Nightwing

The room is spinning...

Okur is dominating the Lakers right now.

True, but they can still come back in Philly. I fully expect them to go 2-2 in that series. Philly is slowly getting better, and being at home will only help things. In other news, where the hell did this "Young Guns" line on the Blues come from? They are really looking nice.

Wow. One helluva game in Pittsburgh right now.

Please, stop double-posting. Multi-quote.

About as much as watching a 67-15 Dallas team in 2007 get blitzed by Golden State in the first round, mostly because of a coach that knew the blueprint defensively to beat them and followed it to near-perfection. And I am not the one who is being desperate enough to wager name changes and bans without the consent of the opposing party. All you've shown me is the record. I've watched the games. Have you? What did you see to make you think that they are going to go deep in the postseason. Just trying to have a discussion here. That's a miserable example. The Warriors had beaten the Mavs every time they had played. The Jazz lost the season series against the Lakers, including a game that meant something to the Jazz and was meaningless to the Lakers. It's not comparable in the slightest. And I don't think he's desperate, he's just trying to get you to put your money where your mouth is. You've been talking a big game, but not willing to put a fucking user name on the line? Take a look at stipulations and see how they compare to each other. You've done little to nothing to actually justify your position, and you've continually ignored the arguments against it. You seem like the fool, not him. If the Wizards are healthy, and Flip Saunders actually smacked some sense into Arenas so that he actually passes the ball, then I would have the Wizards beating the Cavs in the first round next season, no matter the seed. The problem with that team is they are a bunch of blowhards who only care about beating Cleveland, and no one else. Going 14-68 or whatever is not going to get you into the playoffs. Flip Saunders being able to slap sense into anyone is unrealistic. And you would have the Wizards beating the Cavs in the first round, no matter the seed? They haven't beaten Cleveland teams that were carried by LeBron alone, how do they expect to beat the guy when he has a truly good supporting cast?

I didn't construct any straw men. Do you want me to review your points again? 1) You dismiss the claims that they were desperate and acted in a threatening manner towards him. Perhaps it was becoming more clear that the US wasn't just going to let them get away. Is it that hard to believe someone, anyone, could crack under that pressure? I don't see how it's that unbelievable, as they hadn't 2) The two cases you cite, the men were unarmed, and one was in police custody. The implication you're trying make it pretty obvious, and I'm offended by it. Comparing a man being shot by mistake because they thought he had a weapon is different than a man holding a gun to someone's back being picked off by a sniper. Someone who has a hostage is not a "possible threat", he is a threat, otherwise he doesn't actually have a hostage, does he? 3) You cite a Somali's assertion that they were going to give them up for free, where there had been no indication that they had in any way. There was no mention of talks with Tribal Leaders, which was the catalyst for the Yemani Cargo ship getting off. Up until they were shot, the ransom had remained the same. This claim seems more like revisionism so they can be the victim. Or, as you call the American side of the story, "Bullshit". 4) You put the blame on the US for the escalation, and I attacked this because escalation was inevitable. There's no way that the status quo of "We capture people, they pay us money, we move on" could have continued. It wouldn't be realistic to think that it could. Will this result in more bloodshed? Yes, sadly. But that blame falls on the person holding the hostage, not the person taking aim through a scope. I don't see how those don't directly address the points you were making, and even some of the stuff you were obviously implying.

Sounds fine. Jazz lose in 6, I change his name to "White Boy Karc", Jazz lose in 5, I'll change his name to "Kobe Bryant's White Friend", and if they get swept, I'll put up consideration for a temporary ban of some sort. With the odds as they are, sound fair?

Okay. Is there any consolation for the Lakers actually losing in the first round, or no? I have two names in mind for partial losses and complete losses, but I'm just wondering if that's how you want it.

This is pretty obvious it's just a ploy, and I don't think many people are buying it. It doesn't help them that most of their message and signs are the same stuff we saw during the election, and not actually concentrating on the taxing. I don't think anyone really cares, either; the right is, rather sadly, turning themselves into a regional party.

Detroit vs. Columbus, Game 1 The Good - Osgood, obviously. He was very good, and not just because of the defense in front of him. He made some key big saves and really made a statement tonight. His stickhandling was great as well, and he was a real good help out there. - The effort. This was a full game effort, and it's very reassuring after watching a lackluster season. Even when they got that lead, they were fighting for pucks and putting shots on the net. They were dangerous all night, despite the score. - The scoring. 3rd and 4th line scoring is a great thing to have. They might be able to slow the first two lines, but the young talent came through in a big way. - Physicality. I think they really set the tone when it came to big hits and fighting for things. You had everyone throwing hits, and they weren't frightened when Columbus tried to respond. The Bad - Defensive lapses. Thank God this is only Columbus, and not Chicago or San Jose, who have a lot more talent upfront. Osgood was able to save 'em a few times, but they need to tighten things up like last year. - Bad penalties. You can blame the refs for a penalty or two, but this needs to change now. Columbus has the worst power play in the league, so it'll only get harder from here. The Kill was very, very good, but that first period can't be repeated against another team, or they'll almost certainly be digging themselves out of a two-goal hole. Overall Again, a very reassuring win. This game against Columbus didn't feel like the 1st game against Nashville last year, in which the Wings really felt like they got a bit lucky for the win. They looked a lot more dominant and confident in their game. Hopefully they can keep up the momentum and get through this series quick.

