Nightwing

I have to agree; very interesting, even for someone not familiar with your history. Like the Sun Tzu quote, as well. I also fully approve of Fed-Based arson, if that's what you're implying is going to happen.

Hey, here's my dark match, which I figured would be better as an actual dark match. I decided to take the advice and try to make it more of a promo (thanks, WhollyChao) to show off my characters psyche. Writing in first person is tough, and lemme say that Ced's moveset isn't exactly the most fun to work with. But here it is! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man, I’m nervous. I mean, I’ve never been to a serious gig before. The crowd is loud; I can hear them from backstage, shuffling, talking, yelling stuff. And every time I can get a peak out, it’s not even half full yet. I think I’ve been here for a half-an-hour, waiting for the pre-show to start; one of the guys told me that I was going to be running a quick dark match before the show to warm up the crowd for everyone. Easy, right? I bang the back of my head against the concrete wall once. My stomach is doing barrel rolls. For a second, I wonder what it’s going to be like when I come out for a real match, when… “And now, a special pre-show dark match for your enjoyment!” the voice booms from the arena, and it looks like it’s going to be time to go out. “The following match is a standard singles match. Count-outs, ring breaks, and disqualifications are all in effect! Entering first…” For a second, I’m confused, because I haven’t seen my opponent once while I’ve been sitting/standing/pacing/freaking out back here. The lights outside get dark as someone says “Night of Fire!”, and a few smoke machines turn on in the back, covering the ramp in a ground-hugging fog. That’s the first time I notice that the top of the ramp has a door on the floor, which slides out of the way. The song keeps playing, but I’m oblivious to it as the group of girls begins to rise up, with my opponent standing behind them. The crowd is starting to cheer, the beat building up… “FIRE!” The fireballs shoot up from the stage surprise me a bit, and the girls all start going into some sort of dance routine, while my masked foe stands there in the middle of it. “Hailing from Sacramento, California, and weighing in at 95 Kilograms… CED! ORRRRRRRRDONEZ!” The ridiculous light-show/dance-off continues, and for a second I wonder whether or not I should do a serious revision of my own entrance. But enough of that; he’s walking down the ramp, and I need to get into character. I give a sigh and start bouncing on the balls of my feet. I’m a superhero. I’m Blue Leaf. I’m Canada’s new protector. The mantra repeats in my head, and the stage manager looks up from his clipboard and points at me. Time to step up. “And his opponent…” The lights stay up for my entrance, and the full force of the arena hits me like cold water. I’ve played in plays with a few hundred people, and I even did a gig in Ottawa in front of 1500 people. But man, there are definitely more than that here. Thousands, but it feels like millions. For a second, it’s like having an out of body experience; I can see myself, waving at the crowd with a goofy grin on my face as the crowd gives me a nice cheer in response. “Hailing from the GREAT, WHITE NORTH, he is the newest member of the SWF, and Canada’s newest Superhero! Weighing in at 101 kilograms… BLLLLLLUUUUUE LEAAAAAAAAAF!” I start to jog down the ramp, and my heart is pumping like there’s no tomorrow. I slap hands with a few of the people on my way down… at least, I think I did. I can’t even feel my hands right now. Normally, my mind would be screaming, but it’s not even like I’m there anymore: I’m just watching while my body does the rest. As I slide in, I notice they don’t have the announcers out yet. For a second, I’m a little angry, but it’s my first match. Start small, get big. I look up at the ref (some old, balding guy), and give him nod that I’m ready. He looks over at my opponent, who also gives a nod. Show time. *DING DING DING* The bell rings, causing a roar of the crowd that vibrates through my bones for a second. I hesitate to come out of my corner, and thankfully my opponent doesn’t rush me quick; he comes out cautiously. I slowly come out of my shock and meet him midway in the ring. For a second, I toy with the idea of offering a handshake… … But that’s laying things on a little too thick. He starts to circle, and I go on the offensive first, throwing a hard open palm blow that flies just past his ear. I reset, and then go for a hard side kick, which he jumps back from, letting my foot fly past an inch away from his stomach. He’s fast. Nearly as fast as me. I move a final time, throwing a palm that crosses his face, missing again. But as he moves in for a strike of his own, I pull back my arm back, landing