Guest Mole Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I watched this match again a few minutes ago, and I noticed something. There was just about NO psychology in the match. Yes, the match was awesome, but in my belief, for a match to be ****3/4 - *****, there must be some psychology. Maybe the psychology was Angle not letting go of the ankle lock, and keeping it on during the whole match was the psychology. Other than that, I really didn't see any. I'll watch it again tomorrow, to try to pick up on it. However, this match is ****1/4 - ****1/2, not more than that. Does anyone agree with me, or can they can argue another rating?
Guest EternallyLazy Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I kind of agree, but I count the ending as being great psychology, especially since Benoit sold it afterwards I love the match... but I think their Unforgiven classic is FAR superior
Guest Insane Bump Machine Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 Benoit did work Angle's leg in the beginning and immediately went for the Sharpshooter, a move that he doesn't always do. Good psychology there.
Guest creativename Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I loved the match, I'd say it was ****1/4 on my own scale...but that's just me. Most seem to have it higher, something which pleases immensely me actually. There was a lack of prolonged selling by both Angle and Benoit during the match, something which is surprising coming from Benoit, but I don't really think it took too much away from the match. And while psychology wasn't abundant in the match, there was some present. There was as much as you can hope for these days, even with Benoit and Eddie in the WWE.
Guest McLeary Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 You could say it had no psychology, but that all depends on what your definition of "psychology" is, y'know? There are lots of different kinds of ring psychology outside of bodypart working/selling, and I thought it was very strong, psychology-wise, alltogether.
Guest Brian Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I'd have to disagree. Benoit built the early part of the match on the sharpshooter, working in teases and attacking Angle's injured knee. I think not doing all the fun matwork was a sign that Angle and Benoit might have seen more at stake than competing over who is better in the mat.
Guest notJames Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I agree. They've proven countless times their equality on the mat, so they both had to step it up a notch and utilize more powerful manouvers to get the upper hand in the match. Angle's backwards powerbomb into the turnbuckle, Benoit's apron DDT, etc. I think that did wonders for the match, in that it was definitely predicated on their earlier matchups. Besides, the last few minutes or so of reversals and counters more than made up for whatever might have been lacking earlier.
Guest nikowwf Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 You are defining pyschology as working one body part over and over. Thats not the only kind of pyschology. They both kept going to submission moves to wear the other down, Angle finally finding one that worked, especially since Benoit was worn down by the previous ankle lock attempts. niko
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I believe the reason it went from the work of the knees to Benoit working on the shoulders and neck was because the first part of the match was flat and dead. After that World title bullshit of a match, the crowd wasn't really poping for much. So they changed it up to make it more Northern Crowd friendly. Thus some say the knee work was pointless, I bet it was to make it a better match by adjusting to your crowd. Thus I give it ****1/2. I would go higher, but I seen better matches(Savage, Steamboat, WM3) and rate accordingly.
Guest Tim Cooke Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 Like someone said above, psychology is more than body part work. I can name numerous things that WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE matches never have that this match had in terms of pysch. The thing that stood out the most is the Crossface v Ankle Lock. It can be argued that it is cliche (and may possibly be) but that is standard US psych. Next, the tease of the sharpshooter that Brian mentioned was spectacular psych. It was Misawa/Kawada/Tsuruta/Baba like psych that ended up popping the crowd and making sense. Third, the use of NO MATWORK which showed that this match wasn't about the better mat worker but was about who was the better wrestler. The DDT on the Apron as a big move proves this. Every match has psychology. This one happened to have superb psych that allowed the match to rise to greatness. When the rubes in the crowd are hanging on to their seats, you know the two guys in the ring are doing their job. Tim
Guest bob_barron Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I was elated when they didnt do any matwork-it had just been something that had been so played out that I was getting tired it since it always seemed like Benoit would fluster Angle on the mat which made no sense. They also got the crowd behind them after the double debacle of Torrie v. Dawn and HHH v. Steiner which is an extra achievement in itself.
Guest wildpegasus Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 In defence of this match, I'd like to say that I thought Benoit's working of the leg in the beginning portion of the bout was actually smart. With Angle coming of an injury, he'd be scared about this and probably expecting it. Benoit then crosses him up by concentrating on Angle's upper body for the rest of the match. This is where Benoit's bread and butter is anyway. One other point I'd like to make here is that Benoit also did start preparing for the crossface in the beginning by hitting the DDT on the apron which bloodied up Angle's nose. Anyway, another point I'd like to make was that this was a great match which played on some previous Benoit/Angle encounters. There was a triple threat Smackdown match after the Unforgiven match between Benoit, Rey, and Angle. In the Smackdown match there was a sequence where Angle tried to power,counter out of the crossface like he had done previously. However, this time Benoit was expecting this and rolled through with the crossface to the middle of the ring where he was then nailed with a Rey Mysterio legdrop. Bottom line was that Benoit had learned from their previous encounter. In the Royal Rumble bout, Benoit tried once again to roll through with the crossface. This time, Angle was expecting this. Once Benoit rolled through, Angle somehow managed to somewhatget on his feet and nail an Angle Slam. This time it was Angle who had learned from their previous encounters. Beautiful, beautiful storytelling. I also loved how Angle had to devolp new maneuvers, namely the powerbomb spot and the heel lock which he had never done previously. This was because Benoit wouldn't give up,knew Angle's arsenal and Angle had to devolp new tricks that Benoit hadn't seen before to secure the victory. I wouln't be surprised in a future bout if Benoit breaks open some new submission to put away Angle. Once again, great storytelling. An off topic question here, how do you make paragraphs in your posts? I'm new to this. Thanks.
Guest HartFan86 Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 I was in Boston for this match and I'll go the full monty on this match with ***** cause it was just fucking amazing watching live.
Guest Mole Posted January 22, 2003 Report Posted January 22, 2003 Yeah, I was talking about psychology in which the person works the a certain body part the whole match. I see what everyone is saying now, and I'll have to take a look at it later tonight. Don't get me wrong, it was a great match, just not a ***** match. I liked their WM encounter better than this. It's all matter of opinions anyway.
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