Russian-Georgian War

[Guest]

Figured we may want to talk about this...it's not too pretty.

 

I'll start with the latest stories. I'm sure some of you have been keeping up with it.

 

Source: Reuters

* Georgian, Russian forces battle in Ossetia

 

* Saakashvili says Russian action a challenge to the world

 

* Rebels' president says 1,400 dead in South Ossetia

 

* Saakashvili to declare martial law

 

By Nikolai Pavlov

 

GORI, Georgia, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russian forces battled pro-Western Georgian troops in South Ossetia on Friday in an escalating conflict that threatens to engulf a key energy transit route to Western Europe.

 

Both sides ignored pleas from world leaders for calm as Moscow and Tbilisi blamed each other for the fighting in South Ossetia which began after several days of skirmishes. Georgian forces shelled the capital of its breakaway region, which separatists said left 1,400 people dead.

 

Moscow said its troops were responding to a Georgian assault to retake the region, which broke from Georgia as the Soviet Union was collapsing but has no international recognition.

 

The crisis, the first to confront Kremlin leader Dmitry Medvedev since he took office in May, with violence flaring in a region seen as a key energy transit route where Russia and the West are vying for influence. The hostilities dampened investor confidence and hit the Moscow stock exchange.

 

Georgia said Russia bombed airfields and Poti port deep inside its territory and Tbilisi and rushed tanks and troops into South Ossetia, formally still a part of Georgia, to reinforce its small force of peacekeepers.

 

"If the whole world does not stop Russia today, then Russian tanks will be able to reach any other European capital," President Mikheil Saakashvili said.

 

A top Georgian official said Saakashvili was planning to declare martial law within hours, a move that will gives him a free hand to manage the conflict.

 

The U.N. Security Council held a second meeting on the conflict on Friday, and diplomats said they hoped the council would unanimously call for a ceasefire.

 

A Reuters correspondent near Gori -- the birthplace of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin between South Ossetia and the Georgian capital -- saw Georgian troops heading back towards Tbilisi on otherwise empty roads, kicking empty ammunition cartons away from their lorries. Checkpoints usually manned by the international peacekeeping force in the region were abandoned on the darkened road. Two tanks stood unguarded by the roadside. Georgian soldiers said little and appeared exhausted.

 

RIVAL CLAIMS

 

The conflict over Georgia's breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia has bedevilled Georgia's relations with Russia, angered by Tbilisi's moves towards the Western fold and its pursuit of NATO membership.

 

Both the Russian-backed separatists and the Georgian government said they were in control of the regional capital Tskhinvali.

 

"Tskhinvali and the heights around Tskhinvali and the majority of the villages in South Ossetia are under the control of Georgian forces," Saakashvili said in a televised address.

 

Irina Galgoyeva, spokeswoman for separatist South Ossetia, denied the report. "The entire town of Tkshinvali is currently controlled by units of South Ossetia's self-defence," Russia's Interfax news agency quoted her as saying.

 

Political analysts saw Georgia's bid to re-take its rebel region of South Ossetia by force as a gamble by its leader that Ossetia and Abkhazia, another rebel region on the Black Sea.

 

"He is in big danger of losing the cachet he built up for himself in being pro-Western and the restraint he has often shown in the face of provocation by Russia," said James Nixey, of the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London.

 

Saakashvili, who wants to take his small Caucasus country in to NATO, has made it a priority to win back control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another rebel region on the Black Sea.

 

Saakashvili said the two countries were at war. The Georgian leader said on television: "What Russia is doing in Georgia is open, unhidden aggression and a challenge to the whole world.

 

The secretary of Georgia's Security Council, Kakha Lomaia, said Saakhashvili would impose martial law within hours. Russia, he said, had bombed Georgia's Black Sea port of Poti and a military base as part of what authorities believed was the start of attacks on civilian targets and infrastructure.

 

"CEASE ATTACKS"

 

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice urged Russia to withdraw combat troops from Georgia and stop air strikes.

 

"We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia's territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil," she said.

 

The president of South Ossetia, Eduard Kokoity, told Interfax about 1,400 people had been killed as a result of "Georgian aggression". Saakashvili put Georgian casualties at about 30, mostly in the military.

 

President George W. Bush, in Beijing for the opening of the Olympic Games, pledged U.S. support for Georgia's territorial integrity and called for an immediate ceasefire, the White House said.

 

Envoys from the United States, European Union and the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe were due to head to Georgia.