an elbow right into his cheek. Nearly as fast. He stumbles to the left a step or two, and I start laying it on: my right leg dashes out and hits him twice in the torso, pushing him back into the ropes. He bounces off a little bit and I grab his arm to toss him at the other side. The crowd starts to fade out from my head as I slingshot off the ropes myself, and as we approach I take to the air, my body landing right across his chest. We hit the ground together, and the ref begins his first count of the night. ON-And the guy kicks out before the zebra can slap the mat once. The crowd comes back to my ears, a little louder than it was before. I kip up to my feet, while my anime-masked opponent (I still can’t believe his mask. At least I’m not THAT big of a dork…) begins to roll to his, and I start my assault again. I miss a palm strike, but I nail him kick to the gut that doubles him over… …At least, I though it did. He grabs my leg, and I quickly do what they taught me to in wrestling school: I leap up on my one foot for an enzuigiri that he manages to duck his head under. I can see a smile underneath his mask, and I go for the rebound, swinging my foot around for a Gamengiri… that also misses. But while I try to ready myself for a one-footed landing, my leg twists, forcing my body to follow it to the mat. My nose hits first, and the canvas doesn’t give much as I hit it hard. My face stings, but I’m okay… until I feel 209 pounds land on the back of my calf and knee. The pain jolts through my body, and I can feel Ced holding it down for hard drop on the knee. Another painful drop, but this time I’m able to pull my leg as I roll to the side. My leg aches a little bit, but I’ll live. Superheroes don’t show pain, anyways. I get to my feet, but weird, anime fanboy is already ontop of me, grabbing my arm and swinging me to the other side of the ring. I start my slingshot running, and as I turn around, I can see him leap up, spinning backwa- -Oof. My chest catches his back elbow, and I slam back to the mat again. The crowd… so damn loud right now. I don’t think it’s many people cheering, but it’s so many more than I’m used to. I push off the ground, but I pay for being distracted with a knee right to my calf. My legs collapse, and I follow suit. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Buckle down, pay attention. I feel him start to grab my foot, and I flip onto my back and kick him away with my other leg. I kip up, and my knee stings me as I catch my footing. Stupid mistakes. Before I can make an attack, he moves in and grabs my arm for a whip. He tries to toss me towards the other side, but this time I hold on, spinning him around instead. He goes off running, and I take a little hop forwards, going for a trademark superkick… but he ducks under it and keeps running. Damn all, why can’t I catch him?! He bounces back, and leaps up, wrapping his legs around my head and spins me to the ground. My back bounces off, but it doesn’t hurt me enough to keep me down. I quickly move back up to my fe- - And I get nailed with something in the face. For a second, my vision goes black, and I feel the mat on my back. God, what hit me? I try to shift, but something lands on my chest before I can get up. The crowd is roaring… no, I’m not going to let some half-rate anime geek beat me. I open my eyes to the bright lights, and something hits the canvas next to me. “ONE!” “TWO!” I kick my legs in the air, thankfully stopping the count before the third beat comes down. He’s not faster than me, I’m just flustered. Nervous. Blue Leaf is a Superhero, he can beat this guy. I start to pull myself off the mat, but I get some unwanted help thanks to Ced. I can almost hear his smarmy smile, embarrassing me here. He takes my arm and swings me at the ropes, and the footsteps following me means he’s not far behind. Good. I leap up as I near the ropes, landing both feet on the second rope. The rope pushes outwards before it rebounds, and I twist as I home in on my pursuer. The guy tries to stop himself, but he’s not fast enough to dodge this kick. My feet land dead center in his chest, and he flies back like he got hit by a bullet. Of course, I’m not doing too much better. My face is still hurting from what I think was a kick, and I spend a few seconds on my knees, catching my breath. The crowd is really roaring after that last move; hopefully he knows who the real star is now. He’s starting to get up again, so I get to my feet first and wait for him to get up. He looks a bit shaken after that last move. Good. I start back on the offensive, and my body feels faster than it did before. I’m not as nervous, and the crowd is behind me. He tries to dodge my first palm shot, but he doesn’t make it and I clip him in the jaw. I start pounding him, left palm, right palm, pullback right elbow, left sidekick, and