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Bret Hart responds to Ric Flair's comments, His latest column
haVoc
post Jul 25 2004, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(Morrissey's Quiff @ Jul 25 2004, 06:42 PM)
QUOTE
"Chris is now in a great position," said Flair. "He's got charisma. It just doesn't ooze out of him but he is catching on. It's just that he's never been given a chance. He's a shy guy who doesn't refer to himself in the third person as the best there ever was. He's a guy who's proud to be in the position he is as world champion and he's respected for it in the wrestling community."



Did I just read that correctly?

*RIC FLAIR* just talked down to *CHRIS BENOIT*.

Now that's funny. Flair talking about how he's a better worker than Bret Hart, Mick Foley and Randy Savage is reasonably laughable as it is. But now he's talking about Benoit as if he's a young rookie just establishing himself who can learn alot from Flair. Flair is particularly dilusional, I have to say.

I think you read that wrong. He wasn't talking down to Benoit. However, he's a hypocrite for saying Bret lacked charisma then turning around and saying Benoit's lack of charisma isn't a issue.

Here I thought you couldn't teach charisma.
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The Robfather
post Jul 25 2004, 06:20 PM
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If Flair would just admit he was wrong to say those things about Bret in regards to Owen, the issue would die.

Bret has alot of rage issues, but Flair went to an out of bounds subject and won't let it go. I've lost respect for him, in part of this. Being HHH's bitch is the other reason.
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Promoter
post Jul 25 2004, 06:34 PM
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I have read some people's reviews of the book and it does have some interesting stuff like a time where Flair purposely took a fall when he wasn't suppose to in Mexico I think(it has to deal with the confusion with how many times he's held the title). It had to do with Piper interferring as planned, but gunmen pulling rifles on him and Flair, so Flair being smart jobbed the match. The "new champ" went to the locker room to give Flair back the title and they played up as the champ didn't want to leave Mexico, so Flair was handed back the title overseas. I might have the particulars mixed, but this is the gist of it. Too bad stuff like this isn't getting attention. We made it to 20 pages!
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Guest_JMA_*
post Jul 25 2004, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(Promoter @ Jul 25 2004, 07:34 PM)
We made it to 20 pages!

Woo! When I first started this thread I had no idea just how many pages it would be. At most, I thought it may reach five. Color me surprised. It's also interesting that this particular issue is still being discussed and debated on the rest of the 'net.
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Guest_Mad the Swine_*
post Jul 25 2004, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE(Promoter @ Jul 26 2004, 12:34 AM)
I have read some people's reviews of the book and it does have some interesting stuff like a time where Flair purposely took a fall when he wasn't suppose to in Mexico I think(it has to deal with the confusion with how many times he's held the title). It had to do with Piper interferring as planned, but gunmen pulling rifles on him and Flair, so Flair being smart jobbed the match. The "new champ" went to the locker room to give Flair back the title and they played up as the champ didn't want to leave Mexico, so Flair was handed back the title overseas. I might have the particulars mixed, but this is the gist of it. Too bad stuff like this isn't getting attention. We made it to 20 pages!

Matches took place in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic in late 1982.

In the first, Flair went alone.

The finish was a draw. Flair was in the sleeper in the closing seconds, the referee checking him and his arm went down twice. As it was going down for the third time, the bell rang signifying the draw.

The fans jumped into the ring, believing Veneno was the champ. As he was about to give the belt back, Flair refused. He knew that if they were this happy for the win, they'd be just as emotional at a loss and possibly violent, feeling cheated over the matter.

So, he decided if Veneno wanted to pretend to be champ, fine with him.

For the second one, Piper tagged along.

The finish for this one was for Piper to trip Veneno and Flair to get the pin immediately after. During the match, it was time for the spot. Piper tripped him; Veneno went down.

Fans started rioting, knowing that their hero was about to lose by blatant cheating. Militia men, upset with the situation, pointed their guns at Piper. Flair just went down and pulled Veneno on top of him, screaming and cursing the referee to count. Noticing the guns, the referee did as told.

The situation was still not pleasant and fans were a wee bit upset at both Flair and Piper for their antics. Jose Gonzales possibly saved both their lives by rushing the ring and clearing a path to the back. Veneno gave the title back and this time Flair accepted it.

Piper noted in his book that the fans went on to trash the dressing rooms. Flair, telling the story years earlier, said that they hid in the bathrooms until either a tank or ambulance (depending on the version of the story) whisked them away.