 

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said he had spoken to the Russian and Georgian foreign ministers, Sergei Lavrov and Eka Tkeshelashvili, to call for an end to the violence.

 

The Kremlin said Medvedev told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that "the only possible way out is the withdrawal of Georgian forces to starting positions".

 

Soldiers fired machineguns and armoured personnel carriers moved through the deserted streets of Tskhinvali.

 

Shell holes pierced the grey concrete apartment bocks and plumes of smoke hung over the South Ossetian capital.

 

Lavrov accused the Georgians of driving people from their homes.

 

The majority of the roughly 70,000 people living in South Ossetia are ethnically distinct from Georgians. They say they were forcibly absorbed into Georgia under Soviet rule and now want to exercise their right to self-determination.

 

 

 

U.S. tells Russia to pull forces out of Georgia

08 Aug 2008 22:59:31 GMT

Source: Reuters

(Adds U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, paragraphs 4-5)

 

By Susan Cornwell and Sue Pleming

 

WASHINGTON, Aug 8 (Reuters) - The United States told Russia on Friday to withdraw its forces from U.S. ally Georgia and stop its air attacks on the tiny Caucasus state following fighting in the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

 

"We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia's territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil," U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement.

 

Rice issued her statement as Georgia, a former Soviet state that now wants to join NATO, said it would declare martial law and battled to get control of the rebel enclave, which was fortified by Russian forces.

 

Georgia said Russian fighter jets bombed container tankers and a shipbuilding plant in the port of Poti, prompting Washington's sharpest rebuke of Russia since the crisis began.

 

"We deplore the Russian military action in Georgia, which is a violation of Georgian sovereignty and territorial integrity," U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad told reporters at a U.N. Security Council meeting in New York.

 

Both Rice and the White House urged an immediate cease-fire in South Ossetia, and U.S. officials said they would send an envoy to the region to help mediate.

 

As fighting raged in and around the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said Russia and Georgia were at war.

 

Rice said the United States was working with its European partners to launch international mediation, and "we urgently seek Russia's support of these efforts."

 

Diplomatic sources said the U.S. envoy would be Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Matthew Bryza, who is expected to join a mission that includes the European Union and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

 

Georgia is at the center of a battle for influence between the United States and Russia in the Caucasus.

 

President George W. Bush spoke to Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin about the crisis while both men were in Beijing for the Olympics. Bush has called Georgia a "beacon of democracy" in a volatile region.

 

Bush sent Rice to Tbilisi last month partly to encourage resolution of its long-running dispute with Russia over the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

 

NATO MEMBERSHIP

 

The Russian intervention came as something of a surprise to U.S. military officials who spent recent days monitoring the fighting in South Ossetia and Russia's military buildup.

 

"The build-up of forces was more than expected and they moved earlier than we thought they would," said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

 

American military planners reviewed contingency plans for the possible evacuation of up to 3,000 U.S. citizens from Georgia, including about 130 defense personnel there to train Georgian military forces for duty in Iraq.

 

Washington has pushed hard for NATO membership for Georgia, despite European misgivings over the state's stability. Russia strongly opposes Georgia's NATO bid.

 

Robert Hunter of the RAND Corporation, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, said "no one wants to fight for Georgia."

 

He said the United States had pushed too hard to try to get NATO membership for Georgia, and now Russia was trying to demonstrate, in part, that U.S.-led NATO efforts had their limits and Moscow's interests must be taken into account.

 

Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Russia should pull its forces out. "The consequences for Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave," he said.

 

Democrat Barack Obama condemned Russia's role. "What is clear is that Russia has invaded Georgia's sovereignty, has encroached on Georgia's sovereignty, and it is very important for us to resolve this issue as quickly as possible."

 

The U.S. embassy in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi warned Americans to defer "all travel to the conflict zones" of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and avoid nonessential travel in Georgia. (Additional reporting by David Morgan, Caren Bohan, Jeremy Pelofsky, Matthew Bigg and Louis Charbonneau; editing by Chris Wilson)

[snuffbox 0]

Do we still think that "looking into the soul" is a viable foreign policy?

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

By the limited amount that I've read so far, though, Georgia was moreso the aggressor here by invading South Ossetia because Saakashvili's presidency hangs by a thread on reclaiming that territory for Georgia. Why Georgia decided to take this action, KNOWING that it would cause Russia to intervene (because Russia gives citizenship to the people of South Ossetia) is baffling to me.

