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MMA Comments that Don't Warrant a Thread
the pinjockey
post Mar 21 2004, 06:16 PM
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At least Bushido is airing all 11 matches for $20 as opposed to UFC's 5 or 6 at most for $30.

But I agree the delay is what puts it behind the list after UFC47.

GP is April 25th - first round.
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the pinjockey
post Mar 21 2004, 06:17 PM
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And how the fuck did you not know it is next month? You posted the poster in the one Brock Lesnar thread.
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 06:33 PM
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You assume that I actually pay attention to what I post (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I thought the GP started in June.
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE
PRIDE has announced the dates for their heavyweight Grand Prix tournament.

- The first part will be the opening round, "Total Elimination 2004," which will take place on April 25th at the Saitama Super Arena.

- The second round "Critical Countdown 2004," will take place on June 20, 2004.

- For the finals, "Final Conflict 2004" will take place on August 15, 2004.


Huh, sonnofabitch.

So does anyone want to make some fantasy brackets?! It's a 16 fighter tournament (which means 8 matches), you can use anyone that has the potential to be in it.

Round 1: (In this order *edit, I've changed it up*)

Fedor vs. Yamamoto

Yamamoto has to be in it, might as well feed him to Fedor and have the champ come out strong and guaranteed to be in Rnd 2.

Noguiera vs. Herring

A rematch from their PRIDE 17 bout. It could be debated that Herring should be moved up into the 2nd round as well and be fed an easy opponent (Kharitonov, for example), but I think they should get rid of him early, which gives more importance to the 2nd round.

Coleman vs. Vovchanchyn

A rematch to the finals of the 2000 GP.

Kharitonov vs. Rodriguez

A filler match, really. Hopefully they'll give Rodriguez a chance in this; I'd like to see him vs. Fedor or maybe Cro Cop.

(Royce) Gracie vs. Yoshida

Yoshida is a huge star, he needs to be in this, and it would be the marquee match much like the Silva/Sakuraba match was. This time, however, given the tournament format, there can be no draws.

Cro Cop vs. Frye

Cro Cop destroys another, builds him up. Think of how much attention Cro Cop vs. Gracie/Yoshida would get for the 2nd round.

Sapp vs. Fujita

Another marquee fight, with the big japanese guy going up against the bigger american. I really hope they get Sapp for this.

Takayama vs. Goodridge

With 16 fighters, I think they may be a lil short and get Goodridge in there - which he'll be happy to do. Goodridge can give a beating and Takayama can give one, there's your reason for this match. Plus, the 2nd round match would be very interesting given both outcomes.

Alternate Possibilities:

Erikson
Kerr
Giant Silva
McGee
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the pinjockey
post Mar 21 2004, 06:47 PM
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Now for the $64,000 question:

When will the first round lineup be release?

My guess: April 18.
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 06:55 PM
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*Big Laugh*

I have no idea what you're talking about, PRIDE has always posted their matches well in advance (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 07:07 PM
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Second Round:

Fedor vs. Noguiera

Coleman vs. Rodriguez

Gracie/Yoshida vs. Cro Cop

Sapp vs. Goodridge

Third Round:

Fedor vs. Rodriguez

Cro Cop vs. Sapp

Final Round:

Fedor vs. Cro Cop
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 21 2004, 07:46 PM
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I don't know how eliminating Herring in Round One will make the second one better. He's in the middle of the pack, give him someone else in the middle of the pack.

Yamamoto won't be in the GP most likely. Since no one is watching it, I might as well point out that he will be ousted for his loss to Cro Cop today (Surprise surprise). It's a sort of punishment for being disrespectful to Kerr or something. Either way, I'm glad as I would much rather see Kerr than he in the GP. Kerr will most likely be in it from what I've heard.

I'll be watching Bushido 2.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 21 2004, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE(RavishingRickRudo @ Mar 21 2004, 07:48 PM)
Second Round:

Fedor vs. Noguiera

Coleman vs. Rodriguez

Gracie/Yoshida vs. Cro Cop

Sapp vs. Goodridge

Third Round:

Fedor vs. Rodriguez

Cro Cop vs. Sapp

Final Round:

Fedor vs. Cro Cop

What are you crazy? You're eliminating the HW Interim champ in the second round. You want an interesting match for the second round I know, but that's just crazy. I mean, it makes sense sort of, but then the rest of the tournament would be plain boring. I say you keep the excitement for the latter rounds.

