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Make contentious statements, And i'll tear you a new asshole
Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:20 PM
Post #31





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QUOTE(goodhelmet @ April 06 2002,18:15)
Statement: Neil Young's catalog of music is more profound and meaningful than anything ever composed by Metallica

Uh...I think we're going to have to invite some more people to this thread.  It's all common ground at this point.

Although my Keith Richards statement was never contested.  Eh.  I don't know that it would have done any good anyway.  Jagger would have gotten G.E. Smith or someone to fill in and would have proceeded to piss on his legacy as scheduled.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:24 PM
Post #32





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lol. And to clarify, so there are no hard feelings I love 'My Aim Is True' and despise Sting's solo career. Seriously.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:27 PM
Post #33





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QUOTE(goodhelmet @ April 06 2002,18:24)
lol. And to clarify, so there are no hard feelings I love 'My Aim Is True' and despise Sting's solo career. Seriously.

Thank god.  I meant everything I said, though.  I might have exaggerated the Elton John hate for affect, but other than that it was all genuine.

This thread isn't deceased just yet, though.  If anyone else wants to participate, I'm always more than happy to argue about music.
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Guest_redbaron51_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:31 PM
Post #34





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Statement: Tool is the antithesis. They produce mainstream music, but keep there music integrity.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:43 PM
Post #35





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QUOTE(redbaron51 @ April 06 2002,18:31)
Statement: Tool is the antithesis. They produce mainstream music, but keep there music integrity.

Rebuttal: Radiohead does the same thing but better.  Kid A debuted at #1 on Billboard and Amnesiac debuted at #2.  Both are extremely uncommercial, but released and heavily promoted by a major label.  I certainly respect bands like Tool and System of a Down for making uncommercial music that succeeds against all odds, but they're just not my cup of tea.

Statement: People who die without having heard a Nick Drake album never really lived at all.
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Guest_redbaron51_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:47 PM
Post #36





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Never heard of him, but give me a few songs i can download then I'll give you an opinion.

Statement: To be popular in the States you have to sell out
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 09:56 PM
Post #37





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QUOTE(redbaron51 @ April 06 2002,18:47)
Never heard of him, but give me a few songs i can download then I'll give you an opinion.

Statement: To be popular in the States you have to sell out

Try "Pink Moon" or "Things Behind the Sun."  They're both from his utterly fantastic final album Pink Moon.    It's late 60s-early 70s British folk music. If that doesn't sound appealing to you, it might be something of a disappointment.

Rebuttal: This is generally true, but really depends on what your definition of "selling out" is.  A lot of people think you've sold out the moment you accept cash for anything related to your music.  A different school of thought is that signing to a major label is selling out.  In my opinion, you don't sell out until you make music you know is inferior just to be successful.  With that as the definition, your statement is flawed.  A lot of bands have gotten big without abandoning their ethics or having the quality of their music suffer to appeal to a mainstream audience.  It happens.  Just not often enough.

Statement: "Baby One More Time" is actually a well-crafted, thoroughly enjoyable pop song that people pretend to hate because they don't want to look uncool.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 6 2002, 10:11 PM
Post #38





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No "baby One More Time" is trite trash sung by a talentless hack with a boobjob. She should be posing nude in some smut mag, not dancing and lip-synching to a bunch of pre-pubescent pimply faced girls. If you want a perfectly crafted pop song, look no further than McCartney's 'Maybe I'm Amazed' or Raspberries 'Go All the Way'.
As for Nick Drake, I have heard alot of music in my time, never heard Nick Drake, yet still think I have lived a full life if I were to die tomorrow. But I am intrigued.


