Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Watching Flair vs. Austin, a thought popped into my head. I remember reading Foley's book (Blood and Sweatsocks) and he briefly touched on Goldberg vs. Hogan, where Hogan dropped the title to Goldberg. He basically said that it was great to have a match like that to pop a rating, but in the end it was a mistake because they missed out on a big money making ppv main event. In my opinion, they rushed Flair vs. Austin, only to pop a rating when if built properly (after his matches with benoit and Eddie) it could've been a very anticipated match. Either way, it was a very solid match, and if the WWE gives these guys a good 25-35 minutes someday soon, I have NO doubt that they could pull out an instant MOTY.
Guest art_vandelay Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 IMO, tonight's match was a bit of a bore. A whole lot of chopping, not enough actual "wrestling" or psychology. Of course, if RVD/Eddy/Angle/Edge didn't wrestle last week, I may have felt differently about tonight. Flair's days of main eventing are over. His ability in the ring has tremendously deteriorated. His best use right now is his promos and for that spike in the ratings. I wouldn't want a whole month of build-up for Austin vs. Flair at a PPV. I certainly know marks won't.
Guest godthedog Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 i don't think either of the flair/austin efforts have been very good. it seems like one of those things where everything SHOULD click, but it doesn't (like benoit/austin/jericho). flair was sucking a lot of wind, & it appeared that neither guy really knew what to do for the majority of the match, so they did a lot of chopping & back body drops. maybe these guys could do a lot more if flair gets to prepare himself and they have more time. but the last couple weeks have kind of killed my desire to see them fight.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 There certainly is a clash of leadership when Austin and Flair get together, however I would say that the psychology was sound. No punching, both men try to sucker the other into doing it.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 IMO, tonight's match was a bit of a bore. A whole lot of chopping, not enough actual "wrestling" or psychology. Of course, if RVD/Eddy/Angle/Edge didn't wrestle last week, I may have felt differently about tonight. Flair's days of main eventing are over. His ability in the ring has tremendously deteriorated. His best use right now is his promos and for that spike in the ratings. I wouldn't want a whole month of build-up for Austin vs. Flair at a PPV. I certainly know marks won't. Well I dissagree there. Flair shows more talent and bumping ability than half of the roster. He may not be as good as he was 10 years ago, but come on, for a guy that's 54 years old, he's amazing. Do you see Flair taking a back body drop on the floor like Flair did tonight? Give the guy a little more credit.
Guest Mole Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Actually he's 53, but I won't hold it against you.
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 There's nothing wrong with giving away a match like Flair-Austin as long as you follow up on it. At some point fans will want to see Flair "get his" from Austin and so they will do a street fight or some other brawlish match. Tonight's match was a good way to put heat on the feud and the no punches stip made for some funny exchanges.
Guest art_vandelay Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Well I dissagree there. Flair shows more talent and bumping ability than half of the roster. He may not be as good as he was 10 years ago, but come on, for a guy that's 54 years old, he's amazing. Do you see Flair taking a back body drop on the floor like Flair did tonight? Give the guy a little more credit. Well, yes. For a 53 year old, he's amazing. But it's just hard to take that into account when you've seen the man do so much better. And also because the match was hot off the tails of 2 **** matches from last week, as mentioned earlier. however I would say that the psychology was sound. No punching, both men try to sucker the other into doing it. That I agree with, I enjoyed the stip. I was more referring to lack of offense to Austin's leg and the subsequent lack of selling of the leg throughout the match.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Well the leg psychology wasn't relevant to the match, the punching psychology was. Sure, it would have been great to see Austin hobbling around, but then again, he is fighting a 50+ year old. They did chop a lot didn't they? It's funny how they TEASED a wrestling match, but still went with the same format as they always go with, this time just replacing one with the other. *sigh*
Guest Risk Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Hm. The match was the best I've seen on RAW in a while, he may have had a lot of chops, but it had more holds than usual. I wish they would outlaw punches.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I liked the match. I think it's the only good match Flair has had since coming back (I didn't see Judgment Day).
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 If you count how many punches Austin usually throws in a match, they equal about as many chops as he threw in this one... the chops made up for the punches, and I'm sorry I would rather see chops that look, sound, and are painful rather than Austin's pretty weak punches (and yeah compared to Angles, Austin's punches don't look good at all)
Guest The Man in Blak Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Actually, I thought it would have been a phenomenal match, except that: 1) Austin didn't exactly sell the knee psychology too consistently 2) The ending sequence was all duct tape and baling wire I did appreciate the chopfest that happened, despite how repetitive it seemed at time (possibly from the conflicts in leadership, methinks.) It was a solid match that I think was perfect for a Raw main event, especially when Austin has bigger fish to fry at a PPV venue such as Guerrero and Benoit.