I finish with a big leaping roundhouse kick that sends him away in a drunken stumble and the crowd shows me its approval. I can feel the rush taking me, but I don’t let it go to my head: Blue Leaf has a job to do. Ced isn’t down yet; despite getting knocked hard, he’s only down on one knee, rather than being on his back. Gotta give him credit, he’s tough. But he’s not tougher than Blue Leaf, and start running at him. He can’t react quick enough, and I manage to step off his knee when I get close, spinning in the air to deliver a kick to the back of his head. He falls forwards like a collapsing wall, and I move in for a pin. “ONE!” “TWO!” “TH-“ And the little guy manages to kick out. Then again, I didn’t expect it to end this easily. My leg hurts a little bit, but not too much; he didn’t get to me long enough to do any lasting damage. I pull the guy up to his feet and position myself behind him, and I start to pull his head back for a reverse DDT… but it he’s much tougher than I thought he was. He quickly gives me an elbow to the ribs, but while I lose the reverse facelock, I latch my arms around his waist to not let him get too far awa- OH ChRIST OH CHRIST! Rolled forwards, scissored my leg. God, it feels like my leg is going to break off. My knee! Gah! Don’t yell, don’t scream. Can’t scream. Gotta find ropes. Ropes. Grrhr. Pull yourself towards them. Don’t give up, don’t give up. Rope! Oh God, that was close. My knee… God, it hurts. I can feel him pull me up to my fee-Knee to stomach. GAH. Can’t breath, he’s folding my knee up for a- AH! My knee! Christ, it hurts. Kneebreaker. God, it hurts. Feels like it got worked with a hammer. Gotta get up. My training tells me to roll out of the ring, but I don’t listen: Heroes don’t run away, so Blue Leaf isn’t going to. He pulls me up again, but I manage to spin around and push him away. My knee is killing me. I can hear a “Ced! Ced! Ced!” chant. My blood boils. He stands there, ready in the middle of the ring, just waiting for me to come in. I move in, hobbled, but I manage to come out with a sharp palm strike the flies past his head. He’s dancing. He’s making fun of me. Making fun of Blue Leaf. I swing wildly, and he does some dorky little dance move and flourish, and he nails me with a sharp kick that sends me reeling into the ropes. I’m so damn angry right now. I push myself up and lean against the ropes for a second, and I see him playing to the crowd, taking away my cheers. I shake off my knee; it hurts bad, but I don’t care. I put it down and start moving towards the guy, and he stops his show boating to concentrate on me again. I move in and swing my leg, slower than normal, and he dodges again. Damn it. I go for a punch, but he grabs my arm and swings me towards the ropes, and I see him come at me on the rebound with ah- Ouch. On the ground again. My eyes are looking up at the lights, so I’m not knocked out. My eyes are spinning in my head. I see the masked man pull me up and toss me towards the corner- Ah! My spine rattles with the impact, and he comes over towards the corner to give a hard kick to my stomach. This isn’t good. Gotta recover here. He starts to pull me up as I clutch my stomach in pain, putting me on the top rope. I already know what he’s going for, and I’m not going to let him just do it. He starts to climb up, and he starts reaching for me to hit his little moonsault maneuver, but I give him a sharp punch to the face. He’s stunned, but he gives me a punch to the face for my efforts. I’m not going to lose my first match. Not to some has-been. I punch him again, putting more force into it. I can feel the desperation creeping in my head, but I stay calm. He starts to pull back his own fist, but I punch him again. And again. He takes a step back down the turnbuckle, and I see my opening. I use the last bit of strength I have in my legs to get over his head. Thankfully the leap isn’t too big, and my legs catch underneath his arms. He tries to balance himself, but the momentum is too much, and he’s flipping backwards as I’m flipping forwards. The slam hits the mat with a crack, and the crowd roars for the maneuver. The little guy doesn’t move as the old ref hits the mat and starts slapping the ground. At this point, it’s elementary. “ONE!” “TWO!” “THREE!” The bell rings, and I let go of the pin. My knee hurts still, but I get up quicker than I have during the entire match. The crowd cheers, the ref raises my hand, and I love every second of it. I go over to Ced; I don’t really want to help him up, but Blue Leaf would. I extend my hand, and he grabs it. He looks a bit shaken up, and in my head, I smile. That’ll teach your ass to try and make me look stupid. But on the outside, I give him a hearty handshake. The crowd gives me a pop, and I take it in. A little sloppy, but every hero has to start somewhere.