 

Georgia better hope that the world can now negotiate a ceasefire because if Russia wants to use its military to crush Georgia it can and that would be a major blow geopolitically for us due to the fact that a critical pipeline for our oil which runs from Azerbaijan to Turkey goes through Georgian territory. This whole issue is another reason why I never favored granting Georgia membership in NATO.

 

On a less serious note, I wonder how many Americans today thought that Russia was invading the U.S. state of Georgia. I ran into one person that actually thought this and had to explain to them that NO, there was actually a country called Georgia.

[Guest Cal Moriarty]

Wasn't modern-day Georgia historically known as Iberia, too? Sometimes we only have ourselves to blame for ambiguous nomenclature. Be original, you Cauc-suckers.

[snuffbox 0]

Supposedly, Russia has targeted internaional pipelines and airports. Completely wasting the US military in Iraq might prove to have been an even bigger mistake.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, maybe President Bush can nicely ask Putin to knock it off. That'll learn him.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

My general impression is that Georgia started this by trying to (re)take South Ossetia, and after Russia responded, Russia said 'fuck it, now that we're in it, lets take care of our own interests and finish the job' and have kept on going to an extreme.

 

I know what I'm going to be reading abuot this week though, trying to get more informed. Wow, military conflicts involving actual militaries and countries. It's like a throwback to yesteryear.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Supposedly, Russia has targeted internaional pipelines and airports. Completely wasting the US military in Iraq might prove to have been an even bigger mistake.

 

Even if they were available, I'm not sure sending US troops into this situation would be the best idea anyway. Needlessly antagonizing Russia (esp. in a situation like this where they're not completely in the wrong) really isn't something we need to be doing.

[snuffbox 0]

I'm not saying that it is. But if our involvement were to eventually become necessary (there or anywhere), the Iraq disaster could reap even more problems for us.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

It looks like we have the same scenario we saw in the Israel-Lebanon skirmish two summers ago. I believe that Russia WILL eventually push into Georgian territory after they make sure Georgia is clear of South Ossetia. They will do this to establish a buffer zone against further Georgian military encroachment, just as the Israelis did in Southern Lebanon until 1997 and were inclined to do again in 2006.

 

There are two big problems in this skirmish for the U.S. and the world. First, the U.S. is going to lose diplomatic face in this struggle because Georgia is looking to us to help them because they helped us in Iraq and due to the fact that we are not going to go to war with Russia over Georgia there are going to he hard feelings when this is done (especially if Russia seizes a quarter or so of Georgian territory). Also, there are implications for a future Georgian governments attitude with the U.S. because I doubt that Saakashvili will see out his term in the aftermath of this.

 

Second, there is the unique possibility of a wider war. Abkhazia, another breakaway territory in Georgia, has started to launch attacks against Georgian troops in the Kodori Gorge and reports have indicated that Russian troops have landed there as well. Furthermore, Ukraine is thinking of refusing Russian access to ports in the Crimea because of actions in Georgia and their willingness to be neutral. If Russia tries to force these ports open it could lead to war with Ukraine. Also, this war has the potential to explode other ethnic problems in the Caucuses. In a highly unlikely scenario, Russia could expand its reach with its military forces to capture back entire pieces of territory/disestablish sovereign nations to re-establish some influence of the old Soviet Union.

 

In fact, the only benefit we might gain strategically is that countries that have had big debates about whether they need more Western protection as a deterrent to Russian aggression (such as Ukraine) may now favor those close ties in allowing our military bases to be in their territory.

 

On the election front, John McCain seems to have gained a benefit as his firm line against Russia after their attacks has been picked up by President Bush and Obama has gravitated to that position (that is if you want to believe the spin the McCain camp is putting on everything). As an election observer, I also have to wonder whether Obama's vacation to Hawaii is going to pop up in some McCain ads ala Hillary's 3AM ads in the Democratic primary.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

This is such a strange situation as no one really wants to 'go there'. Georgia is screaming out for help, its getting LOADS of news coverage but no one really gives a damn in terms of support. Is it because its Russia? There's no oil at stake? Georgia were in the wrong anyway?

 

EDIT: Wow seems to have advanced even more. BBC say Russia are closing in on the Georgian Capital, with the Georgian Army retreating for 'one last stand'.

[At Home 0]

] Is it because its Russia?

 

Yes

[Nightwing 0]

The Georgian President is saying right now that his country will never surrender and he's demanding to know how Russia can explain how they had 1,000 tanks rolling into their country in hours when they said it wasn't planned.