But, yes, too bad folks are focusing on one page of a 325 page book. There's tons of interesting stories and thoughts; Flair's birth is one of the most interesting. Stories about Cowboy Lang and North Korea are wonderful. Fantastic book.
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Guest_Frank_Nabbit_*
post Jul 28 2004, 02:16 PM
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Ole states his vehement opposition to keeping Ric Flair around in his Mid-Atlantic territory because "He was the *#(@^^%#. I recommended that we put the NWA title on him so I could get him out of the territory ... His matches were all the same, and I was afraid he would kill the town and the people would stop coming ... that's why he became NWA Champ ... he loved to be on the road, going from one town to the next, doing the same carbon copy match in Columbus on Monday, Macon on Tuesday, Atlanta, Japan, then back to Greensboro,NC ... he could have the same sequence of moves and not think in the ring ..."

credit:Chis [email protected]
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nl5xsk1
post Jul 28 2004, 02:24 PM
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Does anyone know where Chis Kovachis got his information? Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but it wouldn't surprise me that someone from Slam! sports in Canada would side with Hart and look for ways/reasons to disparage Flair.

Not accusing anyone of anything, just wondering where Ole said that about Flair.
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Guest_Loss_*
post Jul 28 2004, 02:35 PM
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There are others with more fans, but Flair has more fanboys than anyone in wrestling. As Jewett said, it's going to take a long time for people to be able to look past the nostalgia of growing up with Flair as The Man and look at him objectively. Bret Hart merely responded to comments Flair made, and he made his point in far better fashion simply because he relied on facts and had dates handy and specific examples of conversations that took place. I don't think Flair calling Bret a "good, but not great" worker was worth the tirade Bret produced, but I think he ended up angering him so much by bringing Owen's death into it that Bret decided not to hold anything back.

It's sad seeing Flair tarnish his legacy the way that he is, just because he deserves better. I think Flair's biggest fans respect him and his legacy far more than he respects himself or that legacy. If Flair truly respected his own place in history, he would have retired just as he was coming down off of his peak and he would have had his facts straight before writing his book.

History would have once remembered Flair as "the best ever", the guy who made more stars than anyone did in his era who could wrestle endless hour-long draws and do the right thing for business whenever he was asked. Flair's legacy now, is that of a fallen hero, a once-great performer who hung on too long because he didn't know what else to do with his life and ended up embarrassing himself and tarnishing his own memory. I'd prefer a Ric Flair who went out with a bang against Vader at Starrcade '93 before passing the Torch to Steve Austin and fading away personally.

The fact that Flair called Bret and Foley the biggest marks for themselves in wrestling history while going on about how he wanted to become the Ric Flair character says everything you need to know about his mindset.
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Guest_bigm350_*
post Jul 28 2004, 03:43 PM
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How much different would Flair's book be if Flair wasn't employed by the WWE? Do you think HBK, HHH, and Vince would get all the praise that Flair heaped on them in his book?
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Guest_Brian_*
post Jul 28 2004, 03:53 PM
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Well, if he wasn't employed he might have been retired by now.
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Guest_bigm350_*
post Jul 28 2004, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE(Brian @ Jul 28 2004, 04:53 PM)
Well, if he wasn't employed he might have been retired by now.

Thats what I meant. Lets say he retired and wrote this book without getting a paycheck from the WWE. I highly doubt that Flair would have this much praise for HBK, HHH, and Vince if he was retired and sitting at home.
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Guest_Brian_*
post Jul 28 2004, 04:06 PM
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You probably cut the stuff about Foley, since that was intended for a feud. Maybe the Hart stuff, especially the Montreal line. Probably the HHH line since they probably wouldn't have been as close, and likewise HBK. Who knows how he would have written about McMahon.
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Guest_JMA_*
post Jul 28 2004, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(bigm350 @ Jul 28 2004, 04:43 PM)
How much different would Flair's book be if Flair wasn't employed by the WWE? Do you think HBK, HHH, and Vince would get all the praise that Flair heaped on them in his book?

I think I have to agree with Mick Foley when he said Flair was a "compulsive liar" on BTR. I don't think anything he says can be trusted now; he's become too much of a company man.

If Flair WASN'T employeed by WWE, his book would probably spend more time of the "old days" and such. The Bischoff stuff would still be there, however. That's one thing I feel Flair is honest about in his book.
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Promoter
post Jul 28 2004, 10:56 PM
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I just hope Flair's ass kissing is worth it because we all know how the wwe loves to railroad people not in their favour. He could be playing a lot of politics to keep his name in lights now, but if he falls out of favour you will indeed hear the bashing about Flair being the champion of barnyard wrestling league. We know how Vince is a mark for his own company and history.
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Guest_Trivia247_*
post Jul 29 2004, 12:21 AM
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(Credit: Dave Scherer @ PWInsider.com)

As many wrestling fans have seen and heard, there has been much talk lately regarding the situation between Bret Hart and Ric Flair. Though there could possibly be a lot more to the situation than we know.

