RVD-Lesnar @ Vengeance

[Guest Vitamin X]

There was a couple things I was thinking about in terms to this match. Mainly, how the hell do you book it? Apparently the only way to beat LEsnar is by disqualification, and that's not going to happen at a pay per view, or at least there shouldn't be a reason for it to.

 

But RVD appears to be getting a push, so he has to beat someone who is (supposedly) getting no heat.

 

BUT, if RVD beats Lesnar, then Lesnar has that smear on his win-loss record and that ruins his gimmick of 'unstoppable monster who can't be pinned or tap'.

 

So who wins and how the hell do you book it? It's like unstoppable force versus immovable object, but something HAS to budge here.

 

And on a side note, I think a reason why Lesnar isn't getting a lot of heat is because there's really no reason for the fans to hate him, if anything the fans should like him, but they can't like him because 1. Paul Heyman, and 2. Because he's booked as a heel and helps out fellow heels. Why should the fans like him? Because he can't be beat cleanly, that's why, and fans get behind people like that, just look at Goldberg, or even Rhyno from last year, I don't remember Rhyno losing too cleanly to people except when he faced the Undertaker. Bastard.

 

And I still think it will soon enough be Rhyno vs. Brock Lesnar vs. HHH for the battle of MOST INTENSE~! MAN in the WWE.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I think Brock gets no heat because the fans have seen this movie before and they know how it ends.

 

I mean...he destroyed the most over face on that show by putting him through a table and the next week still retained no heat.

 

I've been saying since the first stare down on the interview on RAW that this feud was a prime example of book meeting the corner.

 

BUT.

 

For this one case I will be giving the WWE the benefit of the doubt.

 

Here's why:

 

1. Lesnar isn't going to win the IC title before Summerslam.

 

I mean...sure he could...but I doubt it highly.

 

2. The ppv match will not end by DQ or count out.

 

Again...it could...but I'm giving the WWE the benefit here, remember. Another false loss would only hurt Lesnar more than a real loss at this point.

 

3. RVD has come out on the short end EVERY WEEK.

 

He lost KOTR.

 

The next night he attacks the coronation ceremony...but gets laid out at the end.

 

The next week he van terminators Heyman...but gets laid out at the end.

 

 

All of this points to an RVD victory at Vengeance.

 

And I think he WILL win.

 

Why?

 

Because Vince KNOWS what RVD means to the company at this point and in the future.

 

RVD has lost at the last 3 ppvs (yes he beat Jericho at KOTR...but he finished the night a loser).

 

A fourth loss isn't going to kill him or anything...but I beleive that Vince has realized that you can't sacrifice the closest thing to a sure thing or best bet you have.

 

So lets say that RVD beats Brock at Vengeance.

 

Brock STILL Main Events SummerSlam.

 

And now that he HAS lost...people may have a reason to beleive he could lose again.

 

I predict Brock will win the WWE title at Summerslam.

 

Then go on to feud with the ONE MAN who has defeated him.

 

That program could be hot.

 

Maybe it is a little to much of buildingfor the future...but like I said...benefit of the doubt.

[Guest Vitamin X]

But the problem with that booking is, is that the ONE MAN in question is one man out of roughly 4 that he's faced in straight up matches (The Hardyz, Bubba, and RVD, and that's not the greatest of accomplishments except for RVD). If the men Brock has beaten were people like Austin (*ahem**cough*), Rock, HHH, Taker, Jericho, Angle, Edge, etc. and RVD beat him at Vengeance, *THEN* that would mean something as RVD would be the proverbial monkey on Brock's back.

 

[suddenly gets visual image of RVD on Brock's back screeching]

 

disturbing...

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Well...In order to win the title he'll have to beat either Rock, Angle or Taker (probably Rock)

 

And the feud doesn't have to start immediatly...nor should it...since they will have just ended a feud.

 

If they were to go this root I would rather see Brock beat people for a few months...maybe even until WreslteMania...what the hell.

 

Ratings aren't moving...may as well create some stars.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I don't know if the way to get Brock over is to be the fighting undefeatable champion.

 

And do you guys think he should keep or ditch Heyman? As someon else put it, Heyman's an instant heat leech, and Brock's the guy who needs to get over on his own. I think it would be awesome if in a way Brock (as a champion, I'm trying to get him over here) became such an enraged monster that he attacked Heyman and obliterated him to a huge pop, then right afterwards the babyface who he just defeated would try to shake his hand then Brock would Browser Refresh him too. Heyman could then go on to manage a group of cruisers, new talent, etc. and throw them at Brock, which could go well with the whole WWE shades of grey they're going for again since Brock would be over now, but people choose whether to cheer him for ditching Heyman, or boo him because he's a MONSTER~! And same goes for Heyman. Hell maybe Heyman and RVD could work together, but RVD doesn't need Heyman. I'm not sure, just throwing out ideas here...

[Guest ManKinnd]

The guy going into the Summerslam title match should have a win at Vengeance, but RVD really needs to beat Brock. And so if RVD beat Brock at Vengeance then demanded Brock's title shot up for grabs at Raw because he knows he can beat him again, then Heyman causes Brock to lose again, Brock will turn on Heyman. Heyman gets another guy to throw at Brock and make RVD vs. Taker at SS and Brock vs. Heyman's new guy. But then I also think the title shot shouldn't be put on the line, so I'm torn, but overall I think this is the best way to go.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Fear not.