 

I get a real Haile Selassie feeling from him. It's showing just how toothless the UN is right now with the SC Veto.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yes, it's because it's Russia. No one wants to start World War 3.

[snuffbox 0]

Remember when Glen Beck was reporting on World War 3 in the summer of 2006?

[Vampiro69 0]

Remember when Glen Beck was reporting on World War 3 in the summer of 2006?

 

I am sure that Marvin does.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Glenn had the President of Georgia on his show a year or so ago.

 

He talked about this on his show today and explained the whole thing in great detail, which sort of lost me half through, but it all comes back to the fact that Russia is dead set on becoming the new OPEC for the 21st century by gobbling up all the sources of oil they can find and having strict control of the flow of that oil. They cut taxes to a flat rate of 13% and threw everything they had behind this plan which has really jumpstarted their economy and provided them with lots of money to go after more sources of oil.

 

The issue comes to the fact that Georgia is in very good area for transporting oil to Europe and Russia wants to control it, while Georgia is trying to set up a pipeline itself that would run to Turkey and be a secondary supply of oil competing with Russia. Russia is threatening any country that buys oil from that pipeline with being cut off from Russian oil.

 

If Russia ever manages to control the area and thus the major route to which oil is transported to Europe, they would pretty much have complete control over all of Europe by being able to cut off that oil supply at an time they want for whatever reason they want at the flick of a switch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[snuffbox 0]

Glen Beck explaining foreign affairs to people, and the people actually listening, is such a sad concept.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

He talked about this on his show today and explained the whole thing in great detail, which sort of lost me half through

 

Hahahaha

[At Home 0]

Russia's just trying to get back at Georgia for that whole "Joseph Stalin" thing.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Glen Beck explaining foreign affairs to people, and the people actually listening, is such a sad concept.

just for you!

 

GLENN: I saw a story on Friday as we all did. The news broke that Russia was bombing, Russia was bombing Georgia. I'm going to play an interview that I had with the president of Georgia in just a few minutes and you have to hear it. You have to know who these people are. Right now you'll see in the papers the Georgians saying where's America, why is America not helping us. They have streets named after George W. Bush. They understand our founding fathers. They understand democracy. They want to be free. They try to model themselves after us in the good old days when we had sense and had values. They have worked tirelessly to take corruption out of the system. Now, a lot of people, I've read story after story after story, and a lot of people will explain some of it but they will do it in such a way that honestly you want to hang yourself by the end of it and so you just don't pay attention. It is important that we pay attention to Russia because it goes into something that I've been talking about for the last couple of months. So let me try to explain first of all what the media has been trying to explain and then let me take you to a place where I don't think anybody else is going. So here's the first part. Let's say the country is Georgia, is our State of Georgia, okay? And let's say Russia is the evil South Carolina, got it? Georgia is the State, Russia is the State of South Carolina. Georgia's friendly. They believe in freedom, they believe in democracy. They love it. But Savannah doesn't like being part of Georgia. They really want to become their own state. They are much more closely aligned with the evil South Carolina. Now, there's no debate on whether Savannah's actually part of Georgia or not. They are. In the early Nineties, though, they tried to pull away from Georgia and a peace keeping force including troops from the evil South Carolina have been there since the early Nineties. Well, the new governor of Georgia has made it a priority to actually deal with the problem and not just let it fester because of something that the media's not talking about that I will in a second, they got to solve this problem. So he told Savannah, you can govern yourself but you are still a part of Georgia. They said, no, we want our independence. So about a week or so ago, the fighting broke out and both Savannah and Georgia say the other side started it but eventually Georgia decided that they were going to crack down. The United Nations then stepped in and expressed serious concerns that the escalation of violence, and they issued a strongly worded statement to that effect. What a shock, that didn't solve the problem. Usually it does. So the question is, is Georgia allowed to fix their own problem inside their own borders, yes or no. Well, South Carolina, aka, Russia, they are always so helpful. They have offered citizenship to all the residents of Savannah. If you live in Savannah and you want to be a Russian citizen, hey, congratulations; you're a citizen. It would be like George Bush and Dick Cheney going into Iraq and offering citizenship to the Iraqi citizens. And then when the government of Iraq says, United States, you might want to get out, and they start suppressing the riots there, then George Bush and Dick Cheney can say they're slaughtering our citizens. Not really. Most Savannah residents now have taken advantage of the offer. So that's how South Carolina is justifying their involvement. They say they are since, we have to protect them. South Carolina pushed back hard, bombed targets inside of Georgia. Since then Georgia says cease fire, cease fire, cease fire. And then they explain how South Carolina isn't honoring it. So that's basically where we stand. In reality here's what it is. If you believe Georgia is the good guys, they are right. If you believe Russia is the good guy, you're right. I don't know who that is, but it all comes down to whose story you buy unless you know the real story. If you are picking sides, you should know that Georgia has proved itself a great ally. If that's all, as far as you want to go, they are strong supporters of America, strong supporters and joined us in the Iraq war. Now they have to pull out many of their troops to deal with the situation at home, but listen to the Georgian citizens, the voices that are quoted now in the financial times and a few other papers, thank goodness, requests where is America. Why won't America and NATO help us. If they don't help us now, why did we help them? The Russians will be here tomorrow. They want to show us and the world how powerful they really are. Tomorrow it will be Ukraine, and nobody in the West is doing anything to stop Russia. Why were our soldiers in Kosovo and our soldiers in Iraq if we never get any help from the West?" Doesn't this sound like the Kuwaitis? Doesn't this sound like the Iraqis after they rose up during the after the first Gulf War when they said, wait a minute, you told us to rise up; you said you would supporters; where are you? Georgia in some ways is like Israel. Eastern Europe is a beacon of hope for democracy in Georgia, surrounded by Putin on one side and the weasels of Western Europe on the other. They need at least our verbal our strong, verbal support here.

