HHH is blindly loyal to Vince McMahon?

[Guest Downhome]

Striaght from the Torch...

 

Wrestlers are saying that they miss Steve Austin’s locker room leadership. One wrestler said, "Triple H and Undertaker are company guys... They put a pro-McMahon spin on everything where Steve always said what was up and wasn’t blindly loyal to the family..."

 

...I don't know what to say, I am in pure an utter shock.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest godthedog]

i miss him too.

 

i think taker (and maybe even trips) puts the positive spin out there because he's looked up to & wants to maintain some harmony in the locker room.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

I have a hard time believing that Triple H & Taker are "Yes Men" when they have been rumored to refuse and not put over other guys. Like Austin has been said to do.

[Guest HartFan86]

I miss Austin too. They should actually listen to Austin cause he's pretty damn straight on with most of his thoughts on the company.

 

I bet you any amount of money in the world that if the Austin was the one giving the "HHH" speech on Raw...then they would listen. Period. I know I would.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I miss 2001 Austin, not the broken down old man who walked out on the company.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

I wouldn't say "Broken down." I'd say a man who "didn't give a shit" walked out.

 

That's another reason he should be punished "IF" he ever comes back. He half assed most of his matches and gave them shit to work with. Booker T, Hall, etc.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Austin didn't half-ass his way through the Booker feud. It wasn't until the nWo showed up that he actually showed lazyness to me (the Title shot Vs. Jericho being the beginning) and at that point, I think Austin was justified in not wanting to work with Hall. Austin was heard saying "he's going to be fired in a few months, so why should I even bother?" and I tend to sympathize with him there. Why should Austin, someone who had carried the company on his back through 2001 have work with an alchoholic like Hall? I think Austin was indeed a dick in the way he burried the nWo without giving them much of a chance to get over, but I can also understand how he could feel cheated after busting his ass to carry the company and then getting de-pushed to feuding with Hall as a result.

 

And when did Austin refuse to put over other workers? The Hall thing at Wrestlemania was because the morron was drunk, and other than Jarret in '98 (which was based off of a long-standing disliking for each other) I don't think he ever refused a program with anyone.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

It's been said he refused a program with Billy Gunn in 99. In hindsight, considering how badly Billy Boy floundered against Rock(who many considered to be more over than Austin at the time), it was for the better. Doesn't make it right, by ANY means, though.

[Guest Shaved Bear]

HHH and Undertaker are looking for management recognition, while Austin didnt need it so he was more honest

[Guest RickyChosyu]

It's been said he refused a program with Billy Gunn in 99. In hindsight, considering how badly Billy Boy floundered against Rock(who many considered to be more over than Austin at the time), it was for the better. Doesn't make it right, by ANY means, though.

You know, I destinctly remember Austin going on Bite This a short time after his return in 2000 and saying that he thought Billy was one of the WWF's most promising stars, and that he would become a main-eventer one day. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't make sense to me why he would resufe a program with Billy and then say he's a future star. Maybe he thought Billy wasn't ready yet? I would have to think he would have been right on that one, too, hypothetically speaking.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

It wasn't until the nWo showed up that he actually showed lazyness to me (the Title shot Vs. Jericho being the beginning) and at that point, I think Austin was justified in not wanting to work with Hall. Austin was heard saying "he's going to be fired in a few months, so why should I even bother?" and I tend to sympathize with him there. Why should Austin, someone who had carried the company on his back through 2001 have work with an alchoholic like Hall? I think Austin was indeed a dick in the way he burried the nWo without giving them much of a chance to get over, but I can also understand how he could feel cheated after busting his ass to carry the company and then getting de-pushed to feuding with Hall as a result.

Whether or not you like who your co-workers are, a job is a job. Period. But anyway, that's not the topic. In regards to Triple H and Undertaker always putting the positive spin on things, the smarkity smark smark side of me says that's because they never have to worry about their position in the company, but the realistic thinker in me says that maybe because of that they want to make sure the other guys work hard so that the rest of the company does well, and if that takes being positive and outright pro-company (because Heaven forbid having pride in where you work ), so be it.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

It wasn't until the nWo showed up that he actually showed lazyness to me (the Title shot Vs. Jericho being the beginning) and at that point, I think Austin was justified in not wanting to work with Hall. Austin was heard saying "he's going to be fired in a few months, so why should I even bother?" and I tend to sympathize with him there. Why should Austin, someone who had carried the company on his back through 2001 have work with an alchoholic like Hall? I think Austin was indeed a dick in the way he burried the nWo without giving them much of a chance to get over, but I can also understand how he could feel cheated after busting his ass to carry the company and then getting de-pushed to feuding with Hall as a result.

