New heel stable scenarios, benoit to raw...

[Guest Brian]

Since everyone is throwing out ideas for the new heel scenarios with the four horsemen, I'l like to start up this post for possible scenarios. Now it's obvious that Guerrero and Benoit are going to be included in this group as well as Arn and flair. Whereas a lot of people seem to point out that there are four guys there already, they would serve better as figureheads rather than actual members.

 

I think the best choice here is to actually go with a variation of the old radicalz. Now, Malenko's retired and not exactly the greatest of fits, but Saturn needs some direction and definately could benefit from being back with Eddie and Benoit, plus having Arn and Flair promoting him. Number four guy took me a little while, but the best choice maybe Raven. He's talked out against Austin. And the greatest thing is what brings these four together, The tyranny of the WWF, namely Austin. Raven's threatened to quit, at his last end. Saturn's gotten lost in the mix. Eddie has suffered, even losing his job. Benoit has put in tons of effort, only to be injured, forgotten, and ultimately not given anything. I think it's great because you can team Raven and Saturn pretty naturally if they ever wanted to put together a tag division on the RAW roster, plus they could treat this angle in the same way they did Flock/Benoit where Austin has to go through all these guys to get to Benoit, who they're protecting because of his injury (that way he's padded if they job him). And then when Austin gets to Benoit, whatever the outcome (preferably Flair cost him the match), Austin realizes he still owes Flair a match and he's the guy that Austin's always been after.

 

Now onto the trade. Benoit for Lesnar or NWO. Either one gives Benoit alot of momentum because Benoit is seen as key; even though both have been stunted. Lesnar needs to go on a mean streak after that; because his stock's dropped. That's also the logical choice with Heyman booking SmackDown.

 

They need to milk the Booker T turn for as much as it's worth. He's going to end up being over huge. I mean, just geenrally he's meant to be a face and almost nobody thought he could pull off the heel stuff (even though he did a really commendable job). Booker definately will be on the rise after this and it's just what he needs to become a threat.

 

Taker shouldn't drop the title at KOTR. Save that for RVD preferably.

 

The heel face division on both sides looks really unbalanced.

[Guest Ash Ketchum]

Brian, that sounds excellent.

[Guest Big Poppa Popick]

someone get this man a job at wwe stat

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I would rather have it just be a new stable working under Flair rather than the Horsemen. Sure, people who have a good enough knowledge of wrestling history will note Benoit, Arn, and Flair being Horsemen, but I think it's best to keep the Four Horsemen title away from it, as it would only serve to drive the stable further into the ground as it has lost nearly all meaning over the years. Simply looking at the nWo proves well enough why those stables should stay burried.

 

However, I would enjoy seeing Raven/Saturn or Benoit/Guererro hold the tag titles, so it has potential.

 

EDIT: I realize the tag titles are on smackdown, but maybe allowing them to be on both shows could be part of the trade, or something.

[Guest]

Brian...what in the HELL are you doing writing on this fuckin site? Send in a resume via HotJobs! STAT!

 

That rules it. Raven and Saturn are obviously perfect together, as are Benoit and Guerrero.

[Guest Sykotic2002]

Brillant Brian! Just Brillant!

[Guest]

What about my idea where Maven controls the world. Then when the TE2 winner gets in he says "SIEZE HIM" Then Rhyno and a new wrestler like.....Prototype comes out in armor and they jost him. And his queen can be Nidia. With Al Snow as the Jester. It all makes sence now.

[Guest]

Saturn's hurt.  Out for a few months.  They were going to team him with Hugh Morris, actually.  

 

How about since Flair's associated with NWO, making a heel stable INCLUDING Flair, Arn, Eddie, Benoit, Nash, Booker, Giant, X-Pac and Goldust?

 

Oh wait, that's WCW.

[Guest Brian]

Maybe Kanyon for Saturn. Or Regal, which actually would work out really well if down the line we get Regal vs. Benoit and Regal vs. Guerrero, and Regal vs. RVD wasn't bad too. I like the match pairings you get with that, especially if they're also feuding with RVD.

 

I'm especially happy since the new writing changes have happened since that means they can push the cruiserweight title as a singles title on SmackDown. Bring the US title back and the TV title, split the tag and world titles, and give the womens title to RAW.  That's the way you truly build stars, let them pick up feuds and create titles that are important for them to covet.