 

By the way, in a completely unrelated story, oil prices are up today. Now, some cynical people might think that Russia is escalating the situation to stop the fall of oil prices, but that would be crazy to think that this is a war for oil, wouldn't it? Be crazy.

 

Last night I stayed up, because I wanted to brush up on Georgia to be able to tell you because I know if you're like me, you see the Georgia think and you're like, what is this? I think I kind of get it but I'm not really sure, I know Putin's a bad guy, Russia, we can't really trust them. What's this all about. So I wanted to be able to come prepared to tell you this story so you don't have to think it through, so you don't have to go do your own homework. I want to take you back to something that Ronald Reagan said back in the 1980s. He said, do not to Europe. They were about to let the Russian or the then Soviet empire build a natural gas, an oil pipeline all the way through the heart of Europe. And Ronald Reagan actually had to fly over to Europe and say and convince all the leaders, what, are you crazy? Don't do it; you will be slaves to their energy. He convinced them. They didn't do it. Well, they've built it now and already we have seen while everybody is paying no attention to them, they are buying up all of the natural gas and all of the oil reserves everywhere they can get their hands on. They already have a ton of oil. That's why they have been able to rebuild. Putin has used an iron fist. He has taken control of the oil companies. He cut taxes down to 13%, a flat tax of 13% and their economy exploded. Hmmm. That's crazy, isn't it? He took control of their oil companies and he said screw everything else; we're going to be oil. We are going to be the OPEC of the next century.

 

So the United States, along with that evil Darth Vader, Dick, you're my vice president; you're not my father and you're not Dick Cheney. "Yes, I am Darth Vader." Darth Vader, aka, Dick Cheney, decided to go over to Georgia because they built this giant pipeline and Dick Cheney being an evil oilman, knew exactly what Ronald Reagan, who wasn't an oilman was, just kind of like that freedom thing, decided, you know what, we really can't have only one pipeline coming out of this area. Otherwise Russia will control everything. So he got together with a few states and they decided to build a pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Baku, wherever the hell that is, okay? Putin didn't like that. That was a very bad idea because it would challenge his pipeline that ran from Baku to Turkey. That's the one Russia said don't ever let them build this. Well, the Russians along with the Italians who are now in bed with Gazprom are doing everything they can to ensure that a bypass and a second pipeline isn't built. Putin is doing this, or has been doing this by not only going after the suppliers and saying don't sell your oil to the secondary pipeline but also to the customers and saying, don't you ever buy your oil from this pipeline.

