Guest ShooterJay Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 I've noticed a trend with recent WWE main eventers' paths to a permanent upper tier slot. It almost always takes them around four years to hit their peak as a draw and a performer: Rock: Debuted in 1996....peaked in 2000 HHH: Debuted late 1995/early 1996....peaked late 1999/early 2000 Jericho: Debuted mid-1999....peaked early 2002 (debateable) Austin was the exception, debuted early 1996 and peaking mid-1998, but he was a phenomenon. Now Angle it looks like Angle is hitting his peak in 2003, and he debuted mid/late 1999. I'm not sure what this means exactly, whether it's coincidence or an example of "dues paying." Just something interesting I thought I'd point out.
Guest DawnBTVS Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 Bret Hart debuted in 1985 but peaked around 1991-1992. Undertaker came in 1990(?) and peaked around 1996/1997. Shawn Michaels came in 1990 and peaked around 1995/1996. Kinda interesting considering the current ME peaks that you mentioned.
Guest Angle Armbar Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 Jericho's an exception, since he was gold in WCW. I'd say Rock peaked in '99, since the fans were tiring of his character by 2000. HHH has never been ME caliber. There's still a long way to go for Angle to reach his peak. First off, he needs to chance to be shown as a serious character. One show does not guarantee that. That saying, Angle is a definite star if given the chance.
Guest The Superstar Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 HHH has never been ME caliber. Oh, he WAS in 2000. His game (no pun) was on, having ***** matches at RR and NWO, ****+ affairs at Backlash, Judgment Day, Fully Loaded, and No Mercy, as well as tons of awesome matches on Raw and Smackdown. He *was* DEFINITELY main event caliber. It took them a while to shove him down our throats enough, but it eventually worked.
Guest KanadianKrusty Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 Yokozuna came in 92 and "peaked" in 94.
Guest Angle Armbar Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 HHH has never been ME caliber. Oh, he WAS in 2000. His game (no pun) was on, having ***** matches at RR and NWO, ****+ affairs at Backlash, Judgment Day, Fully Loaded, and No Mercy, as well as tons of awesome matches on Raw and Smackdown. He *was* DEFINITELY main event caliber. It took them a while to shove him down our throats enough, but it eventually worked. I knew someone would say this, and I simply disagree. I don't care how many **** he had in his matches, like most fans and the people who make the decisions in WWE. Foley was the only reason the RR and NWO matches are regarded so highly. You could have put a stick against him and people would have cared. To be in the ME, it's all about how entertaining you are, and how much you're pushed. HHH got over completely due to the latter. His 20-minute yawners were in full effect by 2000, and his slow, brawling matches weren't exactly entertaining. The few marks that marked for HHH back then only did because he won all the time, and he was verbally blowjobbed by WWE as the hardest worker in the business. He never got over on anything he did, he was over because he was a heel that won clean 90% of the time, and was never afraid of anyone after the Foley feud. You could stick anyone into that role, and they would succeed. I don't think HHH is much worse today, except that he's stuffed even more down our throats, and there's nobody that looks remotely as strong as him on Raw.
Guest Gimmick Poster.com Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 Dude, you suck at gimmick posting. Leave the snobby wrestling fan gimmick to me. Okay, bitch? With that said, I never liked HHH. He's always been just an okay wrestler that got over only becuase he was always put in the ring with those better than himself. Of course, I really didn't figure this out until March of last year, but I'm sure *I* hated him when everyone else was marking huge. Oh yeah. Push Benoit and Bring back Eddie's mullet because he's a RUDO DICK HEEL~! RUDO DICK HEEL~!
Guest Mole Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 HHH has never been ME caliber. Oh, he WAS in 2000. His game (no pun) was on, having ***** matches at RR and NWO, ****+ affairs at Backlash, Judgment Day, Fully Loaded, and No Mercy, as well as tons of awesome matches on Raw and Smackdown. He *was* DEFINITELY main event caliber. It took them a while to shove him down our throats enough, but it eventually worked. I knew someone would say this, and I simply disagree. I don't care how many **** he had in his matches, like most fans and the people who make the decisions in WWE. Foley was the only reason the RR and NWO matches are regarded so highly. You could have put a stick against him and people would have cared. To be in the ME, it's all about how entertaining you are, and how much you're pushed. HHH got over completely due to the latter. His 20-minute yawners were in full effect by 2000, and his slow, brawling matches weren't exactly entertaining. The few marks that marked for HHH back then only did because he won all the time, and he was verbally blowjobbed by WWE as the hardest worker in the business. He never got over on anything he did, he was over because he was a heel that won clean 90% of the time, and was never afraid of anyone after the Foley feud. You could stick anyone into that role, and they would succeed. I don't think HHH is much worse today, except that he's stuffed even more down our throats, and there's nobody that looks remotely as strong as him on Raw. Triple-Juice was defienlty the man in 2000. His matches with Foley were what got him over the top, to be a dominate heel. Here are his PPV matches, and how well he did in them: Royal Rumble: Foley - **** 3/4 match. Told a great story, how Triple-Juice had to pull everything out of the bag to beat Mick. No Way Out: Foley(Hell in the Cell) - *****. I've actually never seen this match, but from what I have read this is a great match also. WrestleMania - Foley/Rock/Show - *** 1/4. Match was pretty bad until Show and Foley were elminated. 