[Guest El Satanico]

I have no problem with Raven and Saturn joining them. But i don't think a group containing Saturn and Raven would look right being called 4 Horsemen. However i'm with the side that doesn't think they shoud use the 4 Horsemen name at all. Flair's stable doesn't need a name so no need to toss around the 4 Horsemen name.

 

Raven i agree would be a good choice, but i'm not too sure about Saturn. He's a good wrestler and a great tag team partner and i'm not doubting his ability. However the problem is that Saturn has been damaged by WWeee too much to just throw him into a major storyline. Fans see him as a comedy act and with his "unique" look it would take him awhile to rid himself of the "retard" gimmick stigmata. Until he can make fans see him as a serious guy he shouldn't be in any serious roles in major storylines.

 

I'd like to see Rhyno in Flair's group. He is taken serious and was semi over when he got hurt and he'd fit in well. Only problem is that i think he's still out for another 6 months or so.

[Guest]

After some careful thought on the four horsemen idea, I decided that it's probably best left alone. There's alot of prestige in the Horsemen name (even though the last incarnation tarnished the image a little thanks to Bischoff and friends) and I just don't trust the writing team enough yet to actually expect them to do something worthwhile. Besides, whenever I think of the *true* horsemen, I think of charismatic, limosuine riding, jet flying, gucci suit wearing, kiss stealing... well you know the rest. When I look at the potential list of candidates for the theorized version... I look at Benoit and Guerrero, and I'm sorry, but I don't think they fit the bill of what a true Horsemen stable should be (Raven? Saturn? I HATE Saturn, but I like Raven... but sorry, I just can't stomache the idea of one of them or both of them being in the 4 horsemen). I think the writing team should probably just leave Eddie and Benoit together, maybe adding a few members and just let them be a group of wrestlers watching each others backs... not an organized stable

[Guest Brian]

Well, I didn't actually say they were going to use the horsemen name but just threw that in since all the kool kids are using it (copyright Dean Rasmussen).

 

Anyways, I think it's just Flair creating a stable to work against Austin. Raven's a really good fit. Fourth guy, if they need one is a little harder. I think as a tag team, you pair Raven and Saturn and it does really well. Kanyon is cool with me.

[Guest]

I was just using the horsemen example because it's being thrown around by alot of people right now (including myself after RAW.)

 

But if they are thinking about creating a main event heel stable, throwing in Saturn and Raven and even Kanyon (although I like Raven and Kanyon) would be a HUGE mistake. Mainly because they would have to work extremely hard to get these three over, which they are not. Raven might be the most over, but even he isn't really a proven draw right now. Saturn... come on, aside from a few, most people don't care about him, and we still haven't seen if the casual fan even REMEMBERS Kanyon. If the WWE is going to create a serious main event level heel stable, they need to stick with guys that have already been pushed pretty heavily.

 

I think Raven has serious potential, as well as Kanyon. But the creative team needs to work on them seperatly as singles to truly get them over with the crowd and to test how well they can do in the future. Throwing them into a heel stable in the coming weeks is not the answer

 

but thats just my opinion

[Guest Brian]

But that's the point of throwing guys like that in there. Flair's a proven draw. Benoit's a draw. Guerrero can be a draw and has a ton of upside, maybe even more than Benoit. Than you take a guy like Raven who's a great talker, a decent wrestler in the least, give him a chance to speak and let him ride the heat train while he's developing with the crowd. You could do the same with an even lesser guy, like Kanyon or Saturn. The only problem though is what happens with smaller characters in the group is they get pushed aside, but with the split they can focus more on those guys.

[Guest]

I see your point and agree to a certain extent. I'm just extremely skeptical of everything right now... and who could blame me? I use my line of reasoning when I look at the nWo b-team. They had some really good talent there, but no one was allowed to truly become stars on their own and the WCW just threw them into the stable to get them over, and it didn't work... they were seen as unequal. Right now, I don't think the casual fans really care about Raven and Saturn. I think they should be pushed to a point where they can get over THEN possibly throw them into a stable, so that it will not only shock but actually make the fans care. I'm just speaking for the casual fans here. I'm sure alot of smarks would like to see this happen, but most of the "marks" would most likely fart on it. But who knows.

