Guest Downhome Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Call me crazy, but this has me rather confused at the moment. Ric Flair is obviously now a face, forceably yes, but a face none the less. He also is apparently still with Arn, Eddy, and Benoit, soooooooooo... ...does this technically make them ALL faces now? It would seem basicly impossible to keep all of them heels now, much less MAJOR heels, with the apparent newfound push of the nWo, Brock Lesnar's major push, and Vince now back on the show. So, could it be that Ric and co. are now all faces? Or hell, are they just going to confuse me more? :-(
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 No I'm betting that Benoit and Eddie will turn on Flair next week for losing to Vince and that will lead to a run with both of them, with Flair in Austin's place Which could be a good thing. Flair can still work well and if you put him in the ring with someone as good as Eddie or Benoit, I think there's a good **** match possibility
Guest alfdogg Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I think Arn turning on Flair was the intended visual on RAW, but it went over the announcers' heads if it was. BTW, bigjig, sorry for flaming you earlier. It's just that Austin's my favorite and everyone was trashing him, so I got upset. I'm a pretty big hypocrite about this whole thing, I'll admit. So no hard feelings, man, OK?
Guest Risk Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 This is why I don't like heels and faces, they're too unrealistic. Can't they just play their characters without worrying if they're the "good" guy or "bad" guy?
Guest Tony149 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 They were teasing Arn turning on Ric during his match with McMahon. The announcers didn't pick up on it because they never do and if they did, it probably means he isn't turning. I agree with thebigjig, I think Benoit & Eddie will turn on Ric. Maybe setting up feuds with RVD (vs. Benoit) & Booker T (vs. Eddie).
Guest alfdogg Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 What I meant Tony was that even after he walked out on Ric, it STILL wasn't commented on.
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I think Arn turning on Flair was the intended visual on RAW, but it went over the announcers' heads if it was. That's the same thing I got from it. The announcers didn't call it, and it seemed to go over the fan's heads, if it was indeed a turn. Anderson didn't even stay at ringside, and he walked straight towards the back after backing down from Lesnar, with Heyman and Brock following after. An Anderson/Benoit/Guerrero alliance I could see, with Benoit and Guerrero turning on Flair next week possibly. Meanwhile, if Austin really does stay out, RVD takes his spot in the Benoit/Guerrero thing, while he and Flair face off against them and Vince; along with Heyman/Lesnar, should the WWF keep them involved, and it doesn't turn into a one-time deal explained by Heyman wanting to protect his job.
Guest Downhome Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 What I meant Tony was that even after he walked out on Ric, it STILL wasn't commented on. Am I the only guy out there that looked at that simply as Arn being scared sh*tless of Brock Lesnar thus making Brock look that much more intimidating?
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 BTW, bigjig, sorry for flaming you earlier. It's just that Austin's my favorite and everyone was trashing him, so I got upset. I'm a pretty big hypocrite about this whole thing, I'll admit. So no hard feelings, man, OK? No apologies necessary, it wasn't a big deal. With a situation like this, it's just a sure fire lock that there's going to differences in opinion. Actually, now that I've learned a little more about the situation I'm more confused than ever because I don't know who to support lol. But either way, I just can't see a positive thing about a WWE without Austin. If they had actually paid attention to the fans and created more stars of Austin's caliber then they of course wouldn't need to worry that much. But anyway, back to the subject, I can see an Arn/Benoit/Eddie vs. Flair angle, but yeah I was also thinking that Arn's walking away from Flair was simply because he didnt want to get the shit kicked out of him. Whatever way it goes, if they decide to give us Benoit vs. Flair, I'll be a happy man
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Pushing Flair as Raw's top face can't last too long, however. Maybe a run with him at the top would have a bit more credibility and last a little longer than it did with Hogan--seeing as how Flair can actually still work a match--but how long are the fans going to accept a man in his fifities as one of the company's top babyfaces? As much as the WWE is reluctant to do it, pushing new people at the top is becoming more necessary.
Guest Tony149 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I think Flair can do ok as the top (short-term) face for Raw. One thing he has over Hogan and a lot of the other WWE wrestlers, he*s still able to cut a good/great promo without making himself look like he*s stuck in the *80s. The "Attitude" era taught us something, you don*t have to be the greatest wrestler (Flair is still good and with the right guy he can have **** matches, IMO), as long as you can cut a good promo.