So was I.

Leopold just decided not to sell to Balsillie. He didn't like the idea of the team moving to Hamilton. So, I guess it's Leopold that doesn't like making money. Actually, they just defined it on TSN/Versus: They don't want a conditional deal (or something along those lines), they want a definite deal, that's all. And just to ask: Those are the new jerseys right now, right? I can't really tell, but I only just started watching.

Penguins pick him up.

Hey, real quick: I just wrote out my character entry in a pretty basic format here. Feel free to copy it and use it for your own characters.

I was just reading the oddness that is the 'eList' thread, which sparked me to look at the SWF entry on their wiki. Of course, the first result turned up some "Southern Wrestling Federation", a problem which I solved after thinking up a solution that won't get our forum invaded. But reading our wiki entry, I really think that we should look into creating a more complete entry. I know the fed doesn't have a website (Why, I don't know), but this would be a great place to put down things like individual stats, championship runs, and other things. Apparently there are still people who are quite old and know a bunch about the history of the fed. For someone like me, who is right now blowing through a ton of the history (I'm currently looking through a lot of the SJL stuff, since it's a shorter stack than the WF stuff), it'd be nice to have a general guide to things. I know it sounds really daunting, but I don't think it is. If organized correctly, and with only a minimal amount of debate (I'm not sure what type of 'eras' the SWF has had, outside knowing that it probably had a Golden Age at some time), it wouldn't be too hard. If we started by just creating wiki entries for our characters (And perhaps some of the more important retirees, like our current announcers... please?), I think we could actually have fun with it. And does this place have a Hall of Fame? Because we should probably should note it somewhere.

So, just to get this straight, it goes: IGNWF -----> IGNWF/JL -----> IGNWF/JL/ML -----> IGNWF/JL -----> SWF/JL -----> SWF ? I'd say organize two different histories: WF and JL, with the ML falling under the JL (They were both feeder leagues, anyways). And generally speaking, keep to things like the major angles going on at the time. I dunno much history yet, but I'm sure people could tell me what was happening in the Main Event and the bigger feuds of 2004, 2003, and even 2002. Perhaps it would be best to flesh out what defines an 'era', as those are the placemarkers. Can someone flesh out some rough golden age and silver age dates, maybe? And does anyone think there were any seriously major events that should be marked down? Not like title changes, but the move from the IGNWF to the SWF probably warrants a small entry, as it's a big move in and out of character. Are there any big events like that?

What I mean by "In-depth Histories" is sort of a "What was the big thing going on during the Summer of 2004? What was the fed like during it's first few months?" I mean, look at the WWE History page, where they carve things up into various eras, where certain people and angles dominated. It doesn't have to be super-in-depth, but points like "During this time, a young up-and-comer known as Toxxic made a splash, quickly dispatching a few veterans for his first cruiserweight title" would be noted. Sort of if all the veterans were thinking back, this is what they'd remember. And what the hell is an "ML"?

I dunno. I think our Hall of Fame deserves an entry all its own. And I finally found it... at least, the one from 2004. Along with a bunch of End of the Year Awards things that might be smart to catalog. And I also found the Top 10 Chat Moments, and I have to say: What the fuck is wrong with you people?!

Well, I think we need to figure out what we want to put in there. If some of the old guys could help out and decide on things like pivotal dates (Like that Wargames link you made), definitive eras, and things like that. Like, for Comic books, there's a Golden Age, a Silver Age, a Bronze Age, and a Modern Age. I'm currently searching for the Hall of Fame right now. Is it on the WF boards or the Community boards? Plus, a history of the SJL would be cool, too, if only because it lasted longer than most regular leagues.

Come on, slappywags. Save it for the ring.

Actually, that's exactly the reason I joined. j/k Those are good points, but I doubt they would mind us doing an extended history and wrestler profiles. I mean, if this guy can write his autobiography, I don't understand why we can't do a moderately deep fed history. I honestly don't think they'll have problems with it unless we start really, REALLY abusing it. I do agree on the wiki thing, because it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to do the disambiguation page correctly. But I think we can start something. Your title histories are great.

Hey, considering I'm new here, and I'm not exceedingly familiar with wrestling, I thought this might be a good way to cover my bases and make sure I don't look like a total tool. But, I'd also like to make this a thread so that other people can ask for people to critique their movesets to find out if anyone doesn't like a particular move, or may think there is a better one that suits them. Note: Constructive criticism only. No Flames, please. I know I can't enforce it, but hopefully the mods will. Thanks!

Replaced with a "Flipping Dropkick".