STATEMENT: Def Leppard had a solid catalog of music and are unfairly bashed as 80's glam rock
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 10:39 PM
Post #39





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QUOTE(goodhelmet @ April 06 2002,19:11)
STATEMENT: Def Leppard had a solid catalog of music and are unfairly bashed as 80's glam rock

Ooooh...you no good motherfucker.  I respect and like you, Goodhelmet, but no one (and Kinetic means no one) praises Def Leppard in my presence without receiving a wicked tongue-lashing in return.  I hate no band more than Def Leppard.  Not Kiss, not Journey, not REO Speedwagon...no one.  Def Leppard's music is just as lame as rock music can ever aspire to be.  Their production is like the actual sound of laminate; it's as if all of the instruments have been covered a thick layer of plastic so that nothing that doesn't sound completely artificial can get in or out.  I'm so perturbed that you brought them up...I can't even think straight.  You've broken my brain.

 Statement: When John Lennon made that controversial statement, the Beatles were, in fact, bigger than Jesus.  Furthermore, Homer Simpons' band, The Be Sharps, naming their second album Bigger Than Jesus is the funniest joke in the history of mankind.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 6 2002, 10:55 PM
Post #40





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Dude, you are bringing on the heartache, can't you see YEAH!!!

As for the homer Simpson album, the Be Sharps are maybe bigger than Brigham Young but only the Beatles are bigger than Jesus, so the joke was a great reference to a part of beatles lore and enjoyable to a Beatles fan such as myself BUT not the best joke ever. The scary thing is that the Beatles were definitely grabbing the attention of the young moreso than Jesus at the time. Too bad it was taken out of context from the original interview.

STATEMENT: For all of their pomp and arrogance, KISS is probably one of the top five influential bands of all-time
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 11:06 PM
Post #41





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QUOTE(goodhelmet @ April 06 2002,19:55)
STATEMENT: For all of their pomp and arrogance, KISS is probably one of the top five influential bands of all-time

I can't really dispute this.  But, as I argued here a few weeks ago, you really have to look at the calibre of bands KISS influenced.  They were clearly a major influence on 80s ass rock.  Their influence has been carried over into the new millennium by such groundbreaking acts as Mudvayne, Mushroomhead, and Slipknot.  So while they may have been influential, they most likely didn't influence anyone that's worth anything.


Statement: Fiona Apple is a much better singer and songwriter than Tori Amos.  

In this space, I'd like to send a heartfelt plea out to my fellow SmarkBoarders to join this thread.  Do I have to say the words?  Do I have to tell the truth?  Do I have to shout it out?  How must I prove to you how good we are together?  Do I have to say the words?

EDIT: Upon further review, that's Bryan Adams.  Forget I said anything.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 6 2002, 11:13 PM
Post #42





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I would say both Fiona and Tori are both pretentious, masochistic waifs who spent too much time smoking dope and listening to Nick Drake albums (I listened to it but didn't really get into it). Each has exactly one song that is worth a shit, slow Like Honey and God respectively. I think the chick from frente blows both away in terms of music and song content (listen to cuscutlan).

STATEMENT: The Monkees are a much maligned 60's band who had some of the best pop songs of ANY era
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 6 2002, 11:19 PM
Post #43





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QUOTE(goodhelmet @ April 06 2002,20:13)
STATEMENT: The Monkees are a much maligned 60's band who had some of the best pop songs of ANY era

Too bad they didn't write any of them.  From a purely pop standpoint, the Monkees are perfectly acceptable.  But when you consider the decade that they came from, their music just seems ridiculously trite by comparison.  You don't need me to school you on British invasion bands, but one that's been criminally overlooked is The Zombies.  "Odyssey and Oracle" is the real rock of ages.  

Statement: Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere is Neil Young's best album.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 6 2002, 11:43 PM
Post #44





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I have to agree the Zombies rock!!!!