 

So here's what's really going on. I've been telling you about this for a while and nobody is paying attention. There are three things that I want to tie together for you this half hour: John Edwards, the Olympics and Georgia. Let's start with Georgia. Nobody is paying attention to the real story. The real story is this truly is war for oil. What Russia is trying to do is take all of their money and they are trying to buy up all of the natural resources of gas and coal and oil and they are going to be the world's leader in those natural resources. That's why they are connecting to anyone that has it. They want to be the leader of the new OPEC. Why do you think they took a submarine and shot a torpedo tube with a flag in it to the top of the world? Because they are laying claim to all of the natural resources underneath Santa's castle. They are consolidating their power through energy. They have replaced nuclear weapons with energy. Why use a nuclear weapon when you can just shut down somebody's energy. Oh, yeah, Germany, you really need to go along with this or we're going to shut down your power. Yeah, I don't think we're going to sell you any more natural gas. Oh, Georgia, you've got a problem with that? Boy, it's January. Yeah, you hear that? I'm just shutting down the pipeline for you. They are intent on being the world's superpower yet again. So why is it that a country that has been so helpful to us, why is it a country that wants to be in NATO and NATO wants them to be in, why is it that this unbelievably Democratic state that thinks like we do, why is it that NATO isn't speaking up? Why is it that George Bush isn't speaking up? Why is it that George Bush could sit two seats away at the opening ceremonies from Putin as they are bombing a country that we expect, that identifies, that has pictures of George W. Bush up. He's a national hero there. How is it George Bush can kind of, like, laugh about the Olympics and talk? Because we're not going to say anything. You know we can't say anything. Because we are in the reverse situation where we put them at the end of the cold war. We cannot afford to do anything with Russia. We are their little play thing now. And they are con they are grabbing all of the energy. While we sit here and listen to these clowns in Washington tie our hands with energy. If we don't wake up to our energy situation, we will be dominated and controlled and slaves to Russia.

 

Congrats if you actually managed to read 1/2 of that. His "Georgia is Georgia and Russia is South Carolina" part was informative but still confusing on the root cause of the conflict but it still comes back to the oil issue as to why Russia is doing what they are doing.

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

Oh my God for some reason I actually tried to read that and half-way through my brain liquefied and tarted dripping out my ear and now it's all over my keyboard and seeping into the carpet and I think I might have to go tht hospital. Thanks Glen nBecks.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Oh my God for some reason I actually tried to read that and half-way through my brain liquefied and tarted dripping out my ear and now it's all over my keyboard and seeping into the carpet and I think I might have to go tht hospital. Thanks Glen nBecks.

 

To Glenn's credit, whoever transcribes his show is horrible at it.

[Starks 0]

Time magazine has coped a lot of deserved criticism over the past few years for their selection of Person of the Year (winners such as The Whistle-blowers, The American Soldier, The Good Samaritans, You (!?!) and Rudy Giuliani over Osama Bin Laden?). The award was quickly losing it's lofty status. But they absolutely nailed the selection of 2007's Person of the Year.

 

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/per...1696150,00.html

 

 

A long article, but one of the best to grace the pages of Time Magazine in a long time.

[EricMM 0]

So, people need to realize that the areas Russia invaded were part of Georgia that Russians kind of migrated to. Also, Russia spammed the areas with Russian passports.

 

Georgia sent troops into its own areas to surpress rebellion...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Why Georgia decided to take this action, KNOWING that it would cause Russia to intervene (because Russia gives citizenship to the people of South Ossetia) is baffling to me.

 

Because Saakashvili thought he had a green light from the US & the West. The training, arms, & NATO-talk that Georgia had been receiving made it feel invincible, it seems.

 

This is just from a soldier, but I get the sense that the Georgian leadership was thinking along these lines as well:

 

Exhausted Georgian troops, their faces covered with stubble, said they were angry at the United States and EU for not coming to Georgia's aid. A Georgian major who was driving an armored truck out of South Ossetia and who gave his name as Georgy, said, 'Over the past few years I lived in a democratic country, and I was happy. Now America and the European Union spit on us.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/eu...amp;oref=slogin

 

Also, when Bush et al supported the secession of Kosovo from Serbia, Putin vowed to provide similar support for the irredentist, pro-Russian areas of Georgia.

 

 

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Also, looks like there's a halt in the fighting now.

 

This is kinda funny, McCain seems to have lifted portions of a speech on the Georgia crisis from Wikipedia:

 

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsid...-his-speec.html

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

This is kinda funny, McCain seems to have lifted portions of a speech on the Georgia crisis from Wikipedia:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsid...-his-speec.html

 

But I thought he didn't know how to use a computer!

[At Home 0]

So I guess the Great Satan of the West isn't totally defunct, huh.

[Nightwing 0]

This is kinda funny, McCain seems to have lifted portions of a speech on the Georgia crisis from Wikipedia:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/politicalinsid...-his-speec.html

 

But I thought he didn't know how to use a computer!

 

The intern writing his speeches was totally on this 40-man raid when all this war stuff happened, so he had to cut a few corners on the research side of things.