Guest Zack Malibu Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I can't see Guerrero as a babyface anytime soon. Benoit could be a great badass babyface, but it might kill his heat to turn him this quick. And I'm in the majority that thinks the Arn Anderson thing will lead to a turn. Arn has always been Flair's enforcer, so by him backing down, he basically allowed for Flair to get killed. Flair, Booker T. and RVD would be fine for top RAW babyfaces, and with Triple H most likely getting the belt at KOTR, he'll probably show up on RAW to do something with the NWO as well. Maybe give Goldust the elevation (I NEVER thought I'd say that) since he's gotten over as Booker's "Best Friend", and RAW could still be OK.
Guest Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 It is funny how Goldust has gotten over because of his relationship with Booker. I remember being a critic of their relationship when they first started it, but strangely enough, as corny as it is, it's gotten both of them over and I guess that's all you can ask for
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 It's simple, really. The Booker/'dust segments have been some of the most entertaining things on Raw lately. And funny as in genuinely funny, not the desperately trying to be funny like Austin peeing on Arn, and the Dreamer crap. -Shiro
Guest oldschoolwrestling Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 This is why I don't like heels and faces, they're too unrealistic. Can't they just play their characters without worrying if they're the "good" guy or "bad" guy? I agree with that. The problem however, is that the marks get confused way too easily and when there is no clear cut person to boo or cheer for, you get the worst possible result=silence. Nothing kills a good match more than silence from the audience. Also, does this maybe lead to a heel stable? Brock, Eddy, Benoit with Paul and Arn? That could work.
Guest Zack Malibu Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I was thinking the new stable (Dangerous Alliance/4 Horsemen/whatever), but with the NWO, do they really want to do 2 heel stables on one show? That'd be overkill IMO.
Guest What?! Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 Am I the only guy out there that looked at that simply as Arn being scared sh*tless of Brock Lesnar thus making Brock look that much more intimidating? That's what I thought too.
Guest Tony149 Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 I think NWA/WCW fans wouldn't buy Arn Anderson scared of Brock. Why? Because as "The Enforcer", Arn stood up to anybody who tried to hurt Flair. One moment that sticks out in my mind was a Flair, Anderson & Vader promo on WCW Saturday Night in 1995 that would lead to Arn/Ric vs. Vader at the August Clash of the Champions. Arn got in front of Flair, while Flair said something along the lines of "If you have a problem, talk with the Enforcer." Of course, a lot of NWA/WCW fans probably don't watch wrestling anymore, so I guess it doesn't matter. I do think Arn is going heel though. Especially if the plan is still to stick him as Benoit's manager.
Guest notJames Posted June 12, 2002 Report Posted June 12, 2002 You have to remember, though, that earlier in the show, Arn took a manly shove from Vince... .. and did nothing about it. The Arn of old would have wasted him as soon as look at him. This is not the Arn of old. Plus, they seem to be gearing toward a major push for Brock, so any outside forces that can put him over as a player are probably encouraged.
Guest Risk Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 No matter how brave someone is, they're still succeptable to fear, pain, and age. BTW, just because Benoit is associating with what wrestling refers to as "heels" it does not make him one, at least in my book(thank you WCW JR). Of course, I'm not a mark, so I don't look at wrestlers as "heels" and "faces." The best drama in theatre, IMO, is based on shades of grey. The fans are silent during this because they're not used to it. I suggest SLOWLY giving them some of this instead of dictating who and why they cheer and boo.
Guest notJames Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 But you have to remember that the best-selling films in America are predicated on the simple dynamics of good vs. evil. Especially those god-awful summer blockbusters. I personally like shades of grey in my entertainment. I like to choose who I root for. But the success of the WW_ is dependent upon the unsophisticated masses who put the majority of Vince's ducats in his coffers. Ergo, let them eat cake. I would love for the writers and bookers to get more sophisticated with their storytelling. It would definitely enhance the quality of their shows (provided they have the right players) and raise the respectability of our great sport one, maybe two notches above Rollerball But until they grow a set and venture into that territory, we're stuck with what brung them to the dance, as it were. Sigh... yet again the dumb, unwashed masses dictate the course for the rest of us...
Guest evenflowDDT Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 What I meant Tony was that even after he walked out on Ric, it STILL wasn't commented on. Am I the only guy out there that looked at that simply as Arn being scared sh*tless of Brock Lesnar thus making Brock look that much more intimidating? This doesn't work for me because Arn very calmly turned his back and walked away. If he was really afraid he would have "run like a scalded dog", not to mention it would have been very heavily noted. JR loves to say that phrase when the "bad guys" retreat.
Guest RicFlairGlory Posted June 13, 2002 Report Posted June 13, 2002 WWF Logic sucks. WWF logic has been horrible for FAR too long...
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