Guest RicFlairGlory Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I really think the Brock Lesnar push is going to fall so flat on its face that it could be the new dawn of the next "Dark Ages" in Pro Wrestling. I could go into the biggest men in the buisness fleeing elsewhere (Hogan, Flair; now Austin, Rock, to movies etc), but I think I'll stick to Lesnar alone for now His biggest problem, is that the fans dont care at all. Nobody knows Lesnar, nobody followed Lesnar for a long time, so if he wins... he's just crushing RVD and Rock, which doesnt get him heel heat, or even bossman heat, just.... "fuck you you dont deserve shit I'm turning my TV off" heat. The big names in Wrestling, Austin, Rock, to varying degrees Bret and Shawn, none of them have been "Bam, I'm on the scene, I'm getting pushed to the moon" Vince has to realize he cannot create a legend, he cannot push anybody to the moon in 6 months and have them matter. He can say "The next big thing," and "Ruthless Agression," all he wants, but that wont make the fans care about Lesnar. The only person who showed up, Bam, won soon was the Undertaker if I remember correctly. He didnt speak, neither does Lesnar, they just have a mouthpiece for them. But the Undertaker was the Dead Man, theres a reason a Dead Man cannot talk, and btw, he DID talk. Bearer did most of it, but Taker wasnt just some guy. Lesnar.... he has no gimmick, unless you want to consider "Golberg-esque" a gimmick. Why's Heyman talking for him? Why cant he talk? A bunch of questions that lead to a "this is stupid" feel from fans. We all know that the WWE has always been generational... from the Hogan/Savage days, to HBK/Bret, to HBK/Taker/Austin, to Rock/HHH.... Old Generation, New Generation, Attitude.... but the WWE has nothing to go to now. They're going to "Ruthless Agression" Fuck even DESIRE was better than that. They wanted to create another generation of WWE stars... but instead of taking Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, RVD, and taking them to the next level, they take those four, and job them out to old guys and create this new Heatless Monster in Brock Lesnar. Creating a 'superstar' just to go over RVD is pointless. I'm not saying this as an RVD fan, but as someone who wants to see the company work right. Vince keeps trying to pop ratings, and the Goldberg unstoppable monster gimmick sucks, and its not popping ratings. Monsters dont get over. Especially those who have no personality whatsoever. With SummerSlam on the way (which I will likely go to), I will get to see Lesnar win the World Championship, and begin the dawn of a new era we hope to all forget. I just.... I know at this point Ive gone from semi-structured to rambling, but what is Vince thinking? Lesnar wont even sell T-Shirts. He's gonna be a joke, nobodys gonna care.... god when's he going to realize you cannot push somebody into stardom if they dont have it. Test, pushed beyond all he should ever be pushed, but he doesnt have it. Austin, Rocky, HBK, Bret, 99/00 HHH, they all have IT. That undescribable charisma. Lesnar. He dont have it. Wake up Vince. He dont have it. Maybe you can start up the XFL, you can put that on the back of the Jersey of the teammate of "He Hate Me" At least I'll get to see the dawn of the Next Big Failure
Guest Human Fly Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Even though the Undertaker was big time over, they still waited a year to put the title on him. Brock isn't over, and is getting the title in under 6 months.
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Amen. I just don't know what I'm going to do if Lesnar wins the title. I'll still watch but god it'll be more of a chore than a pleasure.....
Guest RicFlairGlory Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Amen. I just don't know what I'm going to do if Lesnar wins the title. I'll still watch but god it'll be more of a chore than a pleasure..... Virtually my point exactly Half the time I'll watch RAW, not because I care about the storylines, but just to stay current. So I dont fall behind in my posting And Human Fly, thanks for defining the time periods for Taker and Lesnar, I'd forgotten the exact dates. Damn... just let them get over, THEN put a strap on them. HBK, Bret, Austin, Rocky, HHH... they were ALL over when they won the title. Taker, Hogan.... their first times they were BOTH over. When RVD had the fake win, he was MAD over. Lesnar.... nobodys gonna care. No offense to Jericho marks, but when Jericho won it.. he still wasnt THAT over. Charisma should come before the belt.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Jericho not being over wasn't his fault, though. When he won the belt, it was at an event where everyone (even the writers, so it seemed) thought the title match would be between Rock and Austin, and Jericho wouldn't even be a factor. Hell, that was after nearly a year and a half of deserving the title but never gettting it. Lesnar has been over-pushed and shoved down the fan's throats since his debut. They're screwed, no matter what they do with this. I keep saying it, they've gone and booked themselves right into a corner here, and they've got no way out. They can either admit defeat and expose the Lesnar experiment as a definate failure, or they can damage one of their last top stars' drawing power immensly and put the title on someone who could be the worste-drawing champion since Diesel. Yep, they're fucked, alright.
