Guest Downhome Posted July 2, 2002 Report Posted July 2, 2002 I know how many "smarks" on the internet say how they wish that Taker, Nash, Show, Test, HHH, and other such wrestlers would just be fired, go away, and never be on TV again, and in place of them would be guys like RVD, Benoit, Eddy, Booker T, etc... If WWE actually booked this way, and disposed of all of the "internet heels", would the casual fans at home actually take to such booking? We all know that the internet is a VERY small percentage of the fans that watch on TV, so would it be a succes if they actually did it? This can actually be a two part question. First, what if WWE booked in this way for the past few years, where do you think they would actually be right now? Then, what if they just decided right now out of nowhere to do it, what would happen to ratings, etc... Would the casual fans take to it, or would they fade away more so than they are doing right now? Sincerely, ...Downhome...
Guest FakeRazor Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 If a fed was booked the way smarks wanted, it would fail. The change would have to be subtle and over time if it was to work.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Well..to be honest.. Most of us just want the "wrestling" part back in it. Guys like RVD are over enough to deserve a main event spot (hell, if Hogan got a good pop for one match..and he got the world title..why not RVD who's been over constantly for a year?). Eddy's one of the best heels in the WWE, and best wrestlers they have. Ditto Benoit. Booker T is on the verge of superstardom. Why not push these guys? Could they do any worse than they are now? No. Fans didn't care about the KOTR because it was obvious Lesnar would win, even to casual fans. (I know quite a few). RVD/Booker as a final, for example, would have made people sit up and take notice. How about the Main Event and 20 minutes of silence? (Until the Rock came out). I think the crowd would have reacted differently to people they geniunely CARE about. That's why RVD, Booker, Rocky, Hurricane, Eddy, Benoit, etc..get cheered/booed. People care. -Shiro
Guest Downhome Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 If a fed was booked the way smarks wanted, it would fail. The change would have to be subtle and over time if it was to work. So if they did it out of nowhere you think it would fail, but what if they did it slow? Do you think in that situation that there would be a chance it would be a success? Also, on a side note... ...either PM me, or contact me on AIM at Downhome00, thanks!
Guest FakeRazor Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Hmm, its hard to say if it would work if it was a gradual change. I would hope that the common fan would appreciate the good matches that were being put on, and accept guys like Benoit, Booker T, etc as top dogs. I'm sure if booked right, they'd all get over well, and things would be good. So I guess it would have a shot at suceeding. I'll make sure to IM you next time I'm on.
Guest SuperTonyJaymz Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I think it might succeeded but all the Smarks would tell everyone they are Marks and start saying how "Kevin Nash isn't being oushed enough"
Guest Downhome Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Well..to be honest.. Most of us just want the "wrestling" part back in it. Guys like RVD are over enough to deserve a main event spot (hell, if Hogan got a good pop for one match..and he got the world title..why not RVD who's been over constantly for a year?). Eddy's one of the best heels in the WWE, and best wrestlers they have. Ditto Benoit. Booker T is on the verge of superstardom. Why not push these guys? Could they do any worse than they are now? No. Fans didn't care about the KOTR because it was obvious Lesnar would win, even to casual fans. (I know quite a few). RVD/Booker as a final, for example, would have made people sit up and take notice. How about the Main Event and 20 minutes of silence? (Until the Rock came out). I think the crowd would have reacted differently to people they geniunely CARE about. That's why RVD, Booker, Rocky, Hurricane, Eddy, Benoit, etc..get cheered/booed. People care. -Shiro I basicly agree with your line of thinking 100%, but I must ask you, do you feel that RVD is "Main Event" over? I mean, yes he gets a very good reaction, but do the fans as of right now look at him as someone who is deserving of the Undisputed World Title? Or is he simply one of those "hugely over" midcarder/uppder midcarder? Like it or not, fans look and accept guys like Taker, HHH, etc... as main event threats. So, is RVD ready to be accepted in THAT light? Same goes for Benoit (I think he's actually ready), Eddy, Booker T, etc... They are over, but are they Main Event over? I mean, Rey Jr. and Konnan and whatnot were VERY over in WCW, but I highly doubt many would take them serious as World Champion back then. Don't get me wrong, I feel that RVD and company are ready right now, I'm just, eh... ...playing Devil's advocate, lol.
