Why Heel Jericho CAN'Tbe booked strong

[Guest Goodear]

I've been thinking about Chris Jericho quite a bit recently and how his career has been mishandled for a while now as a heel. About how he can't seem to defeat anyone, including Matt Hardy and Mark Herny cleanly. Then I got to thinking... well shoot Mark (that's my name), how is he supposed to do that anyway? See folks, in my mind, there are basically three catagories of heels (that I'll describe below) and quite frankly, Jericho doesn't seem to display the tools that could conceivably put him in the two "strong" catagories.

 

First off let us start with the two stronger catagories. The first is the "VaderHeels" who are basically imposing guys who get match heat by laying beatings down on their opposition by either being big, stiff or a combination of the two. The key component is that they can lay down a believable beating on basically anyone. Jericho just does not bring the physical skills needed to pull off this role. How is he supposed to physically dominate anyone when he's a 2-5'' shorter and 50 pounds lighter than even the average-sized WWE wrestler? Fans just aren't going to buy Jericho going out their and kicking ass like they would for a stiffer Benoit or a bigger Kane. It's just not going to work.

 

The second strong-heel catagory are "FlairHeels" that get heat by picking a part of the body and working it over for an extended period of time. By working a body part, it allows the fans to empathize with the face and show concern for their welfare. The problem with Jericho is that his offence is comnpletely skattershot. Watch a Jericho match and you'll see him attack virtually every part of his opponent's body instead of working the back to sell the danger of the Walls of Jericho. It's any wonder the move isn't really over. It doesn't get many submissions, but why should it within the context of a Jericho match where he puts no pressure on the back until the actual Boston crab? Jericho's lack of psychology keeps him from being booked strongly in this style.

 

And finally you have the "HonkyHeels" who basically sneak and scrape and cheat their way to victory at every opportunity because they aren't able to sell the other two forms of heeldom. These are the heels that look weak because they just can't seem to deliver "real" punishment effectively. Sadly, this is where Jericho is stuck.

 

Personally, I think the best place for Jericho would be as a underdog face... but as a heel, he just cannot be booked to look string. He's not built for it and doesn't wrestle like it. How he can be booked strong as is, is beyond my understanding.

 

 

 

(Of course, there are exceptions to the 3Heel Theory... Randy Savage and Eddie Guerrero come to mind... but these are rare exceptions and don't come around everyday.)

[Guest Razor Roman]

I agree, I think Jericho would be better off as an underdog babyface... I've thought that for a long time now.

 

Even if he didn't win any titles that way, or held them for a long time, he'd still probably move a ton of merchandise and be way over as long as he one once or twice a year :-)

[Guest the pinjockey]

I really don't think he was booked as a "Honkyheel". The difference between them would be that Honky would cheat himself but Jericho wouldn't cheat for himself in the matches other people not involved with Jericho would cheat for him.

 

Vengeance

Vs. Rock : Vince interfered

Vs. Austin : Vince and Booker interfered

 

Both of these were set up to show that Vince did not want the others to have the title so he becomes the main focus, he wasn't cheating for Jericho.

 

RR:

Vs. Rock : Storm and Christian interfered

Then put feet on ropes for win

 

The Canadian Mafia deal never wen't anywhere so they were never associated as a group which means Jericho didn't directly cheat again.

But then he cheated at the end which could have been the start of something.

 

No Way Out:

Vs. Austin : NWO interfered

 

Jericho had nothing to do with that he was handed the title yet again.

 

Then lost the title next month. Another aspect for a Honkyheel is you have to keep the title on him until the fans are jumping over the rails trying to help someone beat him. A three month reign with only a couple big matches dosen't really qualify.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

He needs running buddies...

 

Shawn was one of the main smaller babyfaces...and he always had someone watching his back....Sherri, Nash, DX...

 

And he didn't ALWAYS cheat to win...just most of the time...and it worked.

 

I don't think Jericho will ever be a credible heel

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

I figure Jericho gets help from the UnAmericans at SummerSlam to beat Flair and he joins the group. He fits the role (Canadian and pissed off - he can direct that towards America)

[Guest the incomparable]

I completely agree with the running buddies comment. I think the only way that Jericho could be an effective main event heel in the future, is if he is the centerpiece of a four or five man faction, and the faction's main objective is either helping him win the world title or helping him keep the world title. At least this way his cheating wouldn't bury him, but instead put himself and the group over.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Bad Idea. Jericho will over shadow the group and no one will care about them.

[Guest CanadianChris]

They will if it's booked right. Look at the original Four Horsemen.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Okay, *I* don't want to see Storm & Christian as Jericho's Lackies.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The problem with Jericho's screw job wins were that he never had anything to do with them. He just got lucky over, and over, and over again. Plus, the only clean pin he ever got over that run as champion was over Maven. That was it. Mark Henry, Rikishi, and Big Show all made him their personal bitches until he sneaked away with a win or get himself DQed. It was said. He needed a group of running buddies to legitamize him. Shawn (and later HHH) had DX. Bret had the Hart Foundation. Rock had the corperation. Jericho could have used the Canadian Mafia in the same way.