Guest NoSelfWorth Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I think Brock may not be the 'next big thing', but his chances of being so would have been much better had they kept doing the referee stopage gimmick, and ignored HGH who thought they shouldn't do it.
Guest RicFlairGlory Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I think Brock may not be the 'next big thing', but his chances of being so would have been much better had they kept doing the referee stopage gimmick, and ignored HGH who thought they shouldn't do it. He WAS more over then than at any other point....
Guest NoSelfWorth Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Which is exactly why HGH wanted it stopped.
Guest Zero_Cool Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Man, according to the Internet, HHH is to wrestling as Pat Riley is to the NBA. With Pat Riley, everything bad in the NBA right now can be traced back to him one way or another...almost like Kevin Bacon and any other actor in the entire world. Now that may not be the same with HHH, but it would sure seem that way if everything we read about him is true.
Guest NoCalMike Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 True, I am not sure what in the hell Vince sees in Brock so EARLY in his career, and I sure as hell don't see how an UN-over wrestler can turn a company around and bring back ratings. RVD is over, Brock is not, End of Story.
Guest Cataclysm911 Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Why would Brock fail? I mean, we all know that Brakus or whatever the fuck his name was, was so successful.
Guest humongous2002 Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Brakus the bodybuilder, whatever happened to that guy?The last time I saw him he was getting his ass kicked by Taz. But anyways I just feel bad for Brock b/c this push is not getting him anywhere, and might kill his whole wrestling career . I remember back in 99 the Big Show was getting the same push, without any wrestling skills and charisma the giant became WWF champ in less than a year. The fans(marks and smarks) everywhere turn on him even though he was a babyface, everybody knew he didn't deserve to be a champ and that he wasn't in the same league with Austin,HBK, and Rock. His title reign flopped and he hasn't recover since, even though he is still getting some kind of a push, the fans still think of him as a joke. Now i'm not saying Brock is as lazy as Big Slow, but the letdown will affect him mentally that it will be hard for him to win the fans respect. Vince should know that this is not 1986, back when the muscular bound giants used to rule the WWF, nowadays you see giants like that everywhere that it doesn't catch anybodies attention. What the WWE needs is an extreme athlete that could take the company ball to another level, Vince can you spell R....V....D?
Guest Nezbyte Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I agree with this topic almost 100%. You have some excellent talents to build on with: HHH, Jericho, Benoit, Gurrero, and R-V-D. You also have a good old guy in Taker. And the rookies like Cena, Orton, Levi, The Bull (to the WWE), and Sean Ohaire (also, to the WWE). Give RVD the ball and build up the other guys. And with all the rookies you have a solid midcard who, when they move up to the mains they will know each other well.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I agree with this topic almost 100%. You have some excellent talents to build on with: HHH, Jericho, Benoit, Gurrero, and R-V-D. You also have a good old guy in Taker. And the rookies like Cena, Orton, Levi, The Bull (to the WWE), and Sean Ohaire (also, to the WWE). Give RVD the ball and build up the other guys. And with all the rookies you have a solid midcard who, when they move up to the mains they will know each other well. I'm not going to chastise you for listing HHH under "excellent talents", or anything, but I'm pretty sure the WWE has already built him up as much as they possibly can. One of Vengence's "big draws" is supposedly which show HHH ends up, which probably explains the poor ticket sails...
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 [*] Brock Appears [*] Brock squashes guys [*] Brock feuds with Hardyz [*] Smarks say, "This guy isn't believable as a top draw. SCSA and The Rock should be shaking in their boots if he's gonig to be a monster heel." [*] WWE attempts to have SCSA job to Lesnar, Austin quits. [*] WWE is set to have The Rock job to Lesnar. [*] Smarks complain about it. Figures.
Guest Nezbyte Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I like big guys, but, Lesnar doesnt impress me. Rhyno impresses me. Levi impresses me, fuck, Show impresses me more than Lesnar. Lesnar needs to become a more well rounded worker and not be handed the title.
Guest SpYdEr_Dan Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 my words probley wont carry much weight..but ohh well. i like Lesner. he is one of the few reasons why i find RAW enjoyable...perhaps i just like to watch people get fuckin killed by him...that was untill he stopped doing his double/triple powerbombs...now he is the tiltawirl stunner as i like to call it. but put yourself in vince's shoes...what else could be do with lesner? he is a big monster ment to kill. brock is only doing what he can do best. are you seriously going to tell me you would prefer him to team with Scotty 2 Hotty and have him dance like a idiot? someone with that much size is ment for big things...remember the 80's and vince's love for the big men.
