Vince, here is your sign

[Guest Ash Ketchum]

just got off watching MuchMusic. Of course, they have a show called Oven Fresh, and you get to vote which videos to keep and which go bye-bye.

 

The first one they played was "One of a Kind" by Breaking Point.

 

Yep, that's Rob's theme. And he's also in the video.

 

hopefully, maybe this small success will translate into big success for RVD.

 

And yeah... I'm dreaming. They won't bump him. It's like W... C... W...

[Guest wolverine]

Sorry, Chris Benoit is next in line for a big push.

[Guest Ash Ketchum]

I know.

[Guest]

Why would this mean he should get a push........He shot that months ago. How dod thy vote the videos off on tha show then?

[Guest]

Isn't it about time we all started TAPING a show if we want to see it, and not see it when the show is on? At least make Vince beg for our attention, he won't get it from me much longer. Fucking wcw it seems like now..

[Guest]

Sorry, Chris Benoit is next in line for a big push.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? He'll be in the same rutt Jericho is in right now, shortly after his return..

[Guest crandamaniac]

Sorry, Chris Benoit is next in line for a big push.

how does chris benoit skip over the HOSS's that are Test and Albert?

[Guest cabbageboy]

I won't start a debate over RVD/Benoit but I'd say RVD is more over than Benoit, and thus should get the push.  This is thing that is worse than WCW in my view.  WCW used to keep the same old guys on top and didn't push the newer talent...but at least the old guys (Hogan, Macho, Flair, Piper, etc.) WERE big draws at one time, so it made some sense.  And frankly, guys like Benoit, Malenko, Eddy were never that widely over with casual fans.

 

In the WWF/E now you have someone like Van Dam who is in fact seriously over, in his prime, and yet what happens?  They push fucking Bradshaw?  X Pac?  Big Show?  I just don't think the WWF can stand to push:  1.  A guy from a different federation.  2.  A guy who isn't very big.  3.  A guy who doesn't quite conform to what they think wrestling should be like (kick, punch, rinse, repeat, finisher).  

 

How fucked up is the WWF/E when office comments on RVD's flaws keep getting published?  Stuff about him having crappy punches (which is true), no mic skills (which isn't true), just does spots (at times true but at least his spots are cool and over with the crowd).  

 

Bear in mind the same people who are saying this are running Hogan and Undertaker as a MAIN EVENT tomorrow night!  Let me tell you, I saw a UT/Bradshaw match last night on a house show here in Louisville.  My brother was catatonic during the match and asking for it to end and my friend Ian was nearly asleep!  That's how bad it sucked.  Now, RVD has some flaws but at least the crowd wasn't about to fall asleep when he was wrestling last night!

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Benoit or RVD?

 

Why not both?

 

Fuck Edge.

 

When Benoit returns find a way for him to get to the Raw brand and let him and RVD feud for a few months..elavating both of them.

 

Benoit should get to the top first...finally win the WWE title and then RVD should emerge as his top contender as a result of the previous feud.

[Guest]

Screw RVD. I'm sorry but RVd hasn't put on an extremely entertaining match in the wwf yet. He is better than he was ecw but he still bores me with lame forearms and rolling thunders. So personally I say RVD shouldn't be pushed worth a shit. BUT it's not what the minority wants, its what the majoirty wanst and it don't take a brain surgeon to realize that RVD is Over. So he should be pushed. Maybe not World Title yet but give him a substantial oush, have him start flirting with the main eventers. RVD needs something to thrust him in the spotlight, like a steller match or fued. The Eddy G. feud aint cutting it. RVD need to start busting his ass a lil more though, you can tell he has just been going through the motions lately.

 

Benoit could be extremely over, but like RVd he needs that *something* to thrust him into the spotlight, to make fans care.

 

And Edge, well, Ilike Edge. I think he is doing pretty good lately, maybe not as serious as one would want but he still delivers. So to wrap up:

Fuck RVD

Benoit & Edge= Furture World champs

 

Man I'm gonna get so flamed...wait till people to realize I like HHH and The Hardy Boyz too...

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The Eddy feud could have and should have cut it...but the writers gave them nothing...absolutely nothing to do.

 

They had no real reason to wrestle in the first place...no point to the title reign...and since Eddy pretty much squashed RVD...no real point to this rematch.

