hot stars to work with as he did with Austin and The Rock.
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DrVenkman PhD
post Feb 27 2009, 09:40 AM
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I will also admit I left out the part where I wondered what WWE would do without him too but from the start I thought he would be a bad fit for WCW.

For anyone interested - and a warning, I never intended this to be published and I think I come off as a ranting looney - http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/8488/
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cabbageboy
post Feb 27 2009, 10:02 AM
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I never had any real thoughts about WCW as far as Russo was concerned. Never thought they would overtake the WWF, but I also didn't think they would go under either. But bear this in mind, the WWF did actually struggle a bit in late 1999 after Russo left. Those shows aren't very interesting until the Steph heel turn that formed the McMahon/Helmsley regime.

Let's face it, from mid April 1999 until Oct. 1999 WCW was so horribly bad, so lacking in redeeming value, that it would have been hard for Russo to do worse. What the hell, I still don't think he did. Russo's stuff was at least car wreck level hilarious...that 1999 era WCW stuff was just awful on every level and wasn't even so bad it was good. It was the Hummer angle and the No Limit Soldiers, etc.
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Bigelow34
post Feb 27 2009, 11:27 AM
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WWF stumbled a bit because they had to totally rewrite a month or so of TV. Russo said he had already written that far out. They had to totally rebook the Steph/Test stuff as well.

That was WCW's chance to quickly strike, but they had damaged the brand so bad that they needed more time than that to do so. Russo was a band aid on a huge gash. They needed the time and support from Time Warner to rebuild the product.
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Diamonddust
post Feb 27 2009, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE (Bigelow34 @ Feb 27 2009, 11:27 AM) *
They needed the time and support from Time Warner to rebuild the product.


Ultimately, the support from Time Warner was never going to be there.
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cabbageboy
post Feb 27 2009, 11:39 AM
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24/7 needs to show New Blood Rising next month to follow up on the "promise" of BATB 2000. That show is peak Russo: Goofy matches, guys going against the booking and doing shoots, gimmicks galore, announcers breaking character, the whole Storm/Awesome misfire of a match. It has it all.

By the time Fall Brawl 2000 rolled around Russo was basically out of gas as a booker in terms of wacky ideas, but that show at least had a good Goldberg/Steiner match. Halloween Havoc 2000 however was a nightmare and Russo went home shortly after.
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King Kamala
post Feb 27 2009, 11:39 AM
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I wasn't sure what to expect from Russo's first run but when Russo and Bischoff combined forces in April '00, I thought for certain that they couldn't fail! Given time, I thought they could overcome the WWF. I thought there was no way that WCW could lose with the guy behind the nWo and the guy behind Austin-McMahon joining forces...but oh they did.

I watched this show a few months ago as part of that DailyMotion roundtable we used to do...it was bad. Not even funny bad for the most part (though Vampiro-Demon is a notable exception to that rule) but just plain bad-bad. Booker T's matches are good at least. And I vaguely remember the opener being decent. That's about it.
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zappafrank
post Feb 27 2009, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE (Bigelow34 @ Feb 27 2009, 10:21 AM) *
The funniest part of it all was the WCW cheerleaders like Bob Ryder claiming Russo's ship jump to be the death knell for the WWF's hot streak. As soon as he jumped, tons of stories starting being written about how Russo was behind everything positive the WWF had done since 1997...even though clowns like him had been crapping on the Attitude Era the whole time. All of a sudden Russo was the savior though.



Haha, Bob Ryder. I stopped going to 1wrestling b/c of all the damn pop-ups.
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Dr. Death Randy ...
post Feb 27 2009, 05:17 PM
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It went a whole 20 minutes OVER! Just like Jarrett in the first World title match... DIG IT!

This post has been edited by Dr. Death Randy Savage: Feb 27 2009, 05:17 PM
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Dr. Death Randy ...
post Feb 27 2009, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Dr. Death Randy Savage @ Feb 27 2009, 06:17 PM) *
It went a whole 20 minutes OVER! Just like Jarrett in the first World title match... DIG IT!



Why can't I edit my post? DIG IT!
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Boner Kawanger
post Feb 27 2009, 05:34 PM
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Because it only took one post for your act to get stale
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Guest_Smues_*
post Feb 27 2009, 09:35 PM
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Mark Madden: "If Russo was a woman I'd marry him."
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cabbageboy
post Feb 27 2009, 11:02 PM
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The problem Russo had is that he just doesn't have a clue how to build anything. In the WWF it's not a problem because they have clear cut shows like the Rumble and WM that forced stuff to be built. They basically had to build to Austin/Michaels or Austin/Rock, or UT vs. Kane. Or at least if Russo wanted Taker to beat Kane down on Raw someone could pull him aside and say "No Vince, we need to save this for WM."