Guest El Psycho Diablo Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 RVD: Would he fly as World Champion? Yes. He's got a level of credibility right now that few others have. He knows how to get the fans behind him, and how to get his point across in a short ammount of time. Both qualities a face champion needs. To become a champion shouldn't require seven or nine years of being "insanely over". Taker, to me, is a credible champion right now. Due to the reaction he's been recieving, I doubt many think that about HHH. He's coming off like Austin-lite, doing the "invincible babyface" routine. Why would Rob Van Dam be a suitable champion? He's the kind of guy people don't hesitate to cheer for. His spots get popped..but so do his entrance, his promos, his ringwork..his matches. People can get behind him. That's a quality Triple H lacks as a face. Chris Benoit: He'd be a credible Main Event threat. Why? He's already proven he can bring it in the ring. True, he's no Rocky..but neither is HHH. He can at least get his point across without sounding foreign on the stick. Eddy: What can I say here? The man gets heat by simply BREATHING. He's easily one of the most 'over' heels on the roster. People love to hate this guy. His ringwork is amazing, and he's got the charisma he needs to "step up" -Shiro
Guest Human Fly Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I think that RVD would be a credible Champ. If for no other reason then he's beaten most of the ME wrestlers. I think RVD could have won the belt last Fall and people would have had no problem with it.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I don't think HHH should just go away, but I do think he should get his ass in gear and start putting on good matches again. On the other hand, I really want Booker T to get the main event push, but if it happens right this instant, it will suck. Wait until ratings are back up and then step him into the ME scene. I'd rather an incredibly over upper midcarder for four more months, than have him Main Event to empty crowds.
Guest Trivia247 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Simply put, there is only a small population of "smarks" Who actually pay attention to work rates wrestlers pushes, movesets etc the rest is the overly majority is the Rabid Markish Cattle in the arena that get hooked on catch phrases mic work and charisma, usually these are the people who buy all the merchandise. If we were really listen to, alot of the Roster would probably be fired by next week. the rest would wrestle each other every week over and over, then rousing debates will start with the smarkish represented Bookers on who gonna win each and every time. The cattle in the stands probably get bored quickly over the same wrestlers wrestling all the time.. The WWE probably won't improve if the controls were handed to some of us, unless we understood we had to keep the unstellar wrestlers to work with the stellar kind.
Guest TheSmarkzone Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 No, it wouldn't fly. And it wouldn't please the Internet crowd, because they thrive on complaining about the product and would just find something new to bitch about. The minute the WWE trimmed down to a "workers only" roster, they would start crying that they needed to push more big men. Or midgets. Or female wrestlers. Although...I have to say that both the marks and the "smart marks" would probably applaud the Big Show getting the F out.
Guest Austin3164life Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 There's no way to know if it would really work, because they haven't tried it in a long time. The only way to find out is to keep heading in the direction they are now (with the entertaining Raw last night). Less skits, more good wrestling......
Guest Dangerous A Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 "I don't think HHH should just go away, but I do think he should get his ass in gear and start putting on good matches again." This statement is pure gold. I hope HHH looks at himself in the mirror after the elbow surgery and asks himself, "Am I a bodybuilder or a pro wrestler"? Because the bodybuilder in him is what is causing the slow down in workrate and his injury count to be higher. HHH really needs to do some soul searching because there is still good stuff left in him, he just needs to get in gear is all.
Guest pappajacks Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Unfortunately, it would fail because 70% of wrestling fans are marks.
Guest Downhome Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 HHH really needs to do some soul searching because there is still good stuff left in him, he just needs to get in gear is all. I agree 100%, thus the reason that I HOPE that they actually put HHH in nWo instead of having him fight them for some odd ass reason. Like it or not, HHH in nWo would succed in two things... ...one, it would actually make the nWo look like a TRUE threat, especially if they go into a major heel mode of the nWo with HHH being his bad as heel self, and two, it would freshen up HHH, give him some guys who, like it or not, he does have a hell of a lot of chemistry with, which could in effect make him look better.
Guest gwf0704 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 No, it wouldn't fly. And it wouldn't please the Internet crowd, because they thrive on complaining about the product and would just find something new to bitch about. The minute the WWE trimmed down to a "workers only" roster, they would start crying that they needed to push more big men. Or midgets. Or female wrestlers. So true, So true!!
Guest TheHulkster Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Smarks are just as fickle as casual fans, but in different ways. A year ago when RVD first came into the WWF, a lot of smarks typecasted him as a spot wrestler and weren't really high on him being the future of the wwf. A year ago, the Hardys and Triple H were smarks favorites. I think it's best left to the people who have been in the business for many years, and know the ins and outs of wrestling like the back of their hands.
Guest M Nyland Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Is it even possible to book for a "smark" ....our opinions vary greatly....hence...OF COURSE we will still have something to bitch about...
Guest I Fear Hogans Air Guitair Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 RVD: He's got the Fan's behind him and is consistently over they pop for every Spot and Promo he does. If they had a big build up with him VS Brock Lesnar at Vengenance for the Title Shot and the IC Title in the same match i could be huge they could shown Video packages of Brock going over him for the KOTR crown then RVD messing up Brock's KOTR Celebration Then RVD having Brock Beat with the Split Legged Moonsault but Heyman's Interferance causing Brock to get a DQ loss. In The first fall they should have Brock go over RVD for the IC Title at Vengenance and RVD beating Brock for the Title shot in the second fall. Eventually leading to RVD VS Taker at Summerslam and they actually have they the history to pull it off.