 

I was skimming stuff on the Torch site and the guy pointed out that the the ratings were bombing with teens since Hogan returned...now this goes back to the Edge-RVD thing...An RVD push could help that very important demographic IMO.  Edge...not really as much.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

And Edge, well, I like Edge. I think he is doing pretty good lately, maybe not as serious as one would want but he still delivers. So to wrap up:

Fuck RVD

Benoit & Edge= Furture World champs

 

Man I'm gonna get so flamed...wait till people to realize I like HHH and The Hardy Boyz too...

Hell, I wouldn't flame you. In fact, I agree with you. BUT, I get tired of hearing about "RVD this" or "HHH that", those debates are fucking PLAYED, yet every other day, that's all I seem to see whenever I get on here. I may hate RVD, but I do respect other peoples' opinions, it's just that constantly bitching about Rob's being held down is fucking annoying. It was the exact same way with the Taker bashing a while back and the Angle/Benoit/Jericho getting buried whining, too.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

RVD gets good pops, but look where that got Hogan. Yes, I am a Hogan fan but I'm not stupid enough to realise that his current run is going badly. Had they kept him as Hollywood Hogan, maybe not as a total heel but as a tweener or something, he would probably be better off today, but that's another discussion for another time and place. But at the end of the day the situation is the same. RVD gets pops because the fans can play along with him. They can do the thumb point, say R-V-D, pop for the spots, etc. They don't really care all that much about his matches, and don't really care about him winning or losing. In short there is no real drama to his matches.

 

As a final point, I really find it perplexing how continuously, certain people are "tagged for greatness" and then when they don't get over/arn't pushed immediately people can't understand why. I think history has shown that the people who have gotten the most over the quickest have done so really out of nowhere. Austin is an exception, sure, but he had to completely reinvent himself to do it.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

RVD gets good pops, but look where that got Hogan. Yes, I am a Hogan fan but I'm not stupid enough to realise that his current run is going badly. Had they kept him as Hollywood Hogan, maybe not as a total heel but as a tweener or something, he would probably be better off today, but that's another discussion for another time and place. But at the end of the day the situation is the same. RVD gets pops because the fans can play along with him. They can do the thumb point, say R-V-D, pop for the spots, etc. They don't really care all that much about his matches, and don't really care about him winning or losing. In short there is no real drama to his matches.

 

As a final point, I really find it perplexing how continuously, certain people are "tagged for greatness" and then when they don't get over/arn't pushed immediately people can't understand why. I think history has shown that the people who have gotten the most over the quickest have done so really out of nowhere. Austin is an exception, sure, but he had to completely reinvent himself to do it.

I completely agree, HMW.

[Guest wolverine]

"When Benoit returns find a way for him to get to the Raw brand and let him and RVD feud for a few months..elavating both of them."

 

Fuck no.  May as well stick him in there with Shawn Stasiak for a 6 month feud.

 

Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle are so much better since Benoit's been gone, I can't wait for those matches....

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

yes...because doing the same thing over and over again is how you grow a business.

 

Is this Vince?

[Guest papacita]

I say they turn RVD heel. It was his egotistical heel character that got him over in ECW, and it should work well in today's skit-heavy WWE.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"yes...because doing the same thing over and over again is how you grow a business.

 

Is this Vince? "

 

Microsoft do the same thing over and over again-release new versions/upgrades to Windows and Office. But I guess Gates and Ballmer don't know how to grow a business either...

 

And given that McMahon is on the Forbes 400 and runs a publicly traded company that has turned a profit 4 years running, I'd say he is better qualified to determine how to grow his business than a random fan on a message board.

 

And as far as growing the business goes, I'd like to know how RVD is the person to do this. Specifically, what new fans is he going to attract to the WWE? Will the mainstream media (and that does not include Cannabis magazine) be interested in him? Will he get movie deals, get spots on talk shows, and guest roles on TV shows? The clamour for an RVD push reminds me of the same situation when Michaels was in the same relative position, and we all know how that turned out.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"yes...because doing the same thing over and over again is how you grow a business.

 

Is this Vince? "

 

Microsoft do the same thing over and over again-release new versions/upgrades to Windows and Office. But I guess Gates and Ballmer don't know how to grow a business either...

 

how is Hogan vs. Taker an upgrade?

 

And given that McMahon is on the Forbes 400 and runs a publicly traded company that has turned a profit 4 years running, I'd say he is better qualified to determine how to grow his business than a random fan on a message board.

