Guest Downhome Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 First off, this isn't meant as a blatent flaming thread, I'm being totally serious. If being over isn't what constitues for someone being on TV, then what is? I see Henry, Brock, etc... on SD when there are plenty of guys over on Velocity that are much more over than any of them. Or hell, I see guys on Heat that is much more over than some on RAW. Wouldn't it make sense, business wise, to plug those that actually get a true reaction on the "big two" shows? Rikishi I suppose I can understand why he is on, as he DOES get a reaction at least. I wish the casual fans would realize his ass schitck is crap though, as I'm more than tired of seeing that. Why they pop for the ass rub of love, is beyond me. Anyhow... ...why put unover guys on TV, much less force them on us? Is it because Henry was signed to such a long term high $$$ deal? Is it because they started the Brock push and refuse to end it or at least slow it down, to keep from looking stupid? Please, can someone explain to me this mystery of Pro. Wrestling? Sincerely, ...Downhome...
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 On Rikishi.. People like gimmicks even when they're stale as hell. People loved the Worm, Too Cool's dance, the Dudleys putting people through tables, and Rikishi's stinkface.. ..but do they care about him during the match? Not really. I shoot the blame on Ross a lot..but when your talent acquisition guy is a Hoss-lover, does commentary, and has say in the way things go..well..being big/tall can't hurt your chances at getting a push.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Test: Because Shane McMahon and Test are having an affair
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Y'know..if Test is getting this much of an..erm.."push".. ..who is Lesnar sleeping with?
Guest Downhome Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Y'know..if Test is getting this much of an..erm.."push".. ..who is Lesnar sleeping with? Paul Heyman, duh!
Guest Austin3164life Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Blame Vince. He spent so much money on guys like Henry and Rikishi, that now he has to use them, or else they will waste their paycheck they get from Vinny Mac. If Vince is stupid enough to invest tons of money in guys like Mark Henry and Riksihi then it is his fault for them not being over.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 I agree with Austin, guys like Henry and Show get air time simply to justify their paycheck. HOWEVER, just because a guy is not over now does not mean he won't be over later-on. It's called BUILDING and that takes TIME. One of the Wwfs biggest problems is killing angles because they don't have enough heat rather than actually putting THOUGHT into their storylines and attempting to make it better. This said, it shouldn't take 3 years to get someone over... Ahem... Test. Mark Henry. Big Show.
Guest Goodear Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 So, who is on Velocity that is so over that we're missing out on?
Guest BoboBrazil Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Rico is on Velocity wrestling and he is extremely over, but they never give him a match on Smackdown. D'lo is on Heat and he is over and is a great performer and they stuck him in the commentary position and he never gets to wrestle on Raw now.
Guest notJames Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 I'd say Chavo, judging from his matches on Smackdown against Hurricane and Rey Rey, although it might be residual heat from his opponents. Nevertheless, if they're serious about the cruisers, they should put on at least two cruiser matches each show instead of the obligatory Noble/Nidia makeout session or a backstage Kidman cameo. And Chavo would be perfect, since he's attained that synthesis between high-flying and mat-wrestling ala Tajiri that everyone's been going on and on about. I would've hoped that his exposure on Tough Enough would have warranted him some actual TV time. Go figure.
Guest Brian Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Tajiri, Hurricane, and Chavo are all pretty over.
Guest Goodear Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 The only one of those guys that aren't on SmackDown frequently is Chavo... and he's not King of Over by any streach of the imagination. Sure, he could be used better, but he's not as over as Rikishi or anything.
Guest Angle-plex Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Brock gets TV time because.........he's big, dammit!
Guest CanadianChick Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 The only one of those guys that aren't on SmackDown frequently is Chavo... and he's not King of Over by any streach of the imagination. Sure, he could be used better, but he's not as over as Rikishi or anything. Maybe he's not as over as Rikishi, but from my estimation, he's more over than Mark Henry
Guest notJames Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 The only one of those guys that aren't on SmackDown frequently is Chavo... and he's not King of Over by any streach of the imagination. Sure, he could be used better, but he's not as over as Rikishi or anything. Maybe he's not as over as Rikishi, but from my estimation, he's more over than Mark Henry Yeah, and that big lunk still manages to get onto every Smackdown. Does the WW_ even listen to it's fans anymore? (rhetorical question of the year)
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 notJames, where possibly could the Wwf listen to their fans? It's not like they have an outlet to voice their opinion or anything. And then you have the arena crowds who don't react to Test, which means THEY don't know what's good for them. Vince made wrestling, remember, so he can just listen to himself and it has to be right.