 

Any road that leads to Taker losing the title to RVD at SummerSlam is in fact...the right road.

[Guest jester]

AFter Brock loses, maybe Heyman could rag on him and slap him or something like that. Brock loses it, cuts a promo where he fires Heyman and kicks the hell out of him, and give him a face run where he cuts his own promos.

 

jester

[Guest GenerationNever]

Anyone else think Heyman could be ONE of the reasons Lesnar has no heat? But, see, attacking Heyman would be predictable. I say just have Ross mention that Heyman will be Lesnar's agent behind the scenes, maybe mentioning how Paul could be afraid of another Van Terminator. Then they could just not mention him again.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I see two scenarios here both of which include RVD being the first to beat Brock.

 

1. RVD beats Brock at Vengeance after throwing every single offensive move he can muster....I'm talking Van Daminator, Van Terminator, sommersault into the 5th Row, 5 star, etc. After this Brock goes on to win at SS and then feuds with RVD after that.

 

2. Brock beats RVD for the IC title at the PPV, but then the next night (or next week) loses the #1 contender slot to RVD in a rematch. RVD goes on to win at SS, and it ends up being a reversal of scenario 1.

 

Anything involving Brock winning both the IC and world titles in consecutive PPVs is revolting and I refuse to discuss it.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

I bet it ends in a time limit draw(do they still have time limits?) or a double countout/double DQ...something where neither of them wins, giving RVD a reason to be mad and want in on the Title match at Summerslam. My guess is a Wrestlemania X scenerio:

 

RVD vs Champion

Brock vs ???(so he can have 2 matches as well)

Champion vs Brock

 

Id have RVD win the title, and lose it to Brock.

That would probably piss a lot of people off, but whatever..

[Guest Fook_Hing_Ho]

I see one of several senarios:

 

1) RVD beats Brock clean at Vengeance at then feuds with Brock after SS when Brock is the champ.

 

2) RVD loses to Brock at Vengeance but beats him the next night on raw for the SS title shot.

 

3) RVD loses to Brock at Vengeance and Brock wins the title at SS, getting both the IC and the World titles. A tounament is held for the IC title, giving a good storyline reason for the belt to move to Smackdown.

 

4) No contest at Vengeance, leading to a three-way at SS in which either Brock or RVD win the belt and continue their feud into the fall.

 

5) RVD beats Brock at Vengeance and in the rematch on raw the next night for the SS title shot. RVD wins both belts at SS and a tounament is held for the IC title, ultimately moving it to Smackdown.

[Guest Flyboy]

Or... to kill one bird with one stone, have a match with 2 Falls. The first fall for the IC Title, the second fall for the SS Title shot.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I have to wonder how the Nash injury plays into all this. I read the top matches for SS will be Rock/Brock, Hogan/Vince, and Nash/HHH. But with Nash hurt I don't get it. I see Booker now fighting HHH if HHH joins the NWO.

 

If this is true though, what the hell is RVD going to do on the show?

[Guest Vitamin X]

And we all know how that Booker/HHH match is gonna play out :-\

 

It's a shame HHH isn't who he used to be...

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I pray for RVD vs. Benoit #1 contenders match at SS.

 

Benoit can win too...I just want the match.

[Guest Black Tiger]

All those ideas have one thing in common: THEY MAKE TOO MUCH SENSE, this is WWE we're talking about.

 

 

1. RVD keeps the belt either by DQ or getting DQ'd

 

2. RVD wants a re-match on RAW for the title shot.

 

3. Brock wins the re-match.

[Guest The Son of Sting]

Dreamer helping RVD win by attacking Brock with the Kendo stick allowing Rob to 5star Brock is a finish that makes sense.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Have Brock win the IC title at Vengeance, with the help of Heyman. Brock is pissed because he thought he didn't need help. The next night, RVD beats Brock to win the Summerslam title shot when Heyman's interference backfires. (non title match) Brock dumps Heyman. Heyman goes out for the next few months and recruits old ECW guys (Raven, Justin Credible, etc.) do try to take out Brock, but no one can. Finally, Rhyno returns under the management of Heyman and gives Brock a good feud. RVD wins the Undisputed title from Taker at Summerslam.

[Guest ManKinnd]

A time limit draw would be good, but that means we'd likely have to see these two wrestle for a half-hour. Is that a good thing?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

No.

 

Lesnar hasn't gone more than a few minutes and I don't want to watch him go 30 minutes.

 

RVD would have to repeat some spots too...shich only waters them down.

 

The match should be booked similar to their Raw match with Brock dominating, countering RVD's offense with power moves.

 

That plan would work as the crowd would get behind RVD's comebacks (and Brock cutting them off should get him some heat for a change).

 

All they need is an ending...and it should be hot as RVD would be making his BIG comeback.

[Guest chirs3]

Have Brock win the IC title at Vengeance, with the help of Heyman. Brock is pissed because he thought he didn't need help. The next night, RVD beats Brock to win the Summerslam title shot when Heyman's interference backfires. (non title match) Brock dumps Heyman. Heyman goes out for the next few months and recruits old ECW guys (Raven, Justin Credible, etc.) do try to take out Brock, but no one can. Finally, Rhyno returns under the management of Heyman and gives Brock a good feud. RVD wins the Undisputed title from Taker at Summerslam.  

 

You rule.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

RVD will win, but it won't be clean by any means.