Guest Downhome Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 A year ago, the Hardys and Triple H were smarks favorites. A year ago I don't think RVD was totally "in" with WWE style, or at least wasn't used to working with these type of guys. He has since improved and fixed that, not too much, but it is noticeable. Oh yeah, and as far as HHH goes, a year ago (more than a year ago), he was actually a force and pretty good in the ring, now, he's just an injury prone machine who sucks balls as a cliched face. I want him heel, and I want him heel NOW.
Guest Brian Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Defiantely the WWE could succeed. Being the only game in town, they have a loyal enough fan base to succeed under most circumstances. The changes don't have to even be slow. Doing something seemingly subtle like not forcing everyone to work the same style would benefit wrestling huge. It's basically the reason why RVD is over, because he did something at one point that was so different in style and his spots are still for the most part original enough to continue to be over. Hurricane busts out a vertibreaker. TAKA a crisp Michinoku driver. Benoit and Regal being viciously stiff (hell, they've already trained most fans to cheer for chops which barely scratch the surface). There's actually no reason right now that a large group of wrestlers can't work on their own, rather than in the constraints, and still build good storylines.
Guest gangsteruwa Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 If by "booked the way "smarks" want" you mean better/more wrestling and less 20 minute promos, then yes it would do better. Here is a quote from a "Mark", "I wish they would stop the talking bullshit and get back to wrestling." Sounds pretty "Smarkish" to me. I have heard variations of that from casual fans all the time. I think some of you people underestimate "Marks", when in fact not all are as retarded as you claim they are. I have yet to meet one of these retarded "Marks" (well technically I have, but he was actually retarded).
Guest Brian Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Good wrestlers can carry months worth of storylines and character traits in their matches.
Guest O.J. Hart Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 If the WWE booked it the way i wanted, Dawn marie would be constantly be wearing a thong. I would be her manager or something and follow her holding up signs about the ass(kinda like Lodi) Some Ideas for that "All hail the ass" "I'd Rather be in Dawn Marie" "Dawn 0:69-I just screwed her ass"
Guest M Nyland Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I've also heard casual fans say they talk too much and they hate that... I really don't care how much they talk as long as it gets some point across... if they can do something in a 3 minute interview...don't take 20 minutes... but wouldn't it be really wierd if Vince came out at the beginning of RAW or SD and said... "these are the matches that you are going to see......" and then ran off 7 or 8 matches and then just left and never came back for the rest of the show..... Smarks wouldn't know how to cope with that... - this has been: M Nyland BAH!
Guest crandamaniac Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 Me personally, i dunno if this makes me a mark or smark or whatever, but I think I could do without matches over Shampoo bottles, Hitting Dogs in parking lots and what not, and more over just jealousy, or wanting to take another guys spot and wanting to basically out do the other guy. People don't watch a Lakers Game b/c Kobe may get a sneaker endorsement if the Lakers win
Guest M Nyland Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 ...if Kobe makes this shot...he will get the greatest shoe deal of all time! KOBE: I'm King of the World! *HHH comes out of stands and drops Kobe with a HIGH KNEE~! and starts to pull at his face* HHH: "I know it's you under there, Jericho...I thought I buried you!" - this has been: M Nyland Sheeps can tell jokes too....BAH!
Guest Rabbi_wilson13 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I think it would work, and you don't even have to get rid of the guys at the top, like your Hogan's and HHH's. Just put them into roles where they work well and let the wrestlers wrestle. They'll get over enough. Look at Benoit's IC Title run. He never really said a word til his feud with Jericho, but he defended that title on Raw, Smackdown and Heat and was over as all hell. He just beat people cleanly after long matches. That's something we tend to forget when talking about people putting others over and building new stars. If you wrestle a 15-minute match, there really isn't a loser. You just think to yourself "Hey, if they went again and a couple things went like this, the other guy would win." Like Cena/Angle. Or the Dudley/Radical tag match on Raw. Longer matches with good or at least capable wrestlers make everybody look good.
Guest Michael Joel Benoit Posted July 3, 2002 Report Posted July 3, 2002 I don't think a smart only WWE would work. The sheep have been trained by the WWE to like sportz-entertainment over pure wrestling. Why do you think the WWE never mentions the great and storied history of professional wrestling? And if a smart WWE worked, the smarts would die. The whole point of being a smart or smark is to be in the inside of pro wrestling and bitch and complain. IMO, smarks are like the George Carlin of wrestling:always complaining with comedy.
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