TUF 3: The Thread

[Guest Brian]

Shamrock is the greatest coaching choice ever. British guys rule. A Canadian worth more then a candian dollar also rules. I'm pumped about this season.

 

And what the fuck is up with the complete lack of Ed Herman love by the coaches? Short Fuse motherfuckers.

[Lei Tong 0]

Obviously a drunk Kazuo Misaki was brought in to help both guys pick MW's.

 

Also, Herman is doing a great Leben impersonation thus far.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Obviously a drunk Kazuo Misaki was brought in to help both guys pick MW's.

 

Also, Herman is doing a great Leben impersonation thus far.

 

They should have had another red headed crybaby from Team Quest on TUF2 just to make it a recurring thing.

[Damaramu 0]

As soon as I saw Ed I immediately thought of Leben and then a burning desire to see his ass get knocked out just like I want to Leben's ass knocked out began to grow in me.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Hey guys...Dave Dymond here. I used to write the MMA column for TSM a while back, I don't know if you remember me or not.

 

Anyhow, I am a Ken Shamrock fan, (and someday soon I plan to write an article explaining why...so don't flame me yet please) but I was disappointed by his attitude during this episode. His continued refusal to appreciate and accept Jiu Jitsu as a fighting style is kind of sad. I know he comes from the Sammy Saranaka school of Shootwrestling...and unlike a lot of MMA fans I still think that this is a viable fighting style...but surely as a coach he needs to accept that most young guys know Jiu Jitsu and need to train in it, in order to be successful.

 

Simply saying "I do leg locks" is not going to help your team. I know he doesn't like Jiu Jitsu, I know he doesn't USE Jiu Jitsu, but it wouldn't have killed him to bring in a Jiu Jitsu coach to help his team. He surely knows some guys who could help in that area. Yes, he could point out that Saku managed to beat most of the Gracies using Shootwrestling, but still...Shootwrestlers need to know the style at least to defend against it, if they aren't going to use it themselves.

 

As far as his training goes, I am of two minds. Shamrock keeps himself in very good physical condition...if I look like him when I'm 40 I'll be pretty damn happy...and we can at least be assured that he isn't using roids at this point, because he has needed to pass a few pee tests over the last few years. I am going to give his strength and conditioning guy a chance before I condemn him. Shammy's does know a fair bit about diet and nutrition, so I'm not going to base my opinion off a two minute clip.

 

Ken's coaching methods are... interesting. He even admitted he only knows leglocks and brawling. No wonder he loses all the time. He'll probably teach them how to throw girly Pancrase slaps next week.

 

Here I need to take serious issue with you. Having done some rudimentary training in Jiu Jitsu and Shootwrestling both, I can tell you that an open handed palm strike to the head (IF properly thrown) can do just as much damage as a punch, if not more...and cause less damage to the hand. Just check out any interview with Bas Rutten where he talks about his days in Pancrase. Some of the fights there were worked (especially the ones featuring two native fighters) but still in all...palm strikes are no joke. I'm not saying they'd work in UFC...because of the gloves they wouldn't...but Shootwrestling is still a style that can be effective if used properly.

[Lei Tong 0]

As far as his training goes, I am of two minds. Shamrock keeps himself in very good physical condition...if I look like him when I'm 40 I'll be pretty damn happy...and we can at least be assured that he isn't using roids at this point, because he has needed to pass a few pee tests over the last few years.

 

While it's likely Ken is off the sauce, it's not as though there's no way to pass a urine test while cycling.

 

I am going to give his strength and conditioning guy a chance before I condemn him. Shammy's does know a fair bit about diet and nutrition, so I'm not going to base my opinion off a two minute clip.

 

Strength? Ok. Conditioning? Like Herman alluded to, they're MMA fighters, not body builders, and neither Ken nor any of his fighters outside of Vernon White and Jerry Bohlander have ever shown above average cardio.

 

Ken has never come off as a great coach outside of the early days on the Lion's Den, when in reality their advantage was simply being in better shape and having more basic submission knowledge than the most of the mediocre North American MMA field of the time.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

The subtitle of the thread should alternate weekly between "Herman motherfuckers", "Bisping, bitches" and "Hammil, ya heard?".

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I enjoyed the first episode. Not a great one, but it still did a good job of establishing the personalities of Ken and Tito and their rivalry, which is clearly the intended focus of the show right now. Not many of the fighters stood out personality-wise, which is a shame because it’s a personality driven business, but the ones who stood out were Redheaded Mouthy Guy, the two Brits and the deaf fighter. I’m hoping the deaf guy wins so we can get another feel good ending. The one guy I will state right now has almost no chance of getting far is, I think, Kristian Rotharmel; the older one who Tito chided for gassing out easily. In addition to his questionable stamina, he doesn’t seem to really want it, and I get the feeling that he’s just looking at this as a way to make money or something and he doesn’t project any real desire to win. The fight was ok and I have no problem with Stine losing as he’s another person that didn’t seem to have his heart really in it.

 

Who was the one who didn't see the merit in Ken's exercise involving lifting the bags? He's one I don't see cutting it.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Who was the one who didn't see the merit in Ken's exercise involving lifting the bags? He's one I don't see cutting it.