Guest Downhome Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Shelton is going to VERY over soon, I can already hear it begining. Come on, he's got one hell of a finisher, they have to cheer him like hell eventually!
Guest Chuck Woolery Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 notJames, where possibly could the Wwf listen to their fans? It's not like they have an outlet to voice their opinion or anything. And then you have the arena crowds who don't react to Test, which means THEY don't know what's good for them. Vince made wrestling, remember, so he can just listen to himself and it has to be right. Actually... When you reply to columns at WWE.com, they have a disclaimer that says "All ideas contained, when sent, become sole property of WWE" or something to that extent. Cheers.
Guest notJames Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 notJames, where possibly could the Wwf listen to their fans? It's not like they have an outlet to voice their opinion or anything. And then you have the arena crowds who don't react to Test, which means THEY don't know what's good for them. Vince made wrestling, remember, so he can just listen to himself and it has to be right. If you mean fans that have supported the industry for X amount of years faithfully, Vince could probably look to the Internet, provided he had the time and resources to filter out all the nonsensical fanboy "Austin ROOLZ" crap and stick with the insightful criticism that's all over the place. If you mean the oh-so-important male 18-25 demographic that tends to tune in and out of wrestling on a whim, there probably is no place for a reasonable fan forum that won't deviate into some mindless "puppies" chant. However, common sense would tell you that if you have to add massive amounts of TV applause to a Mark Henry match to give him the semblance of being over on a weekly basis, perhaps he's not worth the effort to begin with. Maybe if Vince started looking back at all the things that did work (credible athletes with discernable characters that fans can relate to i.e., Austin, Hart, HBK) and remember all the shit that sank (big useless slugs who had to be pushed down everyone's throat i.e. Mabel, Giant Gonzales, überface Diesel), perhaps things would get better. Asking Vince to have a sense of perspective, however, is like asking Lillian Garcia to say "Toronto, Ontario, Canada"; i.e., it ain't gonna happen.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 I think the one word answer that you are searching for to explain why certain unover people get tv time... is... Hoss
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 But Steve Austin was a Hoss! And a Stud, too!
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Austin was from Texas...so he was an honorary hoss. HHH politicked his way into Hossness.
Guest Goodear Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 Maybe if Vince started looking back at all the things that did work (credible athletes with discernable characters that fans can relate to i.e., Austin, Hart, HBK) and remember all the shit that sank (big useless slugs who had to be pushed down everyone's throat i.e. Mabel, Giant Gonzales, überface Diesel), perhaps things would get better. Didn't Shawn and Bret fail as top of the card draws as well? It certainly wasn't as though they were hugely profitable (they weren't Diesel bad either, but they weren't good). Anyway, a company simply cannot run itself completely according to the whims of their consumers. Quite frankly, a great number of people are complete idiots and have no idea what would actually going into getting what they think they want (including me). People make unreasonable, silly requests all the time without having the faintest idea what would actually go into making them a reality. The consumer base is entirely too fickle and rapidly changing for a company to provide them with their fondest wishes at all time. Instead, a company has to try and make a consumer want what they are providing. That is how you become profitable.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 At the same time... If a company repeatedly forces their own thing while ignoring what the fans want... it will drive people away. Not all people...but enough to be a noticeable decline.
Guest notJames Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 That's especially true of your core audience. When wCW flirted with a more Sportz Entertainment direction, then no only failed to attract new fans, they failed to keep the ones that had been watching from the start. I'm all for tweaking a product to change with the times and trends, but pro wrestling has many solid staples that shouldn't be toyed with; solid in-ring performers, credible characters that fans can relate to or admire, and storylines that not only engage the imagination of the viewers, but make sense. WW_ is failnig to adhere to be consistent in all three.
Guest Goodear Posted August 13, 2002 Report Posted August 13, 2002 That's especially true of your core audience. When wCW flirted with a more Sportz Entertainment direction, then no only failed to attract new fans, they failed to keep the ones that had been watching from the start. I'm all for tweaking a product to change with the times and trends, but pro wrestling has many solid staples that shouldn't be toyed with; solid in-ring performers, credible characters that fans can relate to or admire, and storylines that not only engage the imagination of the viewers, but make sense. WW_ is failnig to adhere to be consistent in all three. I disagree about one thing there NotJames... I don't think people really do go in for characters they can relate to, but rather characters they wish they could be (I guess that's covered by the "or admire" portion of your post). Looking at the most successful draws in history and you're going to see a whole lot more cartoonish characters like Hogan, Rock, Savage, and Austin then you will... I dunno... Ricky Steamboats. It's really more becoming the character people wish they could be, instead of being an actual, real person people can relate to.
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