So, who should be in the flock?

[Guest]

If the flock comes back, who should be in it?

 

My flock would be: Raven, Richards, Dreamer. They would eventually get more members, but that's what I would make them right now.

 

I'd also make them like the nWo was in 96. Beating down heels and faces.

 

Of course, WWE will most likely make them all jobbers anyways.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

S A T U R N~!

Of course, my main concern is that saturn gets a tag partner ASAP and i think Saturn and Kanyon with raven in slightly more of a manager type role would be mine.

[Guest razazteca]

The Flock as would consist of ECW stars, the usual suspects of Raven, Dreamer, Stevie, Saturn, Credible and Jazz.  Raven would recruit the members by doing the "I feel your pain....quote the Raven never more" gimmick, which is the only one that got him over anywhere.

 

It would be nice to see the return of stables in the WWF for the sole purpose of putting on a great payoff on a PPV, such as Survivor Series or War Games.  All of the buildup of the stables would climax in the Survivor Series and War Games PPV then fade away, so it would not end up like the gang wars of Russo era.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

I'd say Raven, Dreamer, Credible and Stasiak in the beginning.

 

Dreamer could go because Raven will be the only one who "accepts" him as an equal, and not a sideshow act.

 

Stasiak could have the old Richards "Stevie Richards" clueless  putz role.

 

Credible could be a young punk-dick heel.

 

I agree they may need a female presence, but I don't know about Jazz in the flock.  I think that once she comes back, if they create some kind of interesting angle with her and Steven Richards, that it could go somewhere.

[Guest Insanityman]

I'd say Dreamer, Saturn, and Credible. Richards maybe. I hope they do beat down both heels and faces and pull the "I feel your pain..." thing going. It worked very nicely for Raven.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

2 things about Saturn:

 

1)He's hurt, and will be out for a few more months.

 

2)He's on Smackdown.  Originally, the plan was for he and Hugh Morrus to be an Eliminators style tag team on that show.

[Guest dpac]

got to have kidman

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

If the flock comes back, who should be in it?

 

My flock would be: Raven, Richards, Dreamer. They would eventually get more members, but that's what I would make them right now.

 

I'd also make them like the nWo was in 96. Beating down heels and faces.

 

Of course, WWE will most likely make them all jobbers anyways.

*Make* them jobbers?  Those guys already *are* jobbers.  You're dreaming if you think they'll let that group be a major force.

 

--Dreamer - broken down

--Richards - a joke character (and I like Steve)

--Raven - not a main-eventer

 

Other mentions:

--Credible - jobber

--Stasiak - a joke character

--Saturn - OK, but not higher than mid-card

 

It could work as a mid-card stable, but you'd need to do a lot of work to make the crowd take these guys seriously.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

got to have kidman

He's on the Smackdown roster.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Raven

Saturn

Kidman

Scotty Riggs

Kane

 

Raven- Manipulative leader.

Saturn- Second hand man.

Kidman- The cruiserweight

Scotty Riggs- The sheep

Kane- The "Big Man," whom Raven could easily manipulate with the "I feel your pain" line.

 

I really like the idea of the Eliminators 2k2 with Saturn & Hugh Morrus though, so maybe replace Saturn with Kanyon.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

Kidman's on Smackdown too.  Can't do it.

The Flock is a RAW stable.

[Guest]

Why even bother? They'll be treated like jobbers by the Writing team or the Main Eventers anyway. They'll be a joke in the Casual fans eyes. Ala RTC.

[Guest]

No one. Stables are lame. Rehashing dead stables is even lamer. Rehasing dead stables that have been rehashed a million times over, is even LAMER.

 

Raven doesn't need a group of lackey's to get over, and vice-versa.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

What about Kanyon? And what about the Brain Lee/Horace type?

[Guest evenflowDDT]

No one. Stables are lame. Rehashing dead stables is even lamer. Rehasing dead stables that have been rehashed a million times over, is even LAMER.

 

Raven doesn't need a group of lackey's to get over, and vice-versa.

I somewhat agree.  Stables aren't lame, but rehashing a stable is usually not done right (easiest example: nWo), as it loses the sense of "magic" that made the stable and its members originally so interesting.