Russo is good at coming up with something for undercard guys to do. Nearly every segment of a Russo show does at least have an issue going on in it, though it might not be a good issue. If someone could get a Russo/Heyman tandem booking team it might produce some results, since Heyman could have the main event picture in mind of what to build for the future, while Russo could handle the midcarders. Someone with sanity would need to be there to overrule both though.
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Ed Wood Caulfiel...
post Feb 28 2009, 11:09 AM
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According to Foley Is Good, the last WWF show Vince Russo wrote for was really terrible. Apparently in one segment, Mankind was going to ask Rock to marry him.
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Guest_Smues_*
post Feb 28 2009, 02:05 PM
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Ok, so we've learned that people will defend Russo, so here's my challenge: somebody honestly defend Mark Madden. And not his column or anything he did on the web, just tell me why he wasn't FUCKING AWFUL in every way on the broadcasts. Every nine years after his WCW run I still hate Madden and think he was awful, and that was without having to have heard him in a long time. Watching BATB was like a crash course in why Madden should be taken out back and shot, and he was somehow worse than I remembered.

So tell me, did ANYBODY like this guy?


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CubbyBr
post Feb 28 2009, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE
Ok, so we've learned that people will defend Russo, so here's my challenge: somebody honestly defend Mark Madden. And not his column or anything he did on the web, just tell me why he wasn't FUCKING AWFUL in every way on the broadcasts. Every nine years after his WCW run I still hate Madden and think he was awful, and that was without having to have heard him in a long time. Watching BATB was like a crash course in why Madden should be taken out back and shot, and he was somehow worse than I remembered.

So tell me, did ANYBODY like this guy?


I thought he was a horrible commentator but I found him mildly amusing on occasion. I laughed pretty hard when he get his ass handed to him by Tank Abbot.

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Guest_Smues_*
post Feb 28 2009, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (CubbyBr @ Feb 28 2009, 11:23 AM) *
QUOTE
Ok, so we've learned that people will defend Russo, so here's my challenge: somebody honestly defend Mark Madden. And not his column or anything he did on the web, just tell me why he wasn't FUCKING AWFUL in every way on the broadcasts. Every nine years after his WCW run I still hate Madden and think he was awful, and that was without having to have heard him in a long time. Watching BATB was like a crash course in why Madden should be taken out back and shot, and he was somehow worse than I remembered.

So tell me, did ANYBODY like this guy?


I thought he was a horrible commentator but I found him mildly amusing on occasion. I laughed pretty hard when he get his ass handed to him by Tank Abbot.


Abbot smashing Madden was great, including the sign in the crowd the next week "Tank you for shutting up Madden"
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Bruiser Chong
post Feb 28 2009, 05:14 PM
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The second part of the show is one of the most confusing collection of clusterfucks we've seen in the 2000s. Starting with this bizarre match in the graveyard, the JJ/Hogan "shoot," the Goldberg turn, etc.

What was the deal with this Hogan thing, anyway? I'm sure I've heard the story before, but what was the motive for it?

The best part about this show is the commercial video was put out in limited numbers and subsequently can easily get $300+ on eBay.
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cabbageboy
post Feb 28 2009, 05:22 PM
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Only the sickest bastard on earth would spend 300 bucks for this PPV. Anyway from what I recall the whole idea would have been for Hogan to walk off and then Bischoff would bring him back with his belt and he would do a unification with Booker (or whoever) in a young vs. old feud. Bischoff would lead the old guys, Russo the young blood.

I watched this again today. What a marvelous bunch of crap this show is. I had totally fogotten Steiner's antics on this PPV. What was up with him helping Goldberg and turning on Nash? This bizarre alliance didn't last long though since that epic 3 way happened at NBR.
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Diamonddust
post Feb 28 2009, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (Smues @ Feb 28 2009, 02:05 PM) *
Ok, so we've learned that people will defend Russo, so here's my challenge: somebody honestly defend Mark Madden. And not his column or anything he did on the web, just tell me why he wasn't FUCKING AWFUL in every way on the broadcasts. Every nine years after his WCW run I still hate Madden and think he was awful, and that was without having to have heard him in a long time. Watching BATB was like a crash course in why Madden should be taken out back and shot, and he was somehow worse than I remembered.

So tell me, did ANYBODY like this guy?