Edited: July 2nd. Found the real definition of a "Code Red". Preliminary Question: I noticed it at the bottom of the board. Smarks Board Name: Nightwing Wrestlers Name: Blue Leaf (Real Name: Eric Markham) Height: 1.83 Meters / 6’0” Weight: 101.15 Kilograms / 223 pounds Hometown: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada (Announced: “The Great, White North!”) Age: 24 Face/Heel: Face, but read the notes. Stable: None Ring Escort: None Weapon(s): None in a normal match. In a hardcore match, he might pull out a few homegrown weapons/gadgets. Quote: No specific quotes, but groan-inducing puns are always a favorite. Ring Entrance: Outside of Canada, he uses an instrumental piece reminiscent of the stuff coming out of the recent Marvel movies; if you take out your copy of Spider-Man 2 and just watch the intro, that’s about it. In Canada, he uses the Canadian National Anthem, and prefers to walk out with a Canadian Flag. Looks: He has a similar build to most of the younger, more agile comic book characters (think young Peter Parker, Dick Grayson, etc…), but not as ridiculously buff. Kind of thin, but well-toned; looks like was a college athlete, or worked out a lot. Blue eyes, good-looking face, and straight brown hair (combed forwards). His outfit is a full-body suit, blue and white, similar (But not the same; gotta avoid copyright laws…) in design and look to what The Guardian wears, only with blue instead of red. Rather than the full head covering, he just wears a blue domino mask. He also wears white gloves (rather than them just being an extension of the suit) and shin-high blue boots (same reasoning as above). Out of character (For promos or whatever), he wears normal clothing, though he likes CFL Jerseys and Hockey Jerseys (Preferably Toronto) when he goes out. Occasionally wears sunglasses. No dorky voice, no dorky hairdo, etc… just a regular, unspectacular guy. Stats: ¯¯¯¯¯ Strength: Four. Mostly his ‘fearsome’ striking power, but he can hold his own for most people around his size and weight. He has an ‘upper limit’ of around 250 pounds unless there are special conditions in his favor. Speed: Seven. Athletic and acrobatic, he can hang with most cruiserweights in a fast-paced match, but he won’t be able to beat them that way. He also has great reflexes, which allow him to compete in stand-up fights against stronger strikers. Vitality: Five. Being a long-distance runner in college gave him incredible stamina, and his pain threshold is quite high. Charisma: Four. Not the best guy behind the mic, but he’s good enough to get pops. Crowds warm up easily to him, unless they don’t like Canadians, which might make it a bit tougher. Style: A Cruiserweight with strong mix of striking and acrobatics. He prefers to use his striking ability to knock his opponent off-balance, allowing him to move on to more acrobatic moves and such. He took training in judo and jujitsu, but don’t mistake him for an experienced grappler; he only really uses it to avoid protracted grapple contests and keep mat wrestlers from putting him down. He has two particularly glaring flaws: At moment, he is very unskilled at mat-wrestling, and if he’s on the ground, he can get in trouble very quickly. While he’s tough enough to make it to the ropes or smart enough to figure ways out of submissions, he’ll still lose valuable time due to his lack of training. His second flaw is that of his experience: He is wrestler because that’s how he can achieve his dream, not because he wants to be a wrestler. Eric isn’t stupid (note the emphasis), but he hasn’t needed to exert himself enough to learn the subtle nuances of certain styles while in the bush leagues, making him vulnerable to more experienced wrestlers who have dedicated themselves to their profession. Signature moves: 1. “For Great Justice!” – A series of kicks finished off by a leaping roundhouse kick to the temple. Hard to stop once it gets going, and usually starts off a momentum switch. 2. The Maple Leap – Suicide Plancha to the Outside 3. Springboard Dropkick – Used as an entry to the outside or as a whip counter. 4. Flipping Dropkick 5. Victory Roll 6. Hurricanrana 7. Harper Kick – A Super Kick 8. Shining Black 9. Flip-Floppery – Most of the various cruiser moves that I’ve failed to note. Things like Moonsaults, Splashes, and other things that high flyers do without thinking. 10. Uranage Common moves: 1. Enzuigiri 2. Gamengiri 3. Most kicks, punches, palm-strikes, knees, and elbows. 4. Arm Drag 5. Cross Body Block (Used in place of clotheslines) 6. Various Judo Tosses and Takedowns 7. Russian Legsweep (If you want to call it Canadian, go ahead, but I’m not going to be that tool…) 8. DDT 9. Reverse DDT 10. Inverted DDT 11. Drop Toe Hold 12. Neckbreaker 13. Kip-up – Not really a move, but it’s something he does enough that it deserves a note. 14. STO 15. Flying Head Scissors Rare moves: True Blue – A Tornado DDT, often done running off the ropes or (even rarer) springboard. CN Tower-Bomb – A running Powerbomb, only used against Cruiserweights. Don Cherry Drop (DCD) – A Death Valley Driver. Not used often, as it’s hard to integrate into his style. It’s strong enough to be a possible finisher against weaker opponents. Finishers: Canadian Brain Crusher (The CBC) – A jumping Fisherman’s Buster. Done against opponents he can pick up. The Niagara Fall – Leg trap sunset flip powerbomb, better known as "Code Red" by the Amazing Red. Done against opponents he can’t use the CBC on. Notes: As Blue Leaf, Eric is an upstanding citizen. Perhaps not to the level of the “Cyclone Comet”, but he’s interested in standing up to the bad guys, keeping order, and helping out people in need. While he still can be silly (What superhero isn’t at some time?), he’s a bit more serious take on the super hero gimmick. Out of costume, Eric a decent guy, but has a tendency to be a dick when things don’t go the way he’d like them. He’s very dedicated to keeping his ‘character’ popular, and his drive is born more out of a desire for self-gratification and self-fulfillment than actually being a role model and helping people. But outside of career concerns, Eric’s an okay guy. Think of it this way: He doesn’t go out of his way to be a dick, only when something might negatively affect his career. Another big note: He does not consider himself to be Blue Leaf. Blue Leaf is a character to him. Most of the time, this doesn’t come into conflict with the Blue Leaf character; again, he’s really dedicated to keeping Blue Leaf’s image in sterling shape. But, on very, very rare occasions, the act breaks down. If his career is threatened, or someone is making him look really, really bad, he’ll lash out viciously. Please contact me if you do this, preferably before you put it in or rely on it, as I’d like to make it exceedingly rare, but meaningful. Bio: Eric Markham was your average kid who found his idols in the pages of comic books. Batman, Daredevil, the Justice League, and the Avengers, he kept up with just about all of them. Unlike most kids, who give up silly dreams like being astronauts, President, or ever entering into a happy marriage, Eric never gave up on his dream of becoming a super hero. At the age of 15, he finally realized a way to live his dream: Become a wrestler. He worked out, took fighting classes (In particular, he studied Muai Thai along with Judo and Jujitsu), while making his High School CC Team. He abided by his parents request to go to college, attending the University of Toronto on a Track scholarship and earning a B.A. in English and Literature. But as soon as he got out of college he created the character ‘Blue Leaf’ and joined a wrestling school. After that, he began jumping around a few local leagues in Ontario, managing to get by while he showed off his natural talent. Finally, he got noticed by an SWF Talent scout and is now headed to the big leagues.