 

...Mike Bisping. He won the strength and conditioning tests. I don't think he'll have a problem with any of the fighters there except for Hamill, and not because Hamill is a great fighter or anything. England doesn't have many wrestlers and that's the only weakness in Bisping's game. Anyway, they're both on the same team so unless they have to fight each other before the finals, expect Bisping to be there.

 

edit: Ok, you might say that Mike Whitehead also displayed a lot of cardio in training even though he turned out to be a pile of shit, but I never believed in Whitehead. I've seen Bisping fight and the other 7 LHWs aren't even close to his level. This is definitely the most misbalanced level of talent in any weight division of any TUF season.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

For those Ontarians who read The Toronto Star there was an article in the Arts section today about Kalib.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Who was the one who didn't see the merit in Ken's exercise involving lifting the bags? He's one I don't see cutting it.

 

...Mike Bisping. He won the strength and conditioning tests. I don't think he'll have a problem with any of the fighters there except for Hamill, and not because Hamill is a great fighter or anything. England doesn't have many wrestlers and that's the only weakness in Bisping's game. Anyway, they're both on the same team so unless they have to fight each other before the finals, expect Bisping to be there.

 

edit: Ok, you might say that Mike Whitehead also displayed a lot of cardio in training even though he turned out to be a pile of shit, but I never believed in Whitehead. I've seen Bisping fight and the other 7 LHWs aren't even close to his level. This is definitely the most misbalanced level of talent in any weight division of any TUF season.

 

I wouldn't have expected an unranked 155'er to have beaten a top twenty Middleweight either, but that's exactly what happened when Florian beat Leben. Some of the other guys aren't as untalented as we think.

[Rendclaw 0]

Personally, they're playing up the Tito-Shamrock feud a little TOO much. What kind of crap is that Tito and Ken not wanting to be in the same building to analyze the fighters?? I was afraid from the start that it was going to be more about Ken's and Tito's dislike for each other than it was going to be about who the best fighter is in each weight class, and after that first episode, it seems that its going to go that way.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Who was the one who didn't see the merit in Ken's exercise involving lifting the bags? He's one I don't see cutting it.

 

...Mike Bisping. He won the strength and conditioning tests. I don't think he'll have a problem with any of the fighters there except for Hamill, and not because Hamill is a great fighter or anything. England doesn't have many wrestlers and that's the only weakness in Bisping's game. Anyway, they're both on the same team so unless they have to fight each other before the finals, expect Bisping to be there.

 

edit: Ok, you might say that Mike Whitehead also displayed a lot of cardio in training even though he turned out to be a pile of shit, but I never believed in Whitehead. I've seen Bisping fight and the other 7 LHWs aren't even close to his level. This is definitely the most misbalanced level of talent in any weight division of any TUF season.

 

I wouldn't have expected an unranked 155'er to have beaten a top twenty Middleweight either, but that's exactly what happened when Florian beat Leben. Some of the other guys aren't as untalented as we think.

 

Well I never had much hope in Leben to begin with so that wasn't a shock to me, even with the weight difference and the different levels of mma experience between the two. That was also after Leben had already lost to Koscheck so I certainly wasn't expecting much from him.

 

I picked Griffin, Sanchez, and Stevenson to win their respective weight divisions and they did. I didn't pick any HW from TUF2 because none of them were impressive. Also, please don't think I'm bragging about these predictions because they were fairly obvious. The rest of the fighters were just a bunch of scrubs compared to them. Sure, upsets happen, but every season has had a certain standout fighter and nothing has prevented him from winning yet.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Not many of the fighters stood out personality-wise, which is a shame because it’s a personality driven business, but the ones who stood out were Redheaded Mouthy Guy, the two Brits and the deaf fighter. I’m hoping the deaf guy wins so we can get another feel good ending.

 

Let's be fair, 4 guys standing out in one episode is pretty damn good, when they also are getting over Tito and Ken and their rivalry. It would be TNA-like to try and get every one of the 16 guys over, which is to say, damn need impossible to do successfully. The objective wasn't to make everyone immediately recognizable and a star in the first show, which is a good thing. It was to get over the Tito/Ken rivalry, get over the two as individual and different coaches, to get over Dana, to get across the rules, to put on a fight and get over the two guys fighting, and to put the spotlight on a few guys. Go back to season one and Bonnar, Forrest, and Diego weren't exactly stars after the first episode.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Not many of the fighters stood out personality-wise, which is a shame because it’s a personality driven business, but the ones who stood out were Redheaded Mouthy Guy, the two Brits and the deaf fighter. I’m hoping the deaf guy wins so we can get another feel good ending.

 

Let's be fair, 4 guys standing out in one episode is pretty damn good, when they also are getting over Tito and Ken and their rivalry. It would be TNA-like to try and get every one of the 16 guys over, which is to say, damn need impossible to do successfully. The objective wasn't to make everyone immediately recognizable and a star in the first show, which is a good thing. It was to get over the Tito/Ken rivalry, get over the two as individual and different coaches, to get over Dana, to get across the rules, to put on a fight and get over the two guys fighting, and to put the spotlight on a few guys. Go back to season one and Bonnar, Forrest, and Diego weren't exactly stars after the first episode.