Does anyone really think that someone other than Fedor, Nog, or Cro Cop will be taking this? Doubtful.
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the pinjockey
post Mar 21 2004, 08:07 PM
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I didn't think they were booting Yamamoto for losing to CroCop. I just thought that the punishment was having to face him.
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 09:16 PM
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I don't know how eliminating Herring in Round One will make the second one better. He's in the middle of the pack, give him someone else in the middle of the pack.

Herring is still a top, name, heavyweight fighter, leaving him behind elevates those who did make it to the second round.

Yamamoto won't be in the GP most likely. Since no one is watching it, I might as well point out that he will be ousted for his loss to Cro Cop today (Surprise surprise). It's a sort of punishment for being disrespectful to Kerr or something. Either way, I'm glad as I would much rather see Kerr than he in the GP. Kerr will most likely be in it from what I've heard.

Kerr vs. Yamamoto was a qualifier for the Grand Prix; Yamamoto won, so I can't see how they can take that away from him.

I'll be watching Bushido 2.

Give us a mini review when you're done (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 09:22 PM
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What are you crazy? You're eliminating the HW Interim champ in the second round. You want an interesting match for the second round I know, but that's just crazy. I mean, it makes sense sort of, but then the rest of the tournament would be plain boring. I say you keep the excitement for the latter rounds.

The money match up is in Fedor/Cro Cop. Period. If you have Noguiera/Fedor (which you MUST have for this IMO), it's best to have it in the second round so Fedor won't have to gas out for the finals. I recognize that the possibility exists with Rodriguez for it to go to a decision, but with the way Ricco took Sylvias "punishment" I doubt he could take Fedors. I can understand not having Noguiera for the finals could be a bit of a problem given his status, I just think he would be better suited for the second round.

Does anyone really think that someone other than Fedor, Nog, or Cro Cop will be taking this? Doubtful.

I forgot about Semmy Shilt and Josh Barnett *smacks head* I think I may have to change my matches (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I think Barnett could have a good shot at winning it, if he had the right bounces. Hell, Coleman won it in 2000 and that was mainly because he lucked out. He fought a much smaller Shoji, Fujita threw in the towel right away, and Vovchancyn was the only good challenge he faced and he (igor) had to face Sakuraba for 10 minutes in a previous, active, match.
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 21 2004, 09:53 PM
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Positive:

Fedor
Noguiera
Cro Cop
Coleman
Herring
Frye
Takayama

Pretty Sure:

Barnett
Fujita
Yamamoto
Goodridge
Vovchanchyn
Kharitonov

Possible (some not very probable):

Sapp
Kerr
Erikson
McGee
Giant Silva
Yoshida
Gracie
Rodriguez
Shilt
Rizzo
Vader (contract w/ Pride)
Lesnar (they really want him)
Aleksander Emelienanko
Enson Inoue
Waterman
Bobish
Wanderlei Silva (has talked about moving up in weight)
Matyushenko
Tim Sylvia
Andre Arlovski

If anyone wants to add to this list of possible and likely opponents, go ahead. I think I might remodel my booking.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 21 2004, 11:44 PM
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I forgot about Barnett as well. He's one of the most well rounded fighters out there.

Yamamoto/Kerr wasn't really a GP Qualifier, and PRIDE changes the rules all the time. I believe that it was just implied. If it wasn't, Stupid Bitch (Yamamoto's name from here on in) did himself no favours in his match with CRO COP~!. He was a dick without the talent. He mocked CRO COP~! in the beginning of the match. Who's stupid enough to do that? After an early low kick that was just when they were in the process of feeling each other out, he mockingly slapped his leg saying it didn't hurt. Stupid Bitch did the same with his shoulder, and twice stopped the match because of a problem with his eye. FOR EACH EYE! CRO COP~!looked ready for the kill both times as well. Funny thing is, after the second time, CRO COP~! looked really pissed and cemented that attitude when they restarted the match, as Stupid Bitch went for the handshake and CRO COP~! gave him a shot to the body. He pretty much died when Cro Cop just beat him senseless when the match was allowed to really get going. For those who are doubting, the dipshit commentator that actually makes Damon the Dog or whatever his name is look good stated at the beginning of the match that Nobuhiko Takada said that if Stupid Bitch won that he would be allowed to be in the GP. So there you go. Bas was shining on commentary for this one, at least for the replay. He was silent for the match (as usual with a CRO COP~! match), but during the replay the way HE was mocking Stupid Bitch was gold.