Guest Anglesault Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Brock is NOT doing what he can do best. Brock is an awesome amateur wrestler
Guest cynicalprofit Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Man my thread in an even better posting....i feel humbled.
Guest cabbageboy Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I think Lesnar will mean jack shit for the ratings. The guy has Yokozuna heat. People forget that Yoko was a guy who debuted and then 6 months later won the WWF title. I saw him for the first time at my first live even in OCT. 1992. He debuted on TV shortly thereafter. Then he won the world title at WM, well, sorta. Hogan ended up with it but not until after Bret was totally buried. Yokozuna had zero heat. Nothing, nada. Brock is obviously a better wrestler than Yoko, but his insane out of control push and heat level remind me of Yoko. Thoughts?
Guest commish13 Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I remember back in 99 the Big Show was getting the same push, without any wrestling skills and charisma the giant became WWF champ in less than a year. The fans(marks and smarks) everywhere turn on him even though he was a babyface, everybody knew he didn't deserve to be a champ and that he wasn't in the same league with Austin,HBK, and Rock. His title reign flopped and he hasn't recover since, even though he is still getting some kind of a push, the fans still think of him as a joke. Show was MONSTER over as a face last year, especially during the InVasion... then they went and made him a heel again, and it killed his heat. As a dominant face, this man is loved. See the 4-Team Tag match that kicked off Unforgiven last year, the crowd was deafening when he got into the ring. Oh, and I like Brock; at least it's something new.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 It's something new... Well..let's see... IS he new? Yes. So I guess we settlt on it being better. BULLSHIT. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. Nor does it mean it should just be accepted.
Guest commish13 Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 That's right, it doesn't have to be accepted... not by someone who doesn't want to. As much as I'd rather have Angle or RVD pushed as champion, I like Brock, and as soon as he is allowed to use his full arsenal of maneuvers, he'll show that, at least ringwise, he at least partially deserves what he is likely to get. I am curious to see what they do with his title run... who he faces, the names he defeats; eventually, you know he'll get more over... at least I hope so. For some wishful thinking, I was at RAW Monday and he got quite the large ovation when he got the tag for the first time getting into the match, and he has been getting reactions for the F5, if it means anything.
Guest Olympic Slam Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I don't dislike Brock, I watch his matches and they never seem overly offensive to me. I don't mind him hanging out in the I.C division wrestling the likes of Booker, RVD and other face mid-carders. Heck, I really don't mind that he's main eventing Summerslam as it'll be different and he'll get great heat in a feud with Rock. However I pray to every god imaginable that Rock comes away with the win at SS and Brock falls back to earth. It's nice to have mid-carders main event sometimes (Benoit v Rock and Angle v HHH v Rock, all from 2000) but Brock is sooooo not Undisputed Champion caliber.
Guest Brian Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 "Brock is NOT doing what he can do best. Brock is an awesome amateur wrestler" But as is proven, it would take a real great wrestler of tons of experience to actually harness that plus it would take a comparable opponent. Heck, Angle's considered a better amateur wrestler and it took Benoit building off that with the actual pro-wrestling portions to make something happen and help make it as fluid. That said, besides Benoit and maybe Eddie, who really has the experience with that kind of matwork to do it.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 But as is proven, it would take a real great wrestler of tons of experience to actually harness that plus it would take a comparable opponent. You know, part of the problem is that Brock is forced into wrestling big-man style.
Guest Brian Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 I can't magine him being much better than a decent big man. From all the OVW reviews, he wasn't that impressive in the ring, just physically.
Guest cabbageboy Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Agreed, in OVW he wasn't remotely the biggest star or anything like that. He got some good reviews for his huge build and the shooting star press but that's about it. Leviathan was much more over in OVW.
Guest Shadow Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 About damn time someone else said it. Here's the thing: no matter how much people here bash Hunter (this is the HHHate forums, after all)- AT LEAST HUNTER IS OVER! And at least Hunter was not pushed to the moon six months after his proffesional debut! Sure, you can make all the fucking Stephanie jokes you want, but before Triple H ever even met Stephanie, he worked his ass off to get where he was. He started with a one-dimensional mid-card gimmick in '95. He didn't get much out of being a Clique member, besides being cost his KOTR '96 win. Hunter got where he is today not because he's fucking someone backstage, not because Vince gave him a monster push six months out of the gate, BUT BECAUSE HE GAVE IT HIS ALL AND GOT OVER! So HHHaters, think about it next time when you go to bash Hunter- who's really worse? Triple H, who worked his ass off to get where he is? Or Brock Lesnar, who got a monster push six months into his career? Okay, I feel better now. -Shadow
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