 

I think Diego became a star when he thought aliens were trying to get him in his drunken stupor.

[I like Forums 0]

Diego IS from New Mexico.

[Guest AndrewisyourHero]

Or when he attempted to steal elecricity from the sky..

[Lord of The Curry 0]

That episode aka the "Fatherless Bastard" incident is still one of the best episodes of any season of TUF so far. So much jam-packed into one episode including Koscheck's killer line to Quarry about Leben sleeping outside

 

*Drunk voice* "Nate..........that man out there needs you."

[Dangerous A 0]

Observer site is reporting the debut of TUF 3 did a 2.0 rating, making it the highest rated original series debut in the history of Spike. Ultimate Fight Night that preceded did a 1.6.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

2.0 without the Raw lead in. AWESOME.

 

It was a good episode too, let's hope they retain the audience and get to build on it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

* #1 among Men 18-34 (3.71, 971,000) in its timeslot out delivering

everything on broadcast, cable, or pay cable.

 

* #1 in HH rating (1.95), average audience (2.4 million), Men 25-34 (5.03,

758,000), Men 18-49 (2.70, 1,411,000), Persons 18-49 (1.67, 1,794,000)

(Ad-supported cable only)

 

* Highest household ratings for an original series premiere in Spike TV

history (1.95)

 

* Defeated TNT's NBA doubleheader featuring the league's marquee teams

including Pistons vs. Heat/Lakers vs. Nuggets in household rating (1.95

to 1.68), average audience (2.4 million to 1.8 million), and Men 18-34

(3.61 to 1.41).

 

* Defeated USA Network's coverage of golf's biggest tournament, The

Masters, in average audience (2.4 to 2.2 million), Men 18-34 (3.61 to

0.72), and Men 18-49 (2.70 to 1.01).

 

* Highest delivery of Men 18-34 in network history for an original series

 

* Versus last year in the timeslot (MXC), up +236% in households, +429% in

Men 18-49, +395% in Men 18-34, and +262% in average audience.

 

* Earlier in the evening, Spike TV simulcasted the first-ever LIVE network

sporting event (Ultimate Fight Night Live) to a mobile device via Amp'd

mobile.

[Dangerous A 0]

Methinks this UFC/Ultimate Fighter gig has legs to it

 

UFC and Spike is just a marriage made in heaven. I believe they are married for another 2 years.

 

Oh, and the Tito/Shamrock dynamic. Don't ever let them tell you hatred doesn't sell. While everyone LIKES it if two guys who are slated to fight respect each other, but everyone LOVES when two guys slated to fight can't stand each other.

 

That said, I'm looking more forward to Tito's fight with Griffin than with Shamrock.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Methinks this UFC/Ultimate Fighter gig has legs to it

 

UFC and Spike is just a marriage made in heaven. I believe they are married for another 2 years.

 

Oh, and the Tito/Shamrock dynamic. Don't ever let them tell you hatred doesn't sell. While everyone LIKES it if two guys who are slated to fight respect each other, but everyone LOVES when two guys slated to fight can't stand each other.

 

That said, I'm looking more forward to Tito's fight with Griffin than with Shamrock.

 

I agree, I think Tito Ortiz Vs. Ken Shamrock 2 will be the biggest draw for the UFC this year(Yes even bigger then Liddell/Corture 3 and Gracie/Hughes) because of this show. Hatred does sell.

 

And also, as a UFC newbie, I'm interest in why Dana White and Tito Ortiz had beef? What's the story to it?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Tito was the champ and held the title hostage asking for more money.

[Dangerous A 0]

Mostly had to do with contract/money. As bad as pro wrestlers get fucked over with the "independent contractor" stuff, MMA fighters, at least in the US, get fucked 30 times worse. Tito is kind of outspoken towards things like that.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Yeah, from what I've read, it seems like Dana White rips alot of fighters off for money.

[Dangerous A 0]

It's not so much he rips them off it's that he low balls the fuck out of them. For all the money the shows make, the fighters get dick for it.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

It's not so much he rips them off it's that he low balls the fuck out of them. For all the money the shows make, the fighters get dick for it.

 

Yeah, I read Loiseau only got 10 grand for fighting in the main event. That's fucking peanuts.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Yeah, I mean, the fact that Edwards made a good chunk more then Hominick while being the loser was twisted.

[Adam 0]

I loved the first episode. I didn't watch either of the two series', simply because it didn't air here and I didn't have a fast connection. Thank you BitTorrent.

 

Anyway, I went in hating Tito and liking Ken... but the show made it reeeeally hard for my feelings to stay that way. Ken seemed completely behind the times, and Tito got in and actually showed the guys practically rather than barking out orders like some second rate Drill Sargeant. No BJJ coach? You've got to be kidding.

 

The deaf guy is the feel good story, and I'll be rooting for him. Bisping looks like a badass, and from his record, he'll go far in the comp. If Herman is as good as you guys say, then I'm looking forward to seeing him unleash when he gets to fight.

 

Overall, this series should be a lot of fun, and the final will be awesome.