Madden is a fat ball of pure, concentrated horrible. Seeing him every so often on the NFL Network' "Top 10" program causes me to grow nauseous. He's every bad sports-commentator stereotype rolled up into one pile of lard.
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Enigma
post Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (cabbageboy @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) *
Only the sickest bastard on earth would spend 300 bucks for this PPV. Anyway from what I recall the whole idea would have been for Hogan to walk off and then Bischoff would bring him back with his belt and he would do a unification with Booker (or whoever) in a young vs. old feud. Bischoff would lead the old guys, Russo the young blood.

I watched this again today. What a marvelous bunch of crap this show is. I had totally fogotten Steiner's antics on this PPV. What was up with him helping Goldberg and turning on Nash? This bizarre alliance didn't last long though since that epic 3 way happened at NBR.


If I recall, they were also supposed to split up the shows, sort of like what eventually happened with Raw and Smackdown. Nitro was supposed to be controlled by Bischoff and the veterans while Thunder was supposed to be controlled by Russo and the new guys.
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bob_barron
post Feb 28 2009, 08:13 PM
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My friend paid $80 for this show and got it signed by Booker T. Booker T looked mesmerised when he signed it
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CBright7831
post Feb 28 2009, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (ATangerineTheSizeofaRuby @ Feb 26 2009, 07:37 PM) *
You mean no one wanted to pay $30 to watch Russo and Jarrett act like babies for forty minutes? I remember when all this happened and how badly I wanted to see it. How wrong was I.

PS I hate Mark Madden worse than Jarrett and Russo. These shoot segments are hell.

It should also be of note that Bobby Heenan was replaced by Mark Madden and released in November of 2000.
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cabbageboy
post Feb 28 2009, 10:50 PM
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Madden could certainly be an obnoxious goof but I will say that his commentary with Stevie Ray on the Mayhem 2000 PPV was hilarious. It was like hearing two smark fans do nothing but trash the show and the promotion while Schiavone was helpless to stop any of it.

The "shoot" segments on WCW PPVs from 2000 are such idiocy. Russo didn't realize the key to an angle like that is to not have announcers screaming constantly about "OMG, this isn't in the script! It's not on the format sheet!" It only reinforces what we're seeing is fake.
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MillenniumMan831
post Feb 28 2009, 11:03 PM
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My favorite Madden/Stevie exchange came during an AWOL/Bam Bam match after Wall hit the heart punch.

Madden: A shot in the heart, AND THE WALL IS TO BLAME!
Stevie: Madden, you give wrestling a bad name.
Madden: (muttering) I didn't think you'd get the Bon Jovi reference.
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King Kamala
post Mar 2 2009, 12:02 PM
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The hatred of Madden isn't helped by the fact that he replaced Heenan. Sure, Heenan had burned out long ago but I think anybody would take a washed up, quarter assing it Heenan over Mark Madden.

Though I think the commentary team with him, Tony Schiavone, and Stevie Ray may be the greatest bad commentary team of all time. Up there with any commentary team involving Dusty Rhodes.
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Diamonddust
post Mar 2 2009, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE (King Kamala Classic @ Mar 2 2009, 12:02 PM) *
The hatred of Madden isn't helped by the fact that he replaced Heenan. Sure, Heenan had burned out long ago but I think anybody would take a washed up, quarter assing it Heenan over Mark Madden.

Though I think the commentary team with him, Tony Schiavone, and Stevie Ray may be the greatest bad commentary team of all time. Up there with any commentary team involving Dusty Rhodes.


Hell, I'd take Dusty Rhodes on commentary by himself before I took Mark Madden. As mentioned before, Madden is every bad sports-radio commentator stereotype rolled up into one.
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Boner Kawanger
post Mar 2 2009, 06:29 PM
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TONY! TONY! DEY BE BREAKIN' WAY FROM DAT SCRIP I DONE WROTE FOR 'EM IN DA BACK! DEY TAKIN' IT TO THE PAY WINDA EARLY!! MY REAL NAME IS VIRGIL RUNNELS AND MY SON WAS GOLDUST IN DA DUBBA DUB EF, EF YOU WEEEEL.

I can't imagine what Dusty would have been like on commentary in Russo's WCW.
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jericho4life
post Mar 2 2009, 06:38 PM
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Listening to Tony describe the Vampiro/Demon action was hilarious. His mono "He was in a tree". Then the "You have to survive all elements" deadpan as those two are splashing around and dunking each other in the water. So bad, it was funny.

Tony describing the word "Shoot" after Russo cracked me up as well.

A must see - just fast forward through 90% of it.
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