Whether or not you like who your co-workers are, a job is a job. Period. But anyway, that's not the topic. In regards to Triple H and Undertaker always putting the positive spin on things, the smarkity smark smark side of me says that's because they never have to worry about their position in the company, but the realistic thinker in me says that maybe because of that they want to make sure the other guys work hard so that the rest of the company does well, and if that takes being positive and outright pro-company (because Heaven forbid having pride in where you work ), so be it.

Not liking Hall isn't really the issue. It was the fact that he didn't deserve the chance to even be working, and was frankly unsafe to wrestle, especially for someone who had plenty of nagging injuries that could be brought back if a mistake were to be made. When Hall chose to show up drunk, he negated any need for Austin to remane "profesional" by jobbing to him. What kind of example would that set for the locker room? Hall shows up acting like a jack-ass, starting problems with everyone, and then shows up drunk at Wrestlemania, and they're supposed to put him over Steve motherfucking Austin? The nWo was already semi-burried (the skits made them look terrible) but Hall burried himself, not Austin.

[Guest Austin3164life]

The thing that pissed me off the most was that McMahon turned a deaf ear to Austin. Basically, Vince was asking his top guy to:

 

1. Put over a stable that has been dead and buried with three older guys who are not really fit to wreslte.

 

2. Put over a recovering alcoholic at the biggest show of the year in a mid-card match.

 

3. Be placed in a storyline in which Bradshaw (?!!!) is Austin's partner. A storyline basically to put a new member in the nWo, the Big Show.

 

4. Put over a geniunely heatless Brock Lesnar after Austin carried pro-wrestling on his back last year and Brock was working in the WWF for only a couple of months.

 

Basically, Vince is asking Austin to allow himself to be demoted for no reason, simply to put over a lame stable, and a very very green rookie. If I was a Senior Vice President of a company and the Chairman asked me to become a secretary for a middle manager, you'd bet I would quit.

 

Of course Triple H is going to be pro-McMahon. He is dating his daughter. It has been hinted many times that Triple H has been jealous of Austin and McMahon's relationship. Whether or not Triple H had a hand in Austin's unhappiness, who knows. Like BretHart4ever said, I would rather listen to a guy like Austin than a guy like Triple H.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Ahahahah.. If one man is what was keeping the locker room glued together all these years (and I doubt it was,) then they have bigger problems than they possibly thought.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Steve Austin refused a program with JEFF JARRETT, not Billy Gunn. Jarrett was Vince's choice to carry the company with Rock while Austin took time off, not Trips. Austin refused because of Debra, and Trips was pushed instead.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Austin didn't half-ass his way through the Booker feud. It wasn't until the nWo showed up that he actually showed lazyness to me

I was talking more about his Lumber Jack match against Booker T, when Austin beat Booker T CLEAN even with help of 30 "heels" outside the ring.

[Guest Vyce]

I have a hard time believing that Triple H & Taker are "Yes Men" when they have been rumored to refuse and not put over other guys.

That's the whole point.

 

They put a positive McMahon spin on things, UNTIL it damages them. Then, they can speak out against the match or storyline, etc., and present themselves as men who stand up to management.

 

When it's all just self-serving.

[Guest Strike Force!]

I miss Austin, too. I miss EVERY SINGLE FREAKING SHOW ending with JR screaming, "What's Austin going to do??", and the last camera shot of Austin "looking pissed." Nah, that never got old.

[Guest the 1inch punch]

Steve Austin refused a program with JEFF JARRETT, not Billy Gunn. Jarrett was Vince's choice to carry the company with Rock while Austin took time off, not Trips. Austin refused because of Debra, and Trips was pushed instead.

Actauuly, he did refuse to work with Gunn, after Fully Loaded '99 (there was a resoning behind Austin coming out and stunning Jarrett, which was supposed to kick start the feud) Vince offered Austin a program with HHH, Gunn or Jarrett

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Seeing as how good a year 2000 was with HHH on top, etc. I'm glad he chose HHH. Austin needs to be back in the company because it will flounder without him. Austin still had a good 5 years left, and that ca't be said about Taker.

 

In this case, Taker will be out in a year or tweo leaving HHH all alone to "lead" the company. The Rock may not even be around then. You're talking Hogan/Bischoff here and the company will flop.