Guest Cataclysm911 Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Personally, I would rather see good matches on free t.v. which would entice me to order ppv's as opposes to weeks of bad matches, where I wouldn't want to see the ppv.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I agree with Cataclysm. Austin vs. Flair for free is fine when the focus is going to be shifted to Austin vs. Eddy and Benoit anyway.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 My only complaint is that it should've been given a "dream match" type feel to it and should've been announced ahead of time to truly hype it. In my opinion, Austin vs. Flair one on one, since it hasn't been done in 9 or so years, would've made a great pay per view main event. I'm sure it will be when it's all said in done but the novelty won't be there anymore.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Nah don't worry about pay-per-view..I had enough of chop-o-mania tonight, but I have been PRAYING for a match that featured no brawling, sicne that originalyl was and still is teh draw for wrestling, at least in the amateur sense, is that there's no punching and kicking, you defeat your opponent through twisting him into a pretzel and killing him.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I think it's the only good match Flair has had since coming back. I said the exact same thing to myself after the show ended.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 why does everyone think this was a good match? Because of who was in it? I'd have to say that match was pretty brutal, too long, and had a retarded ending. Unless you're favorite thing about wrestling is going Whoooooooo! when someone gets chopped. Yes, Flair bumped around like a crazy person, but it was a train wreck between every Flair match ever and ever Austin match ever, substituting chops for punches.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I agree with Smell The Ratings. The match wasn't really anything special. Austin even punched Flair, but JR called it a "Clothsline" to cover it up. This is coming from someone who's favorite match is Flair/Steamboat 2 out of 4 falls too, so I like good wrestling.
Guest Insanityman Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I agree it was a good free t.v. match, and for Flair being his age that was as good match. I expected the chop-o-mania taking place but maybe like the orginal post said this wasn't the best idea. (That backdrop was sold well too, Ric does have more talent than one fourth of the roster).
Guest cynicalprofit Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 It could have been a PPV main event, but alas they blew it here, though they can do it again. Why is Flair wrestling so much anyways, they should be saving him for ppvs anyways. Honestly I liked the match, but there is no way it was gonna meet my expectations as a awesome match. Flair is to old and austin is to broken. Both are still good, but no longer in their prime. Still recorded it to see Flair do the job to austin a decade after it was originaly planned in wcw. Anyone else notice how flair bumped on his side and not his back most of the time?
Guest godthedog Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I agree with Smell The Ratings. The match wasn't really anything special. Austin even punched Flair, but JR called it a "Clothsline" to cover it up. This is coming from someone who's favorite match is Flair/Steamboat 2 out of 4 falls too, so I like good wrestling. how does one win a 2 out of 4 falls match?
Guest papacita Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 I liked the psychology in that match...and coming from someone who doesn't usually pay attention to things like that, that's saying something. The only problems I had with the match were Eddie's run-in (while the ref was directly facing the Titan Tron) and Flair throwing a punch late in the match. And WWE should've waited on that match. As a matter of fact, I would say that this was worse than Goldberg and Hogan, because that match was announced a few weeks prior, so people knew it was coming and had time to tune in to see it. Last night's Austin/Flair match was impromptu, wasn't promoted, and unless you tuned into the show, you had no idea that it was coming. That was really a waste of a big match. On a completely un-related note, Ric Flair should NEVER wear his robes on Raw again. Save it for PPVs only. IF YA SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL...WHAT THE ASS....IS BUSTING! ::CATCHPHRASE OF THE YEAR::
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Note to WWE: Simply banning punches from a match does not make it a "wrestling" match. Flair and Austin should be ashamed for calling that anything BUT a slapfight, with a small package and a Lou Thesz Press thrown in occasionally.
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Flair and Steamboat chopped each other almost 90 times during the greatest wrestling match of all time at WrestleWar '89 and I haven't see ONE person complain about it. Sure, who could? But anyway, upon further viewing of the match, I'll list the actual wrestling moves involved Lockup into headlock into hammerlock Reverse hammerlock into drop toe hold Front face lock reversal of front face lock into hammerlock arm wringer drop toe hold half boston crap Back body drop Thesz Press clotheslines (YES guys that WAS a clothesline. Watch it closely. It's NOT a punch. Austin's arm clearly extends and comes across Flair's neck) stunner Backbody drop on the floor suplex Flair works on Austin's knee Figure 4 leglock small package backslide stunner end of match About 60 chops So you see, there were more moves in that match that most of you are admitting Of course it doesnt come as a shock to me that alot of you are complaining here on this particular board as opposed to elsewhere. I expected that.
Guest dreamer420 Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 i disagree. i have seen nothing but bitching on this board about the wwe programs for the past month. finally the wwe listens, starts giving the fans the main events that we want to see and not just a 3 minute raw match either and people are bitching. i'm glad we are going to start getting ppv quality matches for free. maybe you want the nWo vs. bradshaw in a 3 minute handicap match for the raw main event?
Guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 All I was saying was that it would have been a better business decision to have Flair/Austin as a ppv main event and not given away on free tv because let's face it... main events of RAW and Smackdowns have very rarely been considered by anyone I've ver met as being "that big of a deal." Ppv matches have always had more emphasis put on them, and Flair/Austin should've been treated in the same light as Rock/Hogan. A dream match. Either way, it was a very very good match and even Scott Keith surprised the hell out of me by giving it ***1/2 stars.
Guest Risk Posted June 4, 2002 Report Posted June 4, 2002 Now if only ever match consisted of the no punching rule.
Guest dreamer420 Posted June 5, 2002 Report Posted June 5, 2002 Scott Keith surprised the hell out of me by giving it ***1/2 stars. he must have removed that giant stick from his ass for the main event.
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