 

However, if booked correctly, I have to believe (in my biased, Raven-loving heart) that The Flock 2K2 could work (hell, Jericho as Conspiracy Victim 2K2 is doing great... oh wait, that's not an angle!).  Part of what makes stable rehashes so boring though is that usually the original members just can't hold up to their original image, and it ends up being a fruitless quick nostalgia fix that's almost sad to see how far some have deteriorated (easiest example AGAIN: nWo).  I'd have to believe that Perry Saturn and Tommy Dreamer would fall into this category.  Also, Dreamer wants to go in another direction, given his suggestions (that have been taken) for his geek gimmick.

 

A Raven-led stable, perhaps not named The Flock though (to avoid corrupting old memories) should have all or mostly new (to the stable/association with Raven) guys.  If The Brock doesn't go to Smackdown to be with Heyman, have him come in as the muscles, although I can't see him as having any "pain".  Kane definitely fits with the "manipulation of mental anguish" theme, and much as I dislike them, I think the Hardyz could turn heel and work in that role as well (similar to their role with The Brood, which I have heard spoken by name but know nothing about... did that work well?).  It could explain why Jeff does those occasional "suicidal" spots, at least.  Even though it goes against what I said about all new guys and no rehashing, "Wacko" Stevie Richards would be a nice lackey to round out the stable, since whatever they were doing with him and Jazz has to be put temporarily on hold anyway.  Maybe upon her return Jazz could join the stable as well, though I'm honestly not sure what she would do.

 

Also, Raven indeed doesn't need a group to get over, but nobody seems to want to book him right without one.

[Guest razazteca]

without stables then certain PPVs like Survivor Series would just be boring thrown together shows with no meaning.

 

Raven is finally getting over as an announcer and is returning to the heel character which has been successful for him in the past.  Why not continue this by giving the rub to the other mid/low card ECW wrestlers, he has worked with in the glory days.  Well if Saturn will be out with injuries for awhile then why not let Kanyon or Awesome join the stable.

[Guest]

*Make* them jobbers?  Those guys already *are* jobbers.  You're dreaming if you think they'll let that group be a major force.

 

--Dreamer - broken down

--Richards - a joke character (and I like Steve)

--Raven - not a main-eventer

 

Other mentions:

--Credible - jobber

--Stasiak - a joke character

--Saturn - OK, but not higher than mid-card

 

It could work as a mid-card stable, but you'd need to do a lot of work to make the crowd take these guys seriously.

 

Of course they wouldn't be main eventers. Raven is the only one I could picture in IC belt range.

[Guest]

The Hardyz have gotta start hangin' with Raven. Even if they don't turn heel, they could use a new look and new angle now that Lita is gone for awhile.

[Guest]

my ideal flock:

 

Raven

Tommy Dreamer as mutually respected by Raven

Steve Richards as the lackey

Chris Kanyon the guy that gets the job done

Steve Blackman as a disfigured quiet guy

Lodi as himself

 

Also, I'd have a rookie guy that acts as another silent lackey, but is repressed by Raven and Dreamer, and has potential to be a breakout star. I had a guy like this named Johnny Benedict in my previous fantasy booking.

 

As for other nuances, I'd use the same "air raid" siren for the Flock, and have them enter the ring from the audience, either from the front row or from random places, depending on the mind-games. Raven should use the Come As You Are ripoff. I hate Caw Caw Caw.

 

Raven's gotta go back to the old look. Dye the hair back to normal, grow a beard, and stop looking like a sexual deviant.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Kanyon is too talented to get mixed into a re-formed Flock, especially if surrounded by Richards, Dreamer, Stasiak, etc.

[Guest]

First Off: Don't call it The Flock. call ti something like The Dead Pool or whatever.

2nd: Make it be Raven, The Hardys and Scott Vick(Sick Boy). No dreamer, no richards. Why would Hardys and Sick boy work?

 

The Hardys- Stale now but back in the day thet actually seemd dark and extreme. Get rid of the black light shirts, the dyed hair, all that. Darker colors, ala the brood hardys.

Sick Boy- Has history with Raven, and Sick Boy is just a kickass name anyways. Plus he is already under dev. deal with WWE.

[Guest]

I guess you're right about Kanyon.

 

Well by no means would I suggest Stasiak. He's in his own universe.

 

Ha hah.