Tony Schiavonne (whom we will call the dipshit commentator from here on in) is terrible. I swear, Damon the Dog is bearable, they should just leave Bas with a fighter if he ain't available. He seems to ask a fighter a question, and if he doesn't get the answer he wants, he'll rephrase the question with the answer that he does want in there, or he'll just be annoying and keep on bugging them. I much would've rather seen Bassito do analysis with a fighter because he was great interacting with Mario Sperry and Renzo Gracie. Must be a fighter's chemistry. FIRE HIM. He is an insult to Canadians everywhere.

- Ikuhisa Minowa has shown that the 'Mullet=200%-->workrate' theory may work in pro wrestling, but it's pretty much a hinderance in MMA. Wandy has proven that in MMA, 'Less=More' when it comes to hair. Hmm, now that I think about it, Wandy, Rampage, Tito, Fedor, Nog, etc. etc. and I think I may get a Nobel Prize.

- Sean Sherk was impressive against the Gay Robot. Purple futuristic looking chinpads and boots. What a maroon (HA! I'm an idiot). He slammed him in ways that would make Rampage proud, worked smoothly in his mat transitions such as passing the guard, acheiving side mount, etc. Big problem; it went to a decision. He seems much like Matt Hughes lite since he can punish his opponent but can't really finish the guy without using GnP. Like I said he's Matt Hughes lite so he couldn't do it. He couldn't even get the choke when he was given so many opportunities. He'd definitely have a great fight with Sakuraba, especially since Saku wouldn't have to fight someone bigger than him for once. Sherk really needs to work on his subs, at least that's what I got from this.

- Speaking of fighting Saku, that's what Rodrigo Gracie apparently wants to do. He won. Yay. Mach didn't really do much, this is probably my pick for worst fight of the night.

- The other Sakurai (Ryuto) was great, he lost, but great heart. Okami delivered some excellent GnP in that one, and Ryuto showed some great striking from the bottom. Really fun match, though I couldn't really get into it as I wasn't familiar with these guys before. That's pretty much a running theme for the show, as most of these guys are under 180 and therefore don't get much play in PRIDE due to the fact that there ain't much room for many under 200 to begin with.

- I was disappointed in Chris Brennan, and by his post fight reaction he was as well. He just laid on the ground and let Daiju ride out the decision. At least Takase tried to finish the fight and applied some nice subs, but Brennan didn't do shit. I still give him respect for not tapping, but regardless, he should have done something. I'm a HUGE FUCKING Daiju Takase mark, but still, there's no way he should be beating Chris Brennan. Brennan pulled a "Randleman" with this one as in he had skills but didn't really put them to use.

- The main theme of the event with Team Japan v. Team Chute Boxe (which Tony kept calling Wanderlei but whatever) already told us what we knew. Jadson ain't ready, Gomi is a beast, and Shogun is definitely a star in the future. He's got great ground skills and we all know about Chute Boxe guys' standup ability. I think he should be the Rua in the GP, but apparently they want Murilo. Oh well, they both own it, but it would make sense for the heavier one to be involved.

- At least the first fight had a finish, that's about as memorable as it was.

- Lithuania certainly ain't no Russia in producing their fighters, the guy was easily put in a guillotine and tapped. Nothing worthwhile.

- WHOO~! Mario Sperry showed you just how meaningless a 11-0 kickboxing record is in Croatia. Bencic was put down easily by a grazing punch. Sperry just oozes charisma. Bencic was a giant vortex of heat, WORST INTERVIEW EVER. I didn't feel bad for him after he made me sit through that. Apparently BTT wants a member in UFC, according to Mario. Would have heard more if Tony wasn't such a dumbass.

- As usual, Tony schilled the GP like ten times literally during the show, naming guys that would be in it. Frye is a name thrown around, in addition to the guys we already know, HOTNESS~! should be in it. I don't remember much else, I was trying to tune him out. I read somewhere that there's a list of twenty names that they're trying to cut down. I know one person who won't be on it:

(IMG:http://sherdog.com/fightfinder/pictures/Bushido2_match8.jpg)
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 22 2004, 12:08 AM
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Yamamoto/Kerr was a "survival" match, which basically meant that they'd go on to compete for the GP. Of course, I'm not complaining that Yamamoto is out (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still have yet to hear Mauro Ranallo commentate for PRIDE, and am now starting to really dread having to listen to him for the GP show (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 22 2004, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE(RavishingRickRudo @ Mar 22 2004, 12:49 AM)
Yamamoto/Kerr was a "survival" match, which basically meant that they'd go on to compete for the GP. Of course, I'm not complaining that Yamamoto is out (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still have yet to hear Mauro Ranallo commentate for PRIDE, and am now starting to really dread having to listen to him for the GP show (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

"Survival" as in you are still in the running for the PRIDE HW GP, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are in it yet. PRIDE covers their bases like that, and thank God for it.