Shane McMahon and Bret Hart have had numerous talks recently concerning the upcoming Bret Hart DVD. Mainly, the meetings were regarding the DVD and Bret would give Shane input as far as what matches would be on the DVD and such.

Lately we have been hearing that while meetings were specifically for the DVD, it has recently turned into Shane McMahon actually bringing up the subject of a WWE return for Bret.

We will have more on this story later on today.
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haVoc
post Jul 29 2004, 07:09 AM
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This is from "Off The Record."

QUOTE
They discuss Bret Hart

Landsberg says "As you know, each territory has its favorite son, and here in Canada a lot of people still love Bret Hart." Landsberg sums up what Flair said in his book.

Flair said that in Canada, they're starving for the sight of a good athlete. Landsberg said that it's not really true. Flair says it is. He said that Canada doesn't have any big players right now. When Gretzky left, they had nobody really and Bret later became champion. Landsberg says that there are some Canadian guys in the WWE right now, but it's still not the same. Flair says that he's talking about here in Canada.

Flair said that Bret Hart came from a very strong family and he starts naming the facts. He said when Hart was with the WWF in the 1980's when Hogan was running wild, he was just mid-carder in the Hart Foundation. When he got the title, he didn't draw any money. Vince being the genius that he is couldn't find a way to fire him because he had signed him to a huge contract. He said finally, Bischoff as dumb as he is, signs Bret Hart. He said Bret went to WCW, didn't draw a dime, picked up his toys and went home. Does that make you a big star?

Landsberg said that he thinks Flair left some stuff out of the story.

Technically would you say Bret Hart was a brilliant wrestler?

Flair said yea, but it has nothing to do with it. Landsberg said there are different kinds of stars. Flair said that stars are stars. They are successful at every level. They draw big money or they don't. He said that if Bret was drawing money, Vince wouldn't have let him go. Landsberg points out that it was a downtime in the industry. Landsberg read something that Bret mailed to his show.

Bret Hart said this: "How can he (Flair) say that he was any kind of draw compare to me? Many of the house shows and PPVs with me headlining were some of the biggest (they name PPVS......) Also unlike the NWA or WCW, the WWF actually wrestled in front of real live people and not just chairs for most of his house shows."

Flair said that he wasn't saying that he was a big draw in the WCW war against the WWF. But he did wrestle against the Bruiser Brody, Dick the Bruiser and he starts naming them. He asked, "where is Bret in that equation?" Flair says that the WWE machine is made by Vince McMahon. (Flair didn't clearly respond to the statement).

Are you pissed at Bret because he didn't do what he was asked to do at the Survivor Series?

Flair said that he's not pissed at him at all.

Did you lose respect for him?

He said yes. Where he lost more respect of Bret is that he whined about it for years. He said that when Owen died, which was a tragedy... He said that when that happened, Bret brought up Montreal again. He can document that for us if we want to.

Landsberg asked Flair "Don't you think this is an area that you shouldn't go to? Here is a guy who lost his brother and you're pointing out the fact that you don't like his reaction to his own brother's death? Why do you have to mention that?"

Flair doesn't know why he did, it was something that was on his mind.

Flair said that he felt bad for the McMahons. Landsberg cuts him off and says "You felt bad for the McMahons?"

He did, because Bret was making it such a personal issue. Landsberg says "But it was personal." Personal between him and the McMahons?! Personal with he loss of Owen to his family. Flair also added that he didn't hear anyone else in the Hart family going crazy.

Landsberg tells Ric not to forget that Bret is the guy that was under the media spotlight and always had a microphone shoved underneath his throat because of his fame.

Then Flair says that if on RAW, he's 55 years old, if someone gives him a piledriver and he breaks his neck. Flair wants his family to walk down to the ring the following week on RAW and he wants his family to say that my dad was the luckiest son of a bitch alive to be part of this show and we love you, thank you for every minute of life he had. That's Ric Flair's perception.

Flair basically said that the Hart family should have reacted differently.

Landsberg said that getting killed with a piledriver is different than getting killed the way Owen got killed. Flair didn't know what to say and said "death is death."


Full Interview
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Guest_croweater_*
post Jul 29 2004, 09:24 AM
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Flair needs to shut the fuck up.