4-way matches never really work, including this one. Backlash - Rock - **** 1/2. Anther great match, with Rock and Triple-Juice bringing down the house. Now don't give me the crap that Rock carried Juice, because that didn't happen. Both men carried each other to the ****1/2 match. Judgement Day - Rock (IronMan Match)- **** 3/4. Leading up to this match, people said this couldn't be done. However, they sure brought the house down. Not only was this a great match, but the match was booked very well. See, these guys could actually be pinned more than once, other than another IronMan match we all know. IMHO, better than HBK/Bret. KOTR - Vince/Shane vs Rock/Taker/Kane - *. This match just sucked. But what do you expect with Taker, Kane, and Vince in this one? Plus, I don't think KOTR is allowed to be a good PPV. It just won't ever happen. Fully Loaded - Jericho(Last Man Standing) - ****3/4. Another great match out of Triple-Juice. They both rocked the house down with this one. SummerSlam- Rock/Angle - ***1/2. I'm not a fan of Triple-Threat matches, it slows the flow of the match down a whole bunch. Still, a decent match. Unforgiven - Angle - **1/4. This match just sucked. I didn't like this match at all, especially the ending. They ruined a great feud with Juice winning. And I don't understand why this was so bad. No Mercy - Benoit - ****1/4. Another kick ass match, Benoit should of won though. Survivor Series - SCSA - *. I say this match blew because Austin was just back from his injury, and yeah. Nothing more to say. Armegeddon - Angle/FatMan/Taker/Rock/SCSA(Hell in the Cell) - ***1/2. Surprisingly this cluster-fest was a good match. Still a decent match though. I could go on with Triple-Juice's awesome 16 months, but I'm gonna stop here. When a man averages about ***+ matches, I ask, how is that not ME caliaber? If you give kick ass matches, that is entertaining. Yes, he was pushed down our throats. However, he was pushed down our throats and it finally paid off when he had his 16-month run of greatness. And not only were his matches entertaining, but so were his feuds. The Rock, Jericho, Foley, and most of all Angle. The feud with Angle was one of the best in 2000. It could of been the best of 2000, if Angle just of won the Unforgiven match. But that is another rant. Now, Triple-Juice is much worse. He doesn't use half of his old moveset, is really slow in the ring, and is plaqued with injuries. That is why he sucks now. And you say his brawling style is really boring. What do you think SCSA did later in his career? Since he injured his neck, he had to switch his wrestling style from technical to brawling. They fought the same type of matches. Mick Foley made his career from bumping like hell, and brawling. How often did you see Mick wrestle a technical match? Not very often. Do you see what I am saying? I mean, you are allowed to have your opinion on what you think is good or not. However, just look at why Triple-Juice was the man, and see that he has gone down the tube ever since his poor quad got injured. If Triple-Juice was still the man in his matches, I would have no problem with him right now. I mean, I wouldn't like what he is doing, but atleast he would be entertaining in the ring, like he used to be. I can't believe I just spent 40 minutes of my time defending Triple-Juice, but at one point in his wrestling career, he was the man, and I am sure everyone will tell you that.
Guest Mole Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 One more thing I forgot the mention, Triple-Juice did have the best match of 2001 with SCSA at No Way Out, IMHO.
Guest godthedog Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 One more thing I forgot the mention, Triple-Juice did have the best match of 2001 with SCSA at No Way Out, IMHO. you better hope rickychosyu doesn't read that.
Guest Brian Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 That was even Austin's best match that year. He topped it easily with Benoit and Rock, arguably in the quad tag.
Guest Mole Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 That was even Austin's best match that year. He topped it easily with Benoit and Rock, arguably in the quad tag. I never saw the Benoit match from Smackdown, so I can't comment about that. However, I still think the NWO match was better than the Rock match from WM and the famous tag match from Raw. Yes, both of those matches were great, but IMHO, the NWO match was better.
Guest Brian Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 NWO had a lot of problems that I'm not going to get into at two o'clock in the morning.
Guest Army Eye Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 Foley was the only reason the RR and NWO matches are regarded so highly. You could have put a stick against him and people would have cared.. Right. Tell us about some of Foley's other matches from that general time that are just as highly acclaimed.
Guest geniusMoment Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 While I do think HHH was a main eventer during 2000 I don't think its fair to compair other Foley matches during that time period. The HHH vs. Foley matches were Micks final feud, plus he changed into the kickass Cactus Jack character, I feel Foley was so damn good on the mic he could have built up any opponent and made the match seem special. That is until the match started, it takes two people to have a great match and HHH deserves credit as does Foley. But comparing these matches with Foleys previous few months is unfair because even foley admitted he was embarrassed with his recent performances, mostly comedy, and this feud was one final kick ass send off.
Guest godthedog Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 triple h's long-term selling MADE the rumble streetfight. it held the match together as a whole, and without it the streetfight would just be a bunch of cool spots thrown around chaotically & without any flow. foley did great also, i give hunter all the credit in the world for that match.
Guest EternallyLazy Posted January 4, 2003 Report Posted January 4, 2003 One more thing I forgot the mention, Triple-Juice did have the best match of 2001 with SCSA at No Way Out, IMHO. That match is EXTREMELY over rated
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