A name change could be arranged, if someone else wants to take the bet. Any takers?

I double-fucking-dare them to try it.

I want proof that they were going to release him without ransom. I find that a lot harder to believe than the Somalis becoming desperate, because they may have realized that the US wasn't just going to let them go. As you said, they're there for the ransom; why fuck with the Americans if you're just going to let him go for free? Secondly, don't even mention Grant or Stansbury in the same sentence with the Somalis. It's not comparable by a longshot. Holding a hostage in a boat being towed by a destroyer is not the same as being killed while in police custody. You need to look past your own admitted bias and look at the situation realistically. And it's naive to think that this could somehow continue without such action occurring. Regardless of what you call them, they are still committing piracy. In the end, you have to make it unprofitable for them to do so. Escalation was going to occur to start making it riskier to pirate ships, regardless of what the pirates were doing because they were still holding people hostage for money. Perhaps you should put the blame on the person who took the person hostage, which brought it to this in the first place?

Settle down, you two. Cleveland in 5. Atlanta in 7. Orlando in 4. Boston in 6. Lakers in 5. Portland in 5. San Antonio in 6. New Orleans in 6.

I intensely disagree with the concept that they are "Coast Guard" or "Marines". I'll accept "Privateers" with reservations, but there's just too many problems with calling yourself some sort of military force while saying "We're just poor fishermen". You can't have it both ways.

Very competitive game, and I wished I could have watched it. Got stuck with Philly-Pittsburgh, which got less exciting as the periods passed. Vancouver-St. Louis was pretty good, though. That'll be a good series to watch.

The bigger problem is explaining how negotiation does anything to solve the problem at all. Sure, it might keep things a bit safer for crews who get captured, but it does absolutely nothing to actually stop the problem. All you're doing is help sustain the system that allows the problem to exist. This sort of action was going to be necessary sooner or later if we were to actually attempt to solve the problem. You need to make these people realize that the US will not just let you take their ships. I disagree. You can sympathize with the situation while condemning the actions of the pirates. And I was specifically attempting to point out how this really wasn't "Robin Hood" vigilantism, since they were trying to hold a ship carrying food to Somalia hostage for millions of dollars.

I disagree on the former and agree on the latter. I don't understand how you can be angry at him when it was obviously set up for the best safety of the American captain; he's the US President, and his concern is for the US national that is being held hostage. From everything I've read so far, I think they were justified in making the move they did. The Somalis, whether you call them pirates or privateers, were engaged in illegal activities to make money. Hell, they had even attacked a freighter carrying aid to Somalia from the US; that's not particularly "Robin Hood"-ish. While it might hurt in the short-term, in the long-term it will hurt more if we don't make it unprofitable to be taking these ships hostage. We can improve things in Somalia, but not to the point where it's better than getting million-dollar ransoms. This isn't to say that's the only solution; there needs to be significant improvement and aid from the international community on the ground towards improving the situation to give them something to come back to. Attacking places will not accomplish that, and will only make people more bitter. A two-pronged strategy of improving things on the ground while making it harder to attack ships seems the most prudent.

"A broken clock is right twice a day" seems to be an appropriate phrase here.

How is it a low blow? I did not present the statement as fact; I wondered. To wonder is to be curious about something uncertain. I was uncertain about whether Real TSMers would return to making comments such as "torpedo their asses"[1] and "blow them up"[2] since they knew that I would not see their comments. I am now satisfied because you have provided me with the answer that they have not made such comments. Are you always this passive-aggressive? You're implying that apparently everything turned to jingoistic racism, which is hardly the case. And taking Agent and Dobbs as the real voice of the CE folder anywhere is the definition of taking things out of context. Agent went more in depth in discussion later in the thread when challenged, and smitty was more than enough to push Dobbs away. Again, I know a few of them asked, but it's not like they have power over the all other guys. If you like, I'll vouch for you, too. But get over the bitterness; you'll eventually get in, but the misunderstandings are still fresh in mind. Give it time.

I wonder if The Real TSM's discussion on this issue is similarly enlightened. Actually, they aren't talking about it at all. Way to low blow your friends over there.

It was a good episode, but the individual jokes were pretty funny. For some reason, the overall product didn't feel as funny as most of the jokes were.

Can you explain the... bad part, Jingus? I'm not at all surprised, but I'm wondering what specifically went wrong there?

Well, it's trying to do too much. I'll give Singer this; his movies were not mind-blowing, but they were pretty solid and never attempted to do too much. The Last Stand was trying to combine a half dozen different important storylines, and never gave any of them the time and effort they truly needed. The Wolverine movie seems to be the same way (I haven't watched the bootleg, but I can tell from the trailers); get as many references in, but don't worry about how you include them. It's all quite frustrating. @Anakin: Post in spoiler-tags what it was. I'm interested, but not interested enough to download and sit through the entire movie for it.