He didn't handle himself well at all there and came off as an arrogant prick.
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algrim
post Jul 29 2004, 11:21 AM
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Flair has dug himself a pretty big hole. He's already in hot water. Look what happened when Sammartino was backstage at Raw. Flair was nowhere to be found. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
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BHK
post Jul 29 2004, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE
He said that Canada doesn't have any big players right now. When Gretzky left, they had nobody really


*ahem*


(IMG:http://nhl.speedera.net/photos/l/lemieux_can_slc2002_tall.jpg)


^greatest hockey player of all-time.
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haVoc
post Jul 29 2004, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(algrim @ Jul 29 2004, 12:21 PM)
Flair has dug himself a pretty big hole. He's already in hot water. Look what happened when Sammartino was backstage at Raw. Flair was nowhere to be found. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

What's this about?
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Guest_Dynamite Kido_*
post Jul 29 2004, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE(Fear Havoc @ Jul 29 2004, 01:32 PM)
QUOTE(algrim @ Jul 29 2004, 12:21 PM)
Flair has dug himself a pretty big hole. He's already in hot water. Look what happened when Sammartino was backstage at Raw. Flair was nowhere to be found.  (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

What's this about?

I was wondering the same thing....
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Guest_brethart_*
post Jul 29 2004, 01:20 PM
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Bret Hart may be bitter, but at least he isnt a complete idiot like Flair. Flair opens his mouth about subjects he doesnt even understand.
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algrim
post Jul 29 2004, 01:27 PM
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Bruno Sammartino, a resident of Pittsburgh, was backstage at Raw filming some footage fo some documentary he's doing (with Vince's permission). He swa Flair backstage and he commented that he wanted to talk to him later regarding his book. When Bruno was done filming (whatever) he looked for Flair, but couldn't find him. I read about it in PWInsider.com.
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Guest_brethart_*
post Jul 29 2004, 01:30 PM
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Did you hear about the time back in wcw in the early 90s where Paul Heymen fought Ric Fliar to a draw in a backstage brawl? Tom Zenk posted the story on his site. LOL
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RavishingRickRud...
post Jul 29 2004, 08:41 PM
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"So I turned the TV to Off the Record yesterday and.."

"... Ric Flair was on?"

"Yeah, and boy does he hate Bret Hart"

"Yeah he does"

"I mean, he really hates him. He said some really harsh stuff."

"Yeah, Bret wrote on his website some harsh stuff about Flair after Flair bashed him in his book"

"And does he ever like McMahon"

*Big Laugh*

"What?"

"It's so true"

- a convo between me and the old man about 2 minutes ago.
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algrim
post Jul 29 2004, 09:17 PM
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Another Big Legend Backstage At RAW Last Night
News Article Submitted By: Ryan Clark
Published On: 07/27/2004

Pittsburgh native Bruno Sammartino was in attendance at the Mellon Arena last night for RAW, visiting superstars and filming his documentary: "The Life of Bruno Sammartino."

Among the wrestlers seen saying hello to him were Regal, Orton, and Batista. He was not on camera at RAW and there was a ton of footage shot backstage for the documentary.

Bruno spotted Ric Flair walking around and was about to walk over to him to talk about what Ric wrote in his book about Bruno, but very quickly Ric disappeared.
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Guest_Frank_Nabbit_*
post Aug 3 2004, 12:24 AM
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At this point in the show, Landel said he wrote a song about Flair to the tune of the Beverly Hillbillies and would like to sing it. He brought up how when Flair first broke into the business he wanted to be a cowboy and wrote this song about it as follows: "Let me tell you a story about a little fat boy - He came from Minneapolis wanting to be a cowboy - He met George Scott and bleached his hair - And everywhere he went the people would stare - Well Buddy Rogers couldn't believe that the little fat boy had the audacity to steal his gimmick and make it to the top - And that's when Flair met Landel and got his bubble popped - (2nd Verse) - Well he has been a great champ, but it's time to realize - He has grey hair and has sagging eyes - You better realize that his time is wearing thin - And he's getting a little heavy and he wears a double chin." This gets a good laugh out of the hosts and they mention how great he is to have him on the show.
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Guest_JMA_*
post Aug 3 2004, 12:37 AM
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I'm not really surprised Flair didn't confront Bruno. It is funny that Flair wouldn't face a guy who is almost seventy, though. Very funny indeed.

I can only imagine what he'd do if Bret Hart ever came back to WWE.
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Scroby
post Aug 3 2004, 05:08 AM
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I find it funny how Flair says Bret couldn't draw a dime but when Flair states he didn't either during the WWF vs WCW war, he quickly went to wrestling big names from the past. From the looks of that interview the interview ran circles around Flair and Flair just seemd very lost and confused. I also find it funny how he says Bret makes a big deal outta the death of Owen and shouldn't but yet he makes a big deal of David Flair being whipped by Hogan multiple times and holds that grudge over Hogan.
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