 

Perhaps Scott Vick can come back as Sick Boy if he's still under the developmental deal. But not Ron Reese or Horace Hogan or Van Hammer or any of those stiffs. They were useless and crappy. But in the case of The Flock, it could be a good way to bring in some rookies from the farm leagues to build up, kinda like my Johnny Benedict example.

 

Raven's Flock would be a good addition, IMO.

[Guest]

without stables then certain PPVs like Survivor Series would just be boring thrown together shows with no meaning.

Yeah, and WHEN was the last time that the "Survivor" matches (I'm NOT talking about the Alliance vs WWF one, either) were a *significant* part of that PPV?

 

I rest my case.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

He wouldn't go back to the old look. He wants to update his look once in a while with the Korn-guy skirt/kilt and the cassok jacket

[Guest Risk]

I'd say Raven should inspire some jobbers who the WWE isn't pushing.  Guys like...

 

Justin Credible

Spike

Stevie Richards

Crash

Tommy Dreamer

and maybe Shawn Stasiak

 

Maybe rename Justin Credible "Pike", a Bowrey-like name.  Have Spike drop the Dudley last name.  Rename Richards "Dude Love" and let him wear his same gear.  Have Crash drop the Holly name and be a partner of Dude.  Have Dreamer wear his old ECW fatigues, without an ECW logo shirt though.

[Guest]

Here's my idea from way back when. Some of this stuff now doesn't apply.

 

Raven's Flock should consist of:

 

Tajiri-His recent heel turn was OK, but to further cement it, he needs to become the dastardly ECW Yoshihiro Tajiri, spitting the green mist in everyone's face, not giving a damn about who he kicks, and turning his back on the fans by joining Raven, who tells him Torrie was nothing and that he belongs in the flock.

 

Stevie: ECW "Dancin'" Stevie Richards would be great. The HUGE coward that hangs out with Raven because he thinks it will make him cool.

 

Kane: Now it doesn't work thanks to Hogan & The Rock's comedy bits with Kane, but before, when Kane was the depressed heel that was only trying to get attention, it would work. Since Raven's the master manipulator and since Kane has the mind of a child, it would be great: Raven is USING and playing mindgames with Kane.

 

Bubba-Ray Dudley: The stutter returns after Raven reminds Bubba of his role in the Nest in ECW. Bubba is talking to Trish, slightly stutters...why, is this major heel Bubba? They go out to ring, yackity smackity, Bubba powerbombs Trish and joins Raven.

 

Saturn & Kanyon: Both guys were Raven's best friends and such, so they obviously need to be in this.

 

 

I dunno, I think my ideas are good...whatever you guys think is your opinion

 

 

What?

[Guest Risk]

First off, you can't make the flock heel or faces.  The group is beyond that, calling them heels would cheapen the angle.

[Guest]

Is it too much to ask that the WWE invent something ORIGINAL and NEW? I mean COME ON they were doing it practically every frikken month back in 96-98, what the hell has changed? If anything, their writing team has acquired greater minds ( Paul Heyman for instance ) and have a lot more wrestlers to work with.

 

Screw the Flock, Screw the nWo, how about the writing team does ITS JOB and write something NEW-AGE that will attract fans.

 

Fuck you Vince

 

This has been the Taker Mark

[Guest saturnmark4life]

OK so realistically the best we can hope for is raven brainwashing the hardyz. Maybe put richards in as well, but that would be enough. That would be pretty cool tho. Saturn and Kanyon should be a smackdown team, they have a similar style to one another.

[Guest bravesfan]

Although I don't agree with the idea of a stable, I'll offer an ideal group:

 

Raven - mouthpiece

 

Hardyz - Wouldn't a heel turn help their careers out by LEAPS and BOUNDS?!? <no pun intended>

 

Steven Richards- Playing the lackey, but give this guy a push!

 

Kane- The monster needed for the angle, to back-up the "cowards" in the group, adds stability.

 

A choice stable should end with 4-5 people and no more than that. Any more Raw brand wrestlers added (Dreamer, Credible, Dudley, Stasiak) are just USELESS GROUP OVERKILL, while Kidman, Tajiri and Lesnar certainly do not need to be waded down by a stable where interference in matches would run rampant.

 

Once we establish this group as a "threat", eliminate Richards and add __....work from there.