 

With the nWo pretty much gone and those guys not having to bring down the workrate for another couple of years, Taker leaving, Flair stepping aside from wrestling, there will be spots for these guys like Benoit, Booker, RVD, Jericho and Eddie. Angle will skyrocket. The company will do better.

 

Maybe I'm being naive but I really believe in HHH's backstage pull and it scares me. I don't detest him in the ring whatsoever, and even his character doesn't kill me, but this boss's daughter and Vince's ear crap aggrevates the shit out of me.

 

Thing is, if Austin comes back, there would be no way in hell he could do anything about HHH's bullshit. HHH would simply bring up the fact that Austin walked out, etc. and for Austin to be in top programs for a while he'd really have to walk on eggshells. HHH would make Austin his bitch, mark my words.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Well, from what I understand, Austin wasn't that much of a locker room "leader". He usually kept to himself and didn't really have too many friends in the back. There were a ton of guys who respected him, but he was more of those lead by example in the ring guys. HHH and Taker are the mouthy leaders. Guys who will say whatever to whoever because they can. They are the vets and have been there the longest. Austin had been known to work with folks, but there was a stretch in 98-99 where he would only work with people he felt were on his level. Now if you look at that you think, can you blame him. He's the fricking main event. But when asked to do programs with others (Gunn and Jarrett) he refused. I am an Austin fan, don't get me wrong here. But the man has played politics before. It' just that in our world (this board) we forgive him because 90% of us are Austin marks and would forgive him. In a mili-second everyone here would mark the fuck out (except El Psycho Diablo) if Austin came out at the main event of Summerslam and started beating the shit out of Brock or whoever. We just love the guy. Back to HHH and Taker, this news shouldn't shock anyone. Of course they are the McMahon spin guys. He is their meal tickets. But because of their position on the cards and the way contracts are structured, those guys are gonna protect their spots because of the money differential between ME'ers and Midcarders. It all goes back to contracts and which system is better, guarantees or incentive/spot on the card based. HHH and Taker (and Austin before he left) will continue to do these things because of the money. Once you've had a taste of the ME money, it's hard to go back down a peg. It's the sad but true economics of the business we all love.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

There is no doubt there has been some holding down by all three of those guys Austin circa 98-99, Taker in 2000. '01, and Triple H of recent time. But there IS NO WAY you can compare the politicking of austin or Taker or even Shawn to the stuff HHH is pulling now (allegedly, and I believe most of it).

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Austin needs to be back in the company because it will flounder without him.

No. It took a few years, but the WWF recovered from Hulk Hogan, they can recover from Steve Austin.

 

The problem with both guys is that the entire universe was revolving around them. Like Hogan, all you had to do was put a guy in a feud with Austin and he would be an InstaHeel. After all, he's fighting Austin! Boo! Hiss!

 

With Austin gone, Vince now has to find a reason to make people care. He eventually will, but it's a matter of how much ratings will sink and how many crappy angles we'll have to sit through until it happens.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Rock and HHH as the top heels, with RVD and Booker as the top faces in the company. But that's just me...

[Guest Brian]

Ehh, Austin probably would have been out within the next two years anyways. He was losing a step. He was probably starting to pick guys to put over, and Benoit was probably one of them.

 

Austin's refusal of Jarrett goes way, way back; but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Austin may have refused to put people over, but I don't think he was ever wrong.

 

Billy Gunn - He hasn't been shit and I doubt Austin putting him over would have made him suck less.

 

Jeff Jarrett - The guy's not a main eventer in my eyes.

 

Triple H - He wasn't ready to go over Austin yet. Austin was the biggestthing in the world for two years prior to that point. The night that Triple H earned respect in my eyes, was the night where he had to wrestle three matches to get into the six pack match.

 

NWO - He thought Hall would be gone very quickly and he was right. Nash is on the shelf and I doubt he will ever wrestle in the WWF again.

 

Lesnar - He's been pushed relentlessly and he still can't get over. Am I the only one who laughs when they see him instead of marveling at the fact that he's a hoss?

 

I can't see where Austin was wrong on any of those calls.

[Guest Black Tiger]

In 1995 when Austin was in ECW, he gave a bunch of interviews about how in WCW he never got his chance to shine thanks to Dusty, and Hogan not giving him the right guys to work with.

 

Austin went full circle, he was the one who was nixing programs with guys who could use his rub and help get over. Sounds rather hypocritical doesn' it?

[Guest -Cutthroat-]

BAW GAWD!!!!!!!!