RVD turning heel=Goldmine

[Guest Shanghai Kid 2002]

Think about it for a second. If RVD turned heel, not an evil angry heel, but a cocky arrogant heel, than it would be a goldmine. I'm talking if he goes back to his ECW days and gives those type of interviews where he talks about the faces being inferior to him and how nobody in the company can match him. Let him hold the IC title for a while as a heel and he'd quicky be the number one heel. The reason why RVD was so over in the Invasion was because the fans loved to cheer somebody on the other side, they loved the defiance of it all. As strange as it sounds, RVD as a face is nowhere near as popular as RVD as a heel. Honestly, do you really see RVD in his current character main eventing a Wrestlemania? He gets no mic time and hasn't had any strong heels to work with to make himself more popular.

 

A feud with HHH could be great, but if it just buries RVD, than what's next for him? He may still be over, but people won't ever look at him like the Rock or HHH or any other solidified main eventer. The only midcarder with the credibility to go from the main event to the midcard constantly is Kurt Angle.

 

Anyway, RVD will likely not turn heel in the next couple of months (maybe years). Personally, I think it would work in the same way that RVD in ECW worked or Rock as the Corporate champ. The only thing is, once he got really over as the cool, popular heel, he'd have to turn face again.

 

Anybody else think that RVD as a heel would be good? He seems to be in the same posistion that Jericho was where he couldn't get into the main event as a face, but as a heel got there and won the title.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I laid out the only way I thought RVD turning heel could work...

 

and even that didn't work.

 

The cocky heel won't work in the WWE...cause RVD's cocky already...and they love it.

 

I've been calling for one though...because it would give RVD some direction.

 

The next time he has a direction will be the first.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"Honestly, do you really see RVD in his current character main eventing a Wrestlemania? He gets no mic time and hasn't had any strong heels to work with to make himself more popular. "

 

He doesn't need heels to make himself popular.

 

Unlike the guys spit out by the WWE machine...RVD just is.

 

 

Also...Brock doesn't get much mic time either...and he seems to have gotten pretty far.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Hell, it didn't work in ECW. He's over for his ring work after all, so the only way to not be cheered is to change his ring style--and that would suck. However, generally some one about to be a breakout star in WWE doesn't do it as a face, but as a heel. They first have to be massively over as a heel, THEN are turned face. So likely he'll be turned heel before such a push would happen...

 

And it probably wouldn't have good results.

[Guest chirs3]

It would take a miracle for RVD to be over as a heel. The fans love him too much.

 

And he wasn't a heel during the inVasion. Sometimes he was booked against good guys, but he was never a really a heel. He was a good guy who just happened to hang around the others. Really, was he ever viewed in a negative light? Backstage, he was always against Steve Austin, who WAS a heel, or Booker T, who WAS a heel.

[Guest the pinjockey]

"Honestly, do you really see RVD in his current character main eventing a Wrestlemania?"

 

Considering his current character is the most over face in the entire company then yes I think his character should main event a Wrestlemania.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

He was a heel until the match at Invasion started.

 

He even hit MAtt Hardy with a chair before that match with Jeff.

 

Then the bell rang and the fans never looked back.

 

He can't play a heel.

 

He was over as a heel in ECW for a brief amount of time because of his fake WWF ties as Mr. Monday Night...He even delivered 2 good heel promos at Barely Legal and got good heel heat.

 

But it didn't last.

 

Someone does a split legged moonsault...people cheer. His moves aren't booable to a live crowd.

 

And he isn't a good wrestler...so he can't cut out the spots.

 

RVD = Face 4 Life

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

It's true. Guys like RVD and Rey Rey don't make good heels. Not because they can't, but because of thier style.

 

It's the same reason Tajiri and Knoble and Chavo aren't using thier crazy shit right now. People cheer thier asses off for big spots. It's why no one was a heel in ECW, because the heels had big spots too, and the crowd cheered for everyone.

 

It's the same reason we haven't seen the Brock SSP either, because when he eventualy does do it, the crowd will cheer him for life. The only way for RVD to turn heel would be to cut out his big spots, and then he would blow.

