Guest Report post Posted May 7, 2002 They just need to make this guy stop imitating Goldberg. He doesn't have the look or charisma to make this succeed like Goldberg. The crowd isn't responding to him at all. Let the guy actually have good long matches and let him do all of his moves and stop hyping him into some Goldberg clone. Better yet, just bring in Goldberg and have Goldberg's first match back vs Brock Lesnar. Have Goldberg go over and then let Lesnar go on his way and find his own personality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Goldberg vs Lesnar could be a huge draw but I don't think that Lesnar has been built up enough to make it work. If anything, the chants on RAW might send the message that the WWE fans want Goldberg. Not that signing Goldberg is going to help the current situation much. As bad as things are, the money might be flowing like water from the faucet trying to temorarilly stop the bleeding... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Lesnar's heat is getting sucked away by Paul Heyman. They might as well have made Stephanie McMahon his manager, the two of them (Steph, Paul) generate about the same amount of you suck heat and negative charisma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Well, I think that having Heyman out there at least helps a little, I mean Lesnar probably has worse mic skills than Lance Storm and I doubt he'd ever get over if he just walked around the back, down to the ring, beat the crap out of this weeks victim and walked back. He could at least have a short goldbergesque catchphrase like "Who's Next?" ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted May 7, 2002 "Well, I think that having Heyman out there at least helps a little, I mean Lesnar probably has worse mic skills than Lance Storm and I doubt he'd ever get over if he just walked around the back, down to the ring, beat the crap out of this weeks victim and walked back. He could at least have a short goldbergesque catchphrase like "Who's Next?" ... " The thing is, I think the crowd really wants to cheer him and probably would were he on his own, but they don't because they all hate Heyman (in the X-Pac way, not the Corporate Rock or HHH or Ric Flair) and so they just sit on their hands or boo Heyman. Add to this the fact that Heyman's big promo was about getting himself over not Brock (I made Austin, I made Undertaker, I made Attitude, etc.) and it's pretty obvious he's doing more harm than good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted May 7, 2002 He's simply too impressive to be booed. His moves are cool, and even though he's yet to work a really impressive match, he does have quite a presence. The TKO, the powerbombs--everything he does is somewhat unique-looking and too plain fun for the crowd to look down upon. How do you fix this? Easy. Do a slow build over two weeks or so with him starting to win matches by pin, Heyman telling him to wreck the hell out of people, and him not always complying...there's some heat, and eventually after another big Brock win Heyman flips out when he won't follow orders, gets on the stick, and tears Brock a new one, "I made you, I can unmake you, blah blah blah, what have you got to say to that?" Handshake-fake into triple powerbomb, crowd's cheering, Brock scales the turnbuckle and unloads his shooting star press for the first time. Noble midcard monster who can stay over without even needing to feud for belts. It's so goddamn simple! Why does the WWF--er, E--always have to do everything the hard way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Brock Lesnar can talk fine. He talked at the Insurrection PPV this past weekend in a segment with Stasiak backstage(the one shown on Raw with Paul backstage, Brock talked to Stasiak after Paul left the room). I didn't see any problem with his mic skills. He definitely doesn't need Paul Heyman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Risk Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Maybe they could have Heyman put Brock out to pasture. "I've taught you what I know. Now go, and show the world why you are 'The Next Big Thing'." Heyman goes back to commentary, Lawler is fired, everyone is happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Remember, we're dealing with marks here, and it's all about presentation. It's hard for Brock to get over when he has a heel manager, he wrestles faces one week and heels the next, and JR calls him a "monster" but can't decide if he's a good monster or a bad monster. They need to hurry up and have him either turn on Heyman or fight babyfaces until he's booed no matter how imprsssive his moves are. I'm sure a few triple powerbombs on Trish, Lawler, and RVD would get him solidly over as a heel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 7, 2002 The Lesnar/Heyman relationship has been done before. Perfect example: Kane and Paul Pearer. The giant, silent monster and the bloodthirsty manager/handler, who hypes his protege up and then sics him on people. Also sort of reminiscent of the Headshrinkers and Afa. (Remember at the Royal Rumble when Afa would drag each Headshrinker to the ring by their hair and toss them in when their number was called? That was good shit.) But anyway, back on track...These things usually turn out the same. Lesnar will probably turn on Heyman, a la Andre and Heenan, and become somewhat of a face eventually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Risk Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I definetly DO NOT want to see Brock turn on Heyman. It's too predictable; something that wrestling has to stop doing is being predictable. I would much rather see Heyman on commentary. He wasn't really a "heel", he just said what he thought. Risk-Hates heels and faces (sorry Dames) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest converge241 Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I dont know exactly what the problem is, fans were into him.. maybe once the run-ins stopped and he actually had to have a match? Maybe he needs to be in a tag team to establish his work in the ring before going solo again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I think it's simpler than that. Extended squashes are boring. Unstoppable monsters are boring. When I watch wrestling, I want to see a contest between two capable athletes giving and taking. Lesnar's debut and subsequent beatings were fine because they were quick. But he hasn't done anything of substance yet. I want to see him wrestle. It's time to break the cartoonish über-mold and show us what Lesnar can really do. Otherwise, he'll never get over the way he should. And I seriously doubt they were chanting for that lazy bald-headed idiot because they want him back. They chanted it because Lesnar reminds them of him. And that's definitely a bad sign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest converge241 Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I think it's simpler than that. Extended squashes are boring. Unstoppable monsters are boring. that does not make sense to me as they were CHANTING for a guy who got over with squash matches as a monster. He lost his heat when that ended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 7, 2002 The problem with unstoppable monsters is that once they LOSE they have no where to go. Goldberg didn't have a personality to fall back on.. all he had was a few impressive moves and a streak. Look at someone like Spike Dudley on the other hand... he loses constantly, but the fans get behind him in his losses and are THRILLED when he wins. They like his character and his underdog persona. So people go crazy for him when he finally does win. If they were simply building up Lesnar to feed him to Austin or the Rock then his unstoppable streak followed by the inevitable loss to the main eventer, then the monster push would be fine. But I don't think Brock intends to go on the flea-market circut after WrestleMania XIX as that huge guy who lost to Austin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Heyman rules. fuck anyone who says otherwise. His promos are great. Just let the guy have A DAMN MATCH, the squash period is done now. a proper feud with RVD would be cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest What?! Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I think Brock is over. I think the crowds are just reacting with "HOLY CRAP! THIS GUY IS HUGE!" silence, much like Undertaker's "HOLY CRAP! THIS GUY IS SCARY!" silence when 'Taker first debuted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Fett Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I was impressed with Lesner when he first debuted, but so far every match he's had has been boring as hell. The pacing of his matches are just horrible. They're too damn slow. Even Goldberg's matches were more fast paced then Lesner's. All the matches consist of is Lesner showing how strong he is. His power moves are really lame looking to me. What is with the move where he goes in a circle and powerbombs the guy? How does it hurt more then just a regular powerbomb? It looks stupid to me. His DVD-like move is not so bad but I prefer Sean O'Haire's version of the move. His looks more explosive to me. The only other move I remember him doing is a spinbuster which is very generic looking. From the crowd reaction he's getting, it doesn't seem like the crowd is impressed with Lesner's moves either. Sure, they show how strong he is, but Mark Henry is the strongest man in the world and that gimmick doesn't seem to be getting him over either. To get over with the crowd I think Lesner should use a more explosive moveset to display his agility. With Goldberg, he at least had his spear to use whenever the crowd began losing interest in his matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Goldberg got over using quick and *NEW* power move and squashing guys very quickly. The formula was basically Goldberg comes out to cool music and pyro with a with more real intensity than HHH could dream of, he beats the guy up a little, debuts a new move (like the press slam into the powerslam or teh rolling leglock), hits the Spear (which noone used before him that way) and then the Jackhammer (also a never before seen move). He also barely sold anything. Heres Lesnar's M.O.: He comes to the ring to crappy music with little intensity (his face is more goofy looking than scary), he uses weak power moves (like a backbreaker), hits the fireman's carry DDT (which Sean O'Hare used to use) and then a rotating Powerbomb (Powerbombs are played out). He also gave some offense to Jeff and Matt Hardy and the Sean fucking Stasiak, a goofy jobber who has won maybe 2 matches since the Invasion started and then was doing prat falls for everyone in the company before Survivor Series. SInce the Goldberg chants were in Hartford which is a WWF city Vince is definatley going to get him now. In another thread I explained how I would bring him in. basically I'd have Flair get frustrated that he and nWo can't beat Austin by themselves do he has to pull out his secret weapon so he brings in Goldberg and there's the SummerSlam ME. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest buffybeast Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Lesnar's neck twitching is kind of weird looking. It makes him look like he has some kind of neurological disorder. Yeah, he does look awfully goofy. But he still looks menacing. I just wish WWF would let him expand on the wrestling skill he already has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Fett Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Brock's face does look very goofy. He has the face of a little boy. Not very intimidating. Some facial hair might help. Maybe some chinhair or something to make him look more manly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Yeah, he should grow a beard and lose the military haircut, Clean shaven bleach blondes don't sell tickets, Flair's hair is white before anyone says anything about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest muzanisa Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Lesnar had a blond goatee thing in the developmentals and still looked goofy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest converge241 Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Clean shaven bleach blondes don't sell tickets what are you talking about?? The Sarge was a great draw for WCW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Maybe, Brock Should bleach his hair and facial hair pure White. He could be the Albino killer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted May 7, 2002 he's not getting over because his matches suck. lesnar was everyone's favorite wrestler when he was running out killing people every week. now he just has boring matches where he does the same 4 or 5 moves and then kills his opponent. he has potential but still seems pretty green to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I don't see the same potential in him n0ow as I did when he was doing the run ins. He is very green, but so was Goldberg and it took him about 3 months to become the most over guy in WCW. I'll give Lesnar a couple of months to prove himself further. One other problem is that there aren't any good/great workers for him to learn with at house shows, Goldberg got Flair, DDP, Sting, Raven, etc..., Lesnar gets Stasiak. I say put him in there with Perfect, Storm, Kanyon (when he gets back), and maybe even Flair once or twice on house shows so he can learn pacing and psychology better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest myburninghammer Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Exactly how do you get over by wrestling Shawn Stasiak? Twice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted May 7, 2002 I don't see the same potential in him n0ow as I did when he was doing the run ins. He is very green, but so was Goldberg and it took him about 3 months to become the most over guy in WCW... He got over because he was forced down people's throats week in an week out, just like HHH's initial monster push. There's no need for charisma or talent when you're booked to run over everyone in under 2 minutes. Lesnar is in danger of heading down that same path. Let's hope someone at Titan..., er, I mean, WeeWee Towers makes sure that doesn't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted May 7, 2002 Any association with Stasiak kills heat. Stasiak sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