As for Neil Young's best album, Sleeps with Angels is easily Neil's high point. Everybody Knows is a respectable debut but his seventies and nineties albums have content that surpasses anything done on his first (save for Running Dry and Down by the River. Not a big fan of Cinnamon Girl). Change Your Mind from Sleeps W/ Angels is easily Neil's highlight. Everything from Harvest or Harvest Moon reaches a higher plateau.
(And sorry bro, Cuddly Toy written by harry Nillson and Saturday's Child are classics)

STATEMENT: Joan Baez deserves to have her melodramatic throat ripped out and replaced with dusty Springfields
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Guest_CoreyLazarus416_*
post Apr 7 2002, 01:53 AM
Post #45





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Statement:
More people would join in this post if they fucking cared at all for it.
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Guest_Shaved Bear_*
post Apr 7 2002, 02:05 AM
Post #46





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QUOTE(CoreyLazarus416 @ April 06 2002,22:53)
Statement:
More people would join in this post if they fucking cared at all for it.

agreed plus i cant think of any statements, nor can i defend any, without being opinionated and not proving it
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 7 2002, 03:53 AM
Post #47





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QUOTE(Shaved Bear @ April 06 2002,23:05)
QUOTE(CoreyLazarus416 @ April 06 2002,22:53)
Statement:
More people would join in this post if they fucking cared at all for it.

agreed plus i cant think of any statements, nor can i defend any, without being opinionated and not proving it

This is a message board, not a research project.  No one has to prove anything because it's all based on opinion.  Saying that Triple H has been completely terrible since returning is an opinion, not a fact.  You couldn't possibly prove it even if you wanted to, but that doesn't stop people from saying it.  So, really, lighten the fuck up.  

My thread rules, Lazarus.  What is it that you object to, exactly?  I knew I should have made a statement about Swedish metal.  That was next on my list, I swear.
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Guest_goodhelmet_*
post Apr 7 2002, 04:13 AM
Post #48





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Hey Kinetic, I'm down with this thread man. It's good to know people can be cirtical and appreciate different forms of music and not pigeonhole themselves to one specific subgenre
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Guest_redbaron51_*
post Apr 7 2002, 09:34 AM
Post #49





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but some people don't know who Joan Baez is. Like me.
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Guest_CoreyLazarus416_*
post Apr 7 2002, 05:09 PM
Post #50





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redbaron just summed up another entire point.

Personally, I don't care if you talk about whatever you want to. To each their own, ya know? But I read it all, and I can honestly say that most of the bands you're talking about I couldn't give 2 shits about, nor the topics, so that's why I didn't reply. I have to feel that it's the same for others when they don't reply...
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Guest_Mystery Eskimo_*
post Apr 8 2002, 05:31 AM
Post #51





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Here's a contentious statement: 90% of female artists suck immensly.
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Guest_Anorak_*
post Apr 8 2002, 06:59 AM
Post #52





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I would say that's a bit harsh but i agree there isn't enough good female artists out there. There are a lot of pretty bad female artists out there, especially the annoyingly quirky singer songwriters like Morrisette, Amos, etc, there almost seems to be too many lyrical cliches in this type of angsty female artist. A lot of female artists have decent enough voices but don't produce anything worthwhile musically. All the female artists i like have country/folk background in their music. Lucinda Williams, Emmylou Harris, Gillian Welch and Niko Case are all great in my opinion. The fact i can't come up with more than 4 examples probably says i concur with your opinion somewhat.

Since people are mentioning sixties bands how about a further nomination in the overlooked/underappreciated category? For my money The Kinks were one of the finest bands of the decade and were an important band in British pop music who don't seem to get much posthumous recognition these days.
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Guest_Mystery Eskimo_*
post Apr 8 2002, 07:05 AM
Post #53





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For underappreciated, I shall mention Mr Elvis Costello, one of the finest British songwriters of all time, who sadly is probably best known by most people for doing that godawful Notting Hill song.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 8 2002, 01:25 PM
Post #54





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QUOTE(Mystery Eskimo @ April 08 2002,05:05)
For underappreciated, I shall mention Mr Elvis Costello, one of the finest British songwriters of all time, who sadly is probably best known by most people for doing that godawful Notting Hill song.

You're preaching to the choir on that one.  Several people here have confessed their love for Elvis, though, and that fills my heart with joy.  If Bob Dylan had never been born, Costello would be my personal favorite songwriter.

The Kinks are great, and for the number of times I read their name in Brit pop-related articles over the last ten years, I'd say people recognize that fact.  They're not revered like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, or the Who are but...who is, really?  There were just too many great British Invasion bands for them all to get their own special on ABC.