[Guest Ozymandias]

He gets no mic time

But that doesn't really matter. RVD isn't over in spite of not working the mic, he's over because of it. It makes him unique because he doesn't do 10-20 min interviews like the rest of the roster. The fans notice that - in spite of his enormous popularity - he doesn't talk much (when all other wrestlers in his position would) and it makes him stick out in their minds.

 

Unlike other non-speakers (Albert, Mark Henry etc.) who have the "boring" stigma because of their lack of mic skills, RVD obviously has a lot of charisma, so instead of it just looking like he sucks on the mic it's makes him seem mysterious.

 

He's got the best of both worlds, giving him more mic time would fuck that up.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

I seriously doubt the fans mark for RVD because he doesnt talk.

 

The smarks might, but no way everyone does

[Guest Ozymandias]

But I think its part of it. Whether people are conciously aware or not - its something distinctive that he has that no one else does.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

No, the Rolling Thunder, 5-Star Frog Splash, insane kicks and off the rope jumping maneuvers is what makes him different

 

Not getting little mic time.

[Guest Ozymandias]

Yeah, but....SHUT UP!

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

*shrugs* ok

[Guest Dames Edna]

Steve Austin turned heel in 2001 - so RVD would be able to as well. Well Austin is THAT much better than RVD at understanding how to work the crowd so maybe it wouldn't work.

[Guest ISportsFan]

He's over for his ring work after all, so the only way to not be cheered is to change his ring style--and that would suck.

If going heel means changing his ring style, I'm all for it. If he goes heel, then he doesn't have to sell for much of the match. That way, he can do all his offense and not have to worry about making Benoit's submission matwork look terrible (like at SummerSlam).

 

But, then he'll probably go back to posing (like in ECW) instead of actually letting better workers use transitions for him, so we'd have a wash in terms of quality.

 

By the way, I was totally digging the WWE version of RVD in the ring until SummerSlam, when he totally lost ALL my respect for not being able to act like his arm is in pain.

 

Jason

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

Speaking personally, and bearing in mind that I've no experience of RVD from his ECW days, I think that RVD's lack of intensity (not in the Triple H sense, I should hasten to add) really hurts his character.

 

The guy never seems to give two fucks about anything.

 

"You've got an intercontinental title shot at Summerslam"

"Whatever"

 

"You've won the intercontinental title"

"Whatever"

 

A couple of months back he tried to act pissed off at Regal and it was embarrassing - it's hard (for me) to throw my support at someone who doesn't appear to give two tugs of a dead dogs cock about what he's doing.

 

His matches always have at least one or two little things that grab the attention, but as a whole there's a certain formulaic feel to them that has sucked (my) interest from his in-ring work over time.

 

Now that's all in reference to the character, I'm sure that Rob himself is very caring and passionate about his craft.

[Guest godthedog]

rvd was a heel when he first came into the wwf, and he didn't give a shit about it. he went in the ring to GET HIMSELF OVER, period. there's nothing wrong with trying to get yourself over, & he wouldn't be where he is now if he hadn't, but the man had no concern AT ALL with trying to be a good heel. heels are supposed to try to make the crowd pop for the other guy. heels on the offense are supposed to be methodical and not flashy; so when the babyface makes his comeback with all the speed & the flashy moves, it naturally excites the crowd more and they pop. rvd either had no concept of this, or he didn't care about it. all his matches were "okay, i'm gonna do some cool spots, & my opponent's gonna do some other cool spots, & the crowd will love it." he made no effort in the ring to be booed. notice how, when austin turned heel, he stopped using the thesz press? it's a move that pops the crowd, and austin, trying consciously NOT to make the crowd pop for him, had to discard it.

 

rob van dam will never be over as a heel, because he wrestles the exact same way, whether he's a heel or a face. if he turned heel, he'd never give the fans a reason to boo him. he could draw some major heat by teasing big spots (like rolling thunder or split-legged moonsault), & then doing something simple like choking or whatever. but he'd never do that, it just isn't his style.

[Guest Mad Dog]

Austin was never that over as a heel. Hell he was practically pushing over old ladies in a desperate attempt to get heel heat for the first couple of months. It wasn't till Benoit and Jericho hit the scene that he got any decent reaction.