I'll reply to the rest later. I'm tired.
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razazteca
post Mar 22 2004, 11:39 AM
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ESPN is showing K-1 right now! They just finished the 2002 Grand Prix of Hoost vs Labanner. And now showing Mark Hunt vs #1 Japan's Favorite Midcard Jobber Gary Goodridge!
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Styles
post Mar 22 2004, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE(razazteca @ Mar 22 2004, 01:20 PM)
ESPN is showing K-1  right now!  They just finished the 2002 Grand Prix of Hoost vs Labanner.  And now showing Mark Hunt vs #1 Japan's Favorite Midcard Jobber Gary Goodridge!

Thanks for the headsup! Its on ESPN2 actually, and it looks like its a marathon. This is my first time watching K-1. It's a little boring compared to UFC/Pride, because they get knocked down and then they get back up, its not much different than boxing. Anyone want to give me a quick summary of the rules? Seems like there's a point system...
EDIT: Sapp vs. Hoost is definitely NOT boring! Holy Crap, these 2 are just beating the shit out of each other. Sapp is indeed a scary, scary man. Sapp just won by stoppage. What event am I watching anyway? Does ESPN2 show K-1 often?
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razazteca
post Mar 22 2004, 05:19 PM
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Has K-1 ever had a match using San Shou rules? I am asking because after watching Cung Lee fight I think all kickboxing fights should include takedowns.
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AboveAverage484
post Mar 22 2004, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE
Anyone want to give me a quick summary of the rules? Seems like there's a point system...


Basically all strikes are allowed except: headbutts, forearms, elbows, strikes to the groin, and strikes to the back of the head.

Limited clinching.

Regular matches are five 3 minute rounds, and tournament matches are three 3 minute rounds.

Three knockdown rules is in effect. When a fighter falls, the referee must clarify whether it is a down or a slip. Sometimes the lines are blurred, but usually the refs keep it pretty consistent. A down will constitute a ten count. If the fighter doesn't answer the ten count or the referee deems the fighter unfit to continue the match will be stopped.

If a fighter is "out on his feet", he will be given a standing eight count.

That's pretty much it.

Also, the glory years of K-1 were '96-'99. Pretty much any show from that era is excellent at best or decent at worst. I have my own K-1 compilation tapes, so if your interested, drop me a line. Beware, though, because I promised some poster I would send him a Pride tape free of charge a month or two ago and I haven't even copied it yet. (IMG:http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
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AboveAverage484
post Mar 22 2004, 08:32 PM
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Top K-1 fighters of all time (IMHO):

1. Ernesto Hoost
2. Peter Aerts
3. Andy Hug
4. Mike Bernardo
5. Jerome Le Banner
6. Stefan Leko
7. Francisco Filho
8. Ray Sefo
9. Mirko Filipovic
10. Mark Hunt
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razazteca
post Mar 23 2004, 02:56 PM
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From the matches I have seen on ESPN2 which was from 2001-2002 they had a 2 knockdown TKO rule.

To me Mike Hunt is just a fat brawler, why is he considered to be one of the best? And why is'nt Ruafus on the list? All ESPN2 seems to think alot of him by showing several of his fights.
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 23 2004, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE(razazteca @ Mar 23 2004, 03:37 PM)
From the matches I have seen on ESPN2 which was from 2001-2002 they had a 2 knockdown TKO rule.

To me Mike Hunt is just a fat brawler, why is he considered to be one of the best? And why is'nt Ruafus on the list? All ESPN2 seems to think alot of him by showing several of his fights.

Mark Hunt has never been knocked out, he basically has an iron chin. He's not a "brawler", he just happens to have a ton of power. He honed his skills in a gym, it's not like they picked him off the street ala Tank. He has a wide arsenal of moves that he really doesn't need to use much. Besides, he's in the twilight of his career.

This reminds me though, tell me what you guys think of this; Gary Goodridge is a much better striker nowadays then he was in his disgusting KO at the hands of Yvel at PRIDE 10. He went to a decision with Mark Hunt this past year, and has hung in there with some K1 veterans.