 

Ratings are down...buyrates are down...attendance is down...what was your point again?

 

And as far as growing the business goes, I'd like to know how RVD is the person to do this. Specifically, what new fans is he going to attract to the WWE? Will the mainstream media (and that does not include Cannabis magazine) be interested in him? Will he get movie deals, get spots on talk shows, and guest roles on TV shows? The clamour for an RVD push reminds me of the same situation when Michaels was in the same relative position, and we all know how that turned out.

 

Seeing as how the teen rating left the building when Hogan returned (you can look it up)  what demographic would an RVD push help?  let me think....who is RVD over with?  hmm... who is the main target audience of advertisers? ...this is so tough...um...

[Guest Flyboy]

I say they turn RVD heel. It was his egotistical heel character that got him over in ECW, and it should work well in today's skit-heavy WWE.

I wouldn't work... at least I don't think so.

 

They tried that in ECW... it lasted awhile, but soon fans were in love with the guy.

 

Plus, isn't that what RVD does NOW?  He's not TOO egotistical, but he does have a big ego and he shows it off.  What do the fans do?  They love it.  In his match at Invasion, the Alliance were suppose to be HEELS.  Everyone got boo'ed, except for... RVD in his match against Jeff Hardy.  

 

That's a sign right there.

[Guest]

Vince will never Push Rob becuase hes not a Vince Mcmahon

creation. Although i think he should he probably wont. RVD should get a push before guys like Bradshaw and Big Show Yes RVD's Puch's Suck and he still is sort of a spotfest but atleast he is over with the fans and can put on entertaining matches. Toning done Rob's pops isnt a smart thing for Buissness.

 

Beniot Should also get a push and he probably will if he comes back and is over with the fans. But they should be hyping his return like they did for Triple H.

[Guest]

Truthfully, I hope they don't hype Benoit's return. I hope the Net doesn't get wind of his re-debut either. I wanna be surprised. I wanna mark out like a little bitch.

[Guest]

rvd blows, he can't wrestle.  And for months you guys were saying that they drown out his cherrs on tv, no that was a bullshit rumor, I have been to 2 raw's lately and they don;t drown out his cheers.  Seriously the only thing he has going for him is he does flips, did you ever notice 95% of his movies involve some kind of flip to go with them, WTF IS THAT?  RVD won;t get pushed because he is just like jeff hardy was 2 years ago, he will fizzel out as well because people will finally see that his shit is weak.

 

--Rob

[Guest cabbageboy]

Here is the main flaw in that line of reasoning:  Van Dam has been over for the past 5 years.  Most of that with a fanbase that is much more demanding than the WWF fanbase I might add (ECW).  They can job him out, doesn't matter.  He just has that air about him that says "Job me out all you want, motherfuckers.....I'm still gonna be over."  

 

And yes, a return to his ultra cocky stoner heel from ECW would rule.  As far as him not being able to wrestle, frankly that is idiotic.  But really, who in the WWE really can wrestle aside from a select few?

[Guest Brian]

But being over doesn't correlate directly to drawing power. If the WWF learns anything from Hogan's reign, it's that what the fans want when they're are in the arena doesn't always go to the same direction where their money is going.

 

ECW fanbase more demanding? More like fanboys. Givehem a little spots, a little mat stuff (but nothing yet in the lines of wrestling), and they'll eat it up like a creme brulee. If anything, they were pompous for the most part. They thought they were better because they cheered for wrestling sequences and they weren't just watching WWF or WCW.

 

As for Bps' point, Microsoft has branched out further into the stream of things. They not only offer Windows, but Windows with goodies that make it more than worth their time. They offer a diverse product. If the WWF wanted to do this, offer a diverse product, than they'd probably have tons of success. Strong storylines all around, athletic matches, strong characters, lots of different styles in every division. I think that's they're solution, and it may take a total re-tooling but they definately need to lay the groundwork for each and every division, build personas, develops personalities, work on mic skills, and let people wrestle in their own various styles. That way, the fans are offered a shmorgus board of stuff, from technical wrestling (Benoit), action (cruiserweight), heavyweight, strong characters (Austin), nostalgia (Hogan), and whatever else. That's branching out, and it's not some miracle push that's going to cure everything right now. It's a bunch of little things coming together. I went off on a whole different tangent.