[Guest cabbageboy]

People forget a few things here: a few guys like RVD and Kidman were never pushed as heels within ECW/WCW. At that point they were still thinking of the Alliance having their own show so they likely wanted RVD as a pseudo heel when fighting the WWF, but as a face on the WCW/ECW show (which never happened). You can't really have it both ways.

 

I mean, I never heard that RVD went against company orders to do all his wild stuff and get himself over.

 

RVD as a heel is even cooler and more kick ass than as a face....hell he was at his ultra coolest in ECW as a cocky asshole heel.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Austin got great heel heat once he started getting into the character. At first it was dificult, but that was because the fans (and Austin himself, probably) didn't want the heel turn to happen. Once everyone (including him) got used to it, he was awesome and a perfect fit to carry the company.

[Guest NoCalMike]

RVD was way over as the cocky heel in ECW. He started out as neither, just a guy who could work with Sabu, and the fans respected it. So he would get pops out of respect, not for being a face so much. Then he aligned himself with Taz and Fonzie and became a heel. Then when Fonzie turned on Taz, RVD joined Sabu. RVD wasn't really a face until ECW needed to use his in-ring style to get the entire company over in the later days of ECW. He worked just fine as a cocky heel, but working in WWE is another story only because the majority of fans in the crowd just follow who JR says is good or bad. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it is just how it is........

[Guest Aroen]

I just wanted to add that RVD can cut some pretty cool promos. Check out the "cocky heel" promo he cut on Shinzaki and Hayabusa at Heatwave 98 or all those other promos were he was supposedly "smoking out" before his matches.

 

'Fonzie, can you smell anything?'

 

'No, I don't smell nothin' daddy!'

 

'Are my eyes ok?'

 

'You look great daddy!'

 

'Ok cool. Everyone wants to know when Mr. PPV is gonna drop the title...blah blah blah.'

 

 

The guy can talk. He just needs direction in that dept. as well.

[Guest deadbeater]

RVD doesn't even need a mic to get over. Eddy G ran him down, asked him who does he think is. Without a mic, RVD said, "Who am I? I am--" points to self. The fans ate it like it was chocolate.

 

After all no one gets as high as RVD. He can't be too stiff though, he has to fight Trips soon.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I think it should be said...

 

I keep reading about RVD's "much needed intensity"

 

or his "much needed mic skills"

 

or his "much needed selling ability (which is the only thing that sportsfan ever posts about anymore)"

 

But...um...

 

Why does he NEED any of that? It won't get him more over...and the only people who care about it are on the internet...and as the WWE has made very very clear: They don't cater to the internet.

 

When he's as over as he is...

 

it stands to reason that everyone not as over as he is (a majority of the roster...including the champion) need more work than he does...just to get to his level.

[Guest CanadianChick]

You know what the only thing that RVD "needs"? Its a chance for elevation from WWE.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Amen to that.

 

He's over without direction, push or storyline.

 

So what happens if we give him those things?

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Let's push Brock

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

At times I get the feeling that RVD is almost a novelty act - something the fans like to pop for but don't really care for, just like Rikishi's dancing for instance.

 

RVD...it rolls off the tongue...live crowds eat that kind of thing up.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

RVD carried ECW. For that magical two-year reign, RVD WAS ECW. After he left the focus shifted to Credible and Rhyno and the fans didn't buy it.

 

I think RVD could be "THE GUY" in WWE if they give him a real shot. Hell, I'll say it now RVD is the perfect man to carry the WWE until they find the next Hogan/Austin phenomenon and wrestling is "cool" again.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Well yeah but ECW was practically bankrupt when the focus was shifted to Credible and Rhino. I thought the idea was eventually to build to a Rhino/RVD match of some sort, at least that is what the last ECW PPV hinted at. Of course given the fact that Heyman botched every other potentially huge RVD match (RVD/Taz, RVD/Awesome, even RVD/Justin), it never happened.

 

The guy is over without a really well thought out angle in the past YEAR. All we need is something to really let the fans get to know RVD...maybe one of those sit down interviews a la Foley?