 

All I know is, that right now they have something really good... and if they fuck this up, I think I'll be ready to give up on the WWE and stop watching all together... at least until they make some shakeups and wake up

[Guest Brian]

That woudl be a big shake-up...the other thing I see developing is the Booker T/Golddust/NWO storyline which should shove Booker into a pretty prominent baby face position...unless they go the Rock route ala Survivor Series 1998 and turn him, joining him. But that won't work for him. I still think Raven needs more time, and let that psychological personality develop before they push him into the group. I really think they need to have Guerrero go over at KOTR against Austin and Benoit win the tournament to build up Benoit/Austin later on. That's shaking it up. Maybe even have Raven interfere in the KOTR match after three weeks of talking about Austin.

[Guest]

Yeah, I think the best way of going about this is to have Eddie win (assuming he's going to be facing Austin of course which we don't know for certain) at KOR with help from Benoit which could lead up to a Benoit match at the next ppv. Now that I think about this... if they choose to go with Eddie vs. Austin at KOR, maybe they rushed the Benoit heel turn... I think it probably would've played out better if Benoit remained a face UNTIL KOR where he would come out supposedly to help Austin and then turn on him, giving a speech the next night about how Austin was responsible for his neck injury or whatever, which would set up their match at the next ppv. But oh well

[Guest Brian]

No, I think Eddie just needs a fluke looking win, not strong but something solid to put him in the main event position.

[Guest Brian]

More thoughts:

 

I just re-watched the ladder match from Monday and was totally digging it the second time around. I still found the same faults though: RVD's selling, the blown ladder spot, the fan run-in. The first half of the match prior to the commercial, wasnt as bad as I remembered it. This was definately ***1/2. Shit, they should have given their J-Day match this much time and it could have been ****. The knee selling was the thing that killed this for me. RVD hardly sold the knee during that match despite the fact that King put over it and Eddie seemed to use it sporadically as an "out". The fan run-in I could care less about because Eddie got a shot in on him, but they re-did the spot. Eddie was like the glue in this match, RVD brough most of the big moves but this thing was Eddie's baby. Maybe I'll rate it higher, because it was damn good. They had that hesitant psychology going on with Eddie having opportunities early on to bring the ladder in, but choosing to keep it at his own pace, and RVD not grabbing the belt to get some payback at Eddie for those to losses. Keith is right, they need to milk this RVD/Austin vs. Benoit/Eddie thing. They've got Flair, Booker T, Golddust, and the NWO as extras to throw in. RVD has to face Benoit at some point during the KOTR tournament. But I don't know who should win. On one hand, I think it's a way to push Benoit as coming back ready to fight, because he wins the tournament in his first night back (if they decide to do it all in one night). On the other hand, RVD could take the title and justify a challenge to Taker because it looks pretty sure that he's going to get at least two months for a reign, being his last, and is probably going to do his big job when he drops the belt.

 

Whether RVD is ready or not is the question of course. His mike work is passable. I'm surprised people complain about him and Benoit because Benoit did a better than decent job on RAW as a face and RVD in short doses being carried by stronger heels on the mike (Eddie, Undertaker, Angle, Jericho, Flair) works towards strong segments. His ring work is hit and miss. His strikes are barely passable. His spots, though good, are not versatile. That means he'll have to rely on some bumping, which is good because he can do that. Of course that means he'll also have to rely on selling, and that's been unreliable. I've seen RVD sell pretty well when there's constant knee work or right after he's taken a move. But the subtle stuff really seems to kill him. And the consistancy. But he can work on it like anyone can.

 

HHH and the King of the ring slot. Well, I think Triple H is going to go down for Undertaker. I think he knows better than that to take the reigns again, and it looks like they're going to swing back to Jericho/HHH again because of Test and Storm. HHH has too much of what seems like unfinished business. Plus I think they need more faces than heels at the moment, so keeping the title on a heel isn't a bad idea. I alos think that Trips is looking for a big situation to capitalize on since him winning at WrestleMania didn't go over so well. Unless he's coming back at a later date after Undertaker's had time to do more bullying and beat up some faces. He may even let them build up a strong heel champ to stomp over.

 

One thing all HHHaters should be happy about: HHH can't get his hands on RAw anymore.

 

Why is Hogan on SmackDown? I may have missed it, but shouldn't he be on RAW?