 

Personally, I think Jericho should have just gone with the Owenzegirri as a finisher. It looks stiff, painfull, comes out of no-where, and could be put over as capable of damn near knocking out anyone. The Breakdown, while pretty cool looking, doesn't really work on someone bigger than Jericho.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Im sorry, but if the UnAmericans are to get over and successful for any length of time, they at least need a leader type figure to join, and I can't figure anyone else who would fit the role better than Jericho (seeing as though they have to be on RAW)

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Personally, I would have prefered if Edge had turned on Hogan and joined the group, but then, that would have prevented him from being the sacrificial lamb for Brock.

 

Now that they're on Raw, Jericho is the best choice. Especially since he's feuding with Flair, it's only natural for him to have his own Four Horsemen-esque stable.

[Guest Goodear]

The problem with Jericho's screw job wins were that he never had anything to do with them. He just got lucky over, and over, and over again. Plus, the only clean pin he ever got over that run as champion was over Maven. That was it. Mark Henry, Rikishi, and Big Show all made him their personal bitches until he sneaked away with a win or get himself DQed.

Yes, but the point of my post was "How do you put Jericho over cleanly?" He's not physical enough to run over those guys and doesn't use psychology enough to wear them down. The remaining heel option for Jericho, sadly, is to cheat like the dickens. He just doesn't lend himself towards being a strong heel. Even if he had Canadian running buddies, it would still look as though he couldn't really win on his own (i.e. look weak).

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Yes, I suppose you're right, but they could have gotten the Walls over as a credible finisher if they wanted, as well as the Breakdown.

 

I think your "wear down" arguement is a little out of touch: Kurt rarely does moves to set up the Ankle Lock, and that's taken as a legit finisher, (well, kind of).

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

My two biggest problems with Jericho: Moveset execution and booking. One he doesn't have control over, the other he's blowing on his own. Jericho is just completely unmotived (with good reason). He's sloppy. He looks like he's going through the motions of the match instead of telling a story. That is one aspect that holds him down, though for me, the biggest. I just can't buy him in the ring anymore. Add to that, his moveset has been dwindling down since his debut. First the double powerbomb, then it was having to half ass the Liontamer (which can look absolutely brutal), the springboard drop kick, the double underhook backbreaker. You get the picture. Now he's got a series of weak forearms, a weak boston crab and lionsault that's been kick out of so many times it's about as useful as sneezing on a guy. It's hard accepting this guy as any kind of threat.

 

Then comes the booking. This we all know is something that hasn't really been in his favor. Or rather, how he's booked in the ring. I think Vince sees potential in the guy, or he wouldn't have given the fucking Unified title for 4 months. He's just not booked in the traditional main event chicken shit heel sense. He should beg off, he should cheat, he should get his ass kicked by the face. ALL heels do this. Even Hunter in 2000. Shawn Michaels pretty much did the same schtick Jericho is going now back in 1997. BUT unlike Jericho, when they were in control, there is a sense that they can tear their opponents apart. They may have to cheat to gain the upperhand, but they don't necessarily have to cheat to win. Jericho has pretty much been everyone's bitch. Hell, I think I'VE pinned him this year. His programs with HHH (where Jericho only gets to look completely amatuerish, thanks Hunter) haven't any as well. Just look at his promo this Monday. First off, KEEP JERICHO AWAY FROM HHH! Second, HHH looked completely unimpressed with Chris. Like he was some 12 year old kid trying to talk to the grown ups in the room. These guys are the Bret and Shawn of this Generation. Despite real life heat, they still fucking work together on a seemingly regular basis. Which does nothing for both guys as nothing is resolved.

 

I don't know. I want Jericho to get over as the heel we all know he can be, but it seems hopeless. Flair's rub is pretty much gone, so I don't think a program, let alone a win, will help much. The only thing that could get him over is another awesome fued with the Rock or the inevitable (and stale) face turn.

[Guest Trivia247]

Kinda strange that Jericho coming out of the Dungeon which every wrestler coming out of it had a strong leaning towards submission moves he didn't develope any building ring psychology for it.

 

 

Jericho's heel character was crafted long before WWE Flamboyant arrogant little guy who does mocking parodies piss off his opponents so they make mistakes.

 

iN our minds he probably would be taken better as a face going against bigger opponents than a heel against bigger opponents. He does those Hit and run tactics better for bigger pops.

 

I think for him to maintain as a Monster heel he needs a Higher impact finisher which would convincingly bring down a guy the size of a Kane or Taker. Hard to do that with the arsenal he got, Quebrada, Full nelson Front legsweep, Sleeping neckbreaker, Elevated crab nah not in there. If they don't do that then make him the Unsung leader of the Unamericans. He came over with them, They ran in for him in the past. hell history wise he tagged with Storm in the thrillseekers. Jericho would be the Eddie Guerrero of the LWO and just order out the troops without getting too much dirt on him, until he goes after a title belt.