I agree with most everything Anorak said about female artists, including the exceptions to the rule that he mentioned.  Another one that I've always enjoyed is PJ Harvey, especially her first three albums.  Bjork is great.  Patti Smith is also good.  But you sort of have to think about it.  Good female musicians are hard to come by, and even when I find one they still don't generally strike the same chord with me that great male musicians do.  Call it sexism, but I can't help myself.

Statement: OK Computer was the best record of the 90s.
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Guest_ZGangsta_*
post Apr 9 2002, 02:04 AM
Post #55





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Rebuttal: Ha, I said Butt! Ok Computer was awesome, original, and musicaly challenging, but I can name lots of records from the 90s that acomplish all that and more, and were better to listen to. Ok Computer was damn good, but not the record some people make it out to be.
For the record, Achtung Baby was the best record of the 90s, with Nevermind coming in second.

Statement: If Definitely Maybe (Oasis) had never come out (94), Britain would have sunk into the ocean by now due to the imense staleness of the music scene there.
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Guest_Mystery Eskimo_*
post Apr 9 2002, 06:31 AM
Post #56





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I prefer The Bends to OK Computer personally, I think it has a bit more warmth and depth to it, in a weird kinda way.

Definetly Maybe helped kick off the Britpop boom in Britain, but I wouldn't say it had much of a lasting effect. The British music scene isn't stale at all, there's some excellent stuff here, you just have to look beyond the mainstream, obviously.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 9 2002, 01:56 PM
Post #57





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Rebuttal: The music scene in Britain is much the same as that in America:  A lot of great, underappreciated bands that don't get the sort of exposure they deserve due to a handful of major companies running everything.  But they're still a little more forward-thinking than America is.  For that time period, I'd rather have Oasis and Blur than Candlebox and Counting Crows.  A metric ass-load of great music came out of the UK in the 90s.

Statement: Nevermind, while a great album, wouldn't be half as appreciated and revered had it not been such a success.  No one would be heralding it as the best album of the decade or anything.
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Guest_JohnSkins_*
post Apr 9 2002, 05:00 PM
Post #58





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Hey, this looks like fun...

REBUTTAL:  Nevermind was a success because it was so completely different from everything else in mainstream music at the time, and its ability to almost single handedly break a genre of music is why it would've been raved about even if it wasn't as big of a commercial success as it is.

STATEMENT: RAP MUSIC is quickly becoming the shittiest form of music in existance.  Shit, it's come all the way from RUN DMC and Public Enemy to Petey fucking Pablo.  Rap music is ass, that is all.
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Guest_Kinetic_*
post Apr 9 2002, 06:03 PM
Post #59





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Rebuttal: For all its many, many flaws, modern rap is still far and away better than modern country.  That settles the shittiest form of music statement.  Beyond that, it's short-sighted to cite one example and claim that rap music is now terrible.  I could say something like this:  "Rock music is quickly becoming the most godawful form of music in the history of the known universe.  I mean, from the Beatles to Slipknot.  What the fuck?"  And that just isn't fair, because there's plenty of rock music that isn't crap.  Same with rap.  A lot of mainstream hip hop artists are just fine--Outkast, The Roots, Snoop, even fucking Jay-Z isn't all that bad.  And then, as with all genres, there's tons of shit in the underground that most people never hear that's fantastic.  You just have to be willing to look for it.

Statement:  This is courtesy of Brent D., formerly of Pitchforkmedia.com.  Brent says, "The Holy Trinity of Rock is The Beatles, The Clash, The Pixies.  Period."  And I don't know that I can argue that point.
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Guest_JohnSkins_*
post Apr 9 2002, 06:16 PM
Post #60





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REBUTTAL:  Ummm... Errrr... Ahh fuck it! I'm not too high on the Pixies, but I can't deny their skills.  Maybe Husker Du or the Replacements instead?

STATEMENT: SST Records is (was) the greatest indie label EVER.
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