Actually, I was just trying to think up a generic Luchadore name. Of course, it being generic means that it's widely-used. But I think everyone here seems to think I'm a ringer for someone, so I could always run with it...

Yes, but have you had a Canadian Superhero before?

So if I'm going to fly, it's gonna be the Owen Hart way? Too soon? Edit: Anyways, I think I'm going to post another promo later tonight, which goes a little more in-depth into what my character is. My stats will be up by Thursday, but I want to tweak the 'style', 'notes', and 'bio' parts a little more, if only because I want them to be just right when I get them out. I'm just weird like that. And thanks for the comment, as that makes what I'm doing a bit easier to plan and accomplish.

Well, it said "New here? Read this...", so I figured it was important. And I can go a little less out of Kayfabe, but Kayfabe and non-Kayfabe matters a great deal to my character. So should I assume it's all real, but we are still playing characters, or...?

Actually, Heart of Ice did, as well as Robin's Reckoning. That was a great series.

Abso-fucking-lutely I want to see Riddler again. Read the comics or watch his (admittedly few) episodes on Batman: The Animated Series. The Riddler is a great character. Just Schumacher did him wrong doesn't mean that he's a bad character. I'd argue that he's a fantastic, fantastic villain if used correctly, and I really trust Nolan and Goyer to use him correctly. Same with Mr. Freeze: Just watch the Animated Series to see how great he can be (I believe that episode won an Emmy, didn't it?).

This place is beyond weird.

That's a good point. We haven't even seen the entirety of Batman's first year, so perhaps we are being a little quick to judge. I think the saddest thing about these Batman movies is that we'll probably never seen a 'Robin' in them.