 

From what we seen of his 3 or 4 month World title run, one word seems to come to mind.....LUCKY and thats bad for a Experienced wrestler who been all over the world. His first world title stint and he isn't convincely over? kinda sad.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Ok, seriously, the double power bomb was a spot he was using on guys who weighed like 210 pounds at most, and being used in the WWE as a heavyweight, there's no way he was going to keep that. Seriously.

 

I do believe he's become unmotivated, but this is a product of the inept booking, not the cause for it.

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

Ok, seriously, the double power bomb was a spot he was using on guys who weighed like 210 pounds at most, and being used in the WWE as a heavyweight, there's no way he was going to keep that. Seriously.

Benoit, Road Dogg and Angle all took the double powerbomb. And Jericho is bigger than he was 3 years ago. And even then I'm not saying he's gonna be pulling it on the likes of Show and Taker or Rikishi. HHH, and Rock I see no problem taking. If they can, then most of the roster can.

 

I do believe he's become unmotivated, but this is a product of the inept booking, not the cause for it.

 

That's what I was implying with: "Jericho is just completely unmotived (with good reason)."

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Ok, seriously, the double power bomb was a spot he was using on guys who weighed like 210 pounds at most, and being used in the WWE as a heavyweight, there's no way he was going to keep that. Seriously.

Benoit, Road Dogg and Angle all took the double powerbomb. And Jericho is bigger than he was 3 years ago. And even then I'm not saying he's gonna be pulling it on the likes of Show and Taker or Rikishi. HHH, and Rock I see no problem taking. If they can, then most of the roster can.

 

I do believe he's become unmotivated, but this is a product of the inept booking, not the cause for it.

 

That's what I was implying with: "Jericho is just completely unmotived (with good reason)."

Even when doing it to Malenko, it was obvious that Dean was grabbing his arms to assist him with the move. If he did it on some bulked up piece of muscle like Trips, it would either be blown, or look really, really bad.

 

Not to mention it's a moot point anyway.

[Guest Austin3164life]

I share similar views on Chris Jericho. While I recognize he is a highly talented worker, I can't seem to fall in love with his offense/matches. His offense is good and crisp, yet too broad and scattered and he really doesn't focus on any one aspect of the match, especially psychology wise. However, I feel he can be the Flair heel, but he's just not booked that way. He's been getting a lot of heat lately, and I feel he's been on a roll for the past two/three weeks.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Bad Idea. Jericho will over shadow the group and no one will care about them.

They will if it's booked right. Look at the original Four Horsemen.

Yea, but look at the Nation of Domination.

 

In regards to Jericho not having a defined "heel style" in the ring, I never really noticed before, but that's pretty true. Maybe if they place him in a few feuds with over cruiserweights like Billy Kidman, he can become the "cruiserweight monster" that I've heard he was in WCW. Although that still wouldn't really help him when facing "normal guys". In regards to the Walls not being built up, this is true, but in any physical environment such as wrestling, since the back has to support the rest of the body, it'll be worn down anyway...

 

Even though Jericho's probably "best off" as an underdog face, I hate his face character... like The Rock, it gets really stale really fast.

[Guest the pinjockey]

What they need to do with Jericho is just let him loose as a pain in the ass rather than a cocky heel. Remember a couple of weeks ago on Raw when he and RVD had the opening segment. They brawled a little Jericho kicked him ran out of the ring and started showing off that is what he should be doing. Most of the time he either gets punked out or jumps somebody and says "I'm king of the world". He should go back to what he was when he first came to the WWF. The character that the fans decided to cheer before he was turned into the typical catchphrase whore. If the fans decided to boo the smartass heel character then that is good if they decide to cheer it so be it but do not change the character to a face just change the feuds.

[Guest Zero_Cool]

ideas for a new Jericho finisher....

 

Double Arm DDT - The last guy I've seen use it was Mick Foley, he is retired...and, anyone can be hit with it.

 

Tiger Suplex - It would be credible...however, I don't know if Jericho could hit the bigger guys with it.

 

Piledriver - If they gave him any sort of piledriver, and let only him have one as a finisher, he could get a lot more heat, based only on the fact that he has a piledriver while no one else does.

 

Uranage - Hell, you might as well, with Rock leaving again for a new movie. If you need more originality, add a twist to the move, so he rotates the victim ninety degrees...

 

Any of those sound at least mediocre?

[Guest deadbeater]

You forgot another type of heel: Michael Hayes heel. Usually leader of a bad guy group, creates heat by interfering in other people's matches, his buddies interfering in his matches, and having his buddies take the punishment that's due him. He is usually grouped with another technically sound, but silent, partner, and a HOSS.

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

You forgot another type of heel: Michael Hayes heel. Usually leader of a bad guy group, creates heat by interfering in other people's matches, his buddies interfering in his matches, and having his buddies take the punishment that's due him. He is usually grouped with another technically sound, but silent, partner, and a HOSS.

That's probably where Raven got his idea for being a heel, I think he and other Flock members did the same things in WCW that Hayes did, especially when Kidman used to run to the ring and get there before every other Flock member did only to get thrown out.

[Guest MichaelColeRulez]

Becuase of HHH and JR broadcasting skills. They need Michael Cole to put him over strong. Then it will be perfect.