Fedor DESTROYED him standing. Shouldn't that tell us something about how good of a standup fighter Fedor is?
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Your Paragon of ...
post Mar 23 2004, 03:59 PM
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There's some sumo wrestler in the GP, some guy named Centauri or other.

There's a press conference this Friday where they will apparently talk about the sixteen names. I read that on Sherdog, so take that with a grain of salt.
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AmericanDragon
post Mar 23 2004, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE(razazteca @ Mar 23 2004, 04:37 PM)
To me Mike Hunt is just a fat brawler, why is he considered to be one of the best?

Mark Hunt is like the Samoan gimmick of getting stronger when getting hit in the head. You should watch his fight against Sefo.
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razazteca
post Mar 23 2004, 08:37 PM
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I saw his fight against Francisco Filho in which Hunt won the 2001 Grand Prix. Also in the Hunt vs Goodrigde match in which he took everything Gary had and mocked him by just sticking his forehead out there so Goodridge would tire himself out.

I still don't like the Rikishi Lite kickboxer from New Zealand.
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Brush with Great...
post Mar 23 2004, 10:15 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what is with the Netherlands fascination with kickboxing? It seems like it is the only Euro-country that is putting out guys (does Holland love kickboxing while the rest of Europe hates it or what). Correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am) but aren't Aerts, Yvel, Schilt and the Overeems all Dutch? Anyone have an explanation for this?
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 23 2004, 10:33 PM
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Cor Hammers. He helped train Bas Rutten and Team Golden Glory, among others.

"HH: Yes, I moved to Holland and my manager got me hooked up with Cor Hammers who is a legend in Muay Thai training. Everyone in Thailand knows who this guy is. He was even recruited at one time to train all of the K-1 fighters. He is really an incredible trainer and I have progressed tremendously under his tutelage. I have only been training with him for a year and a half and I credit my stand up skills to him."

- Heath Herring

Why does Brazil have such great submission and muay thai fighters? Why does America have such good wrestlers? Why does Mexico have such good boxers? The environment breeds it. If you have someone who is an expert in the craft, that means the people who are closest to him will learn. They teach others. It becomes localized and it grows and develops. After a while, and thanks to things like the UFC and PRIDE, other people start to learn it. However, those who have been doing it longest are often the best.

Why, specifically, does Holland have the best fighters? Because they have the best trainer AND they have the best manager/publicist. The "best" Muay Thai/Kickboxing fighters are still in Thailand, however. Just as the best Boxers are in America. There's no reason to get into K-1 if (a)the money is better elsewhere and (b)the culture/environment/tradition tells you to stay home.
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AboveAverage484
post Mar 23 2004, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE
He honed his skills in a gym, it's not like they picked him off the street ala Tank.


Well you're kinda right and kinda wrong. Hunt actually WAS picked up off the streets. He used to be a bouncer and someone witnessed him roughing some people up and said he should try out for K-1. Though he has WAY more class than Tank does.

And Thais don't fight in K-1 becuase all the good Thai fighters are less than 160 pounds. There aren't too many Thais that weight more than 205.

BTW, here's who I would like to see in the GP:

Antonio Nogueira
Bob Sapp
Fedor Emelianenko
Heath Herring
Igor Vovchanchyn
Josh Barnett
Kazuyuki Fujita
Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr
Mirko Cro Cop
Pedro Rizzo
Semmy Schilt
Sergei Kharitonov
Tim Sylvia
Tom Erikson
Yoshihiro Takayama
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RavishingRickRud...
post Mar 23 2004, 10:58 PM
Post #60





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Muay Thai in Thailand is more than a sport, though. It's engrained in their fighters to the point that I doubt many would leave it anyways. Though the weight thing is a good point. With something like Muay Thai, it takes a long time for the barriers to break where other options are considered for the fighters. Be it to fight under modified rules or to go outside the country, or to fight in MMA.

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Antonio Nogueira
Tom Erikson

Bob Sapp
Fedor Emelianenko

Kazuyuki Fujita
Mark Kerr

Heath Herring
Josh Barnett

Igor Vovchanchyn
Pedro Rizzo

Mark Coleman
Sergei Kharitonov

Mirko Cro Cop
Semmy Schilt

Tim Sylvia
Yoshihiro Takayama

I wouldn't mind seeing this out of those names.

RRR: Enjoying making matches WAY more than he should.
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