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Posts posted by CheesalaIsGood

  1. How could anyone - idealogues aside - defend these last couple of articles from Fox News? It seems as if they're no longer even attempting to hide behind that "Fair & Balanced" farce of a slogan.


    Usual leftie-rightie strategy. "Oh yeah? Well <insert opponent> did this, and it was worse!!!"


    That's basically it, the same stock answer for the left and right, for every rotten thing that happens.


    Their entire moral outlook is dictated by what the opposition does. Lie, cheat, steal, but as long as you're not quite as bad as the other guys, you're in the moral rightness. It's how the 'bush is hitler' folks defend the stuff they do. its how people like a mike sc defend the right.


    wash rinse repeat.


    The majority of america wipes their ass with all that though, which is why voter turnout and attentiveness to politics has dipped so much. It'll rise a little bit this election but not that much. People complain and bitch about it, but they're part of the reason its so low. i'm sure i'm a part of that too. :firing: :cheers:

    Well said. Cheers for seeing though the unmitigated bullshit machine.

  2. http://www.infocusmag.com/04october/puppetryuncut.htm





    Here is a really cool interview with Trey Parker and Matt Stone about the new Team America. After reading this I SO am seeing this flick.






    Puppetry of the Meanest (uncut)


    ‘South Park’ creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone are very, very proud of their new movie, ‘Team America: World Police.’


    They just aren’t having any fun making it.


    by M.E. Russell


    Click here for the print version.


    Here’s “South Park” mastermind Trey Parker, on his way to the editing room in late August: “It’s brutal. It’s [expletive deleted] brutal.”


    Here’s “South Park” co-mastermind Matt Stone, a few minutes later: “I want my life back so bad.”


    The notoriously frank Parker and Stone are famous for eschewing bland movie-PR pronouncements, but why are they so tired?


    In a word: puppets.


    The duo’s new feature, “Team America: World Police” depicts an elite counterterrorism squad facing off against Kim Jong-il and a conspiracy of high-profile Hollywood liberals, including Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin and George Clooney. It has all the trappings of a Jerry Bruckheimer action film – right down to its Aerosmith-style power ballad (albeit an Aerosmith-style power ballad with a decidedly off-color title). What makes this concept unusually difficult to execute, though, is that the movie is performed exclusively by marionettes.


    That’s right, marionettes – puppets on strings – in a massively complicated homage to Gerry Anderson’s camp-classic 1960s TV series “Thunderbirds” (as distinct from this summer’s little-seen live-action remake). This means Parker and Stone have to maintain “South Park” levels of satire and comic timing in shots so technically complex that Parker says they “literally get like seven or eight shots a day. We’re not getting anything that’s not going in the movie, basically.”


    They were still shooting in August. The movie had to be edited and in the can by the end of September. Here’s what Trey and Matt had to say in August about “Team America,” “South Park” and the glories of the cheesy musical. Warning: Strong talk abounds.


    PART I:




    IN FOCUS: So I hear you guys are on triple shifts right now.

    TREY PARKER: It’s three units at the same time — and of course [they’re shooting] three completely different parts of the movie. I can see why people don’t multi-task. It’s a bad idea.


    MATT STONE: Yeah. We go from 7 to 8 or so, every day — and a lot of times, we have three, four or five cameras running at any time on the set, trying to get the stuff. I said that to my mom the other day: I’ve never worked this hard in my life.


    At the same time, I’m really, really glad we have this horrible deadline — because it’s a finite amount of time. We have to have the movie done by the end of September. If I was working this hard and I didn’t know the movie was coming out, it would bum me out.


    And you could argue that it removes any self-doubt filters.

    MATT: Yeah. I’d say most things are overproduced. At the same time, even though it feels like this mad rush, we let the concept gestate for the better part of two-and-a-half years. But once you get the s*** on film, just get it out as soon as you can. That’s kind of our motto.


    When you pitched “Team America,” were there Paramount executives who looked at you like you were on mescaline?

    TREY: Yeah. I mean, they did not see any dollar signs with an R-rated puppet movie. [laughs] You know, they were basically like, “Well, [scott] Rudin says it’s a good idea, so we’ll give you the minimum amount of money we have to give to make a movie.” [laughs]


    MATT: We actually pitched “Team America” to Rudin first — and I don’t know if we would have gotten it made without his clout. And, you know, I mean, Rudin is Rudin — he’s a very complex man — but one thing he does have is pretty incredible taste in projects. He just gets things in a way that, a lot of times, other [executives] just don’t.


    When we were doing the “South Park” movie, Rudin really did get “South Park.” And the thing he got was: We wanted to tell a really big, good story. Everyone else at that time was just, you know, “Get Cartman on the screen, 90 feet tall, have him fart and walk around. It’s a gold mine, guys! Just get it out!” And we were so interested in doing more — and he was the only guy who really got it.


    TREY: But as soon as they started seeing [“Team America”] dailies…. They’re pretty excited now.


    MATT: Now everyone at the studio’s f***ing totally loving it, and the press that’s come to the set has fallen head-over-heels. But when we first pitched this movie, it was like, “What the f*** do you wanna do?” And then, even after the first week of film, it was like, “Well, it’s cool-looking, but….” But after the second week of filming, when Trey and I started cutting scenes together and figuring out what the movie was, people starting jumping on board. But it was really people going, “Oh, we trust Scott, Matt and Trey — because this is too f***in’ weird.”


    What was the non-“South Park” project you guys were contemplating before you stumbled onto the 1960s-TV “Thunderbirds”?

    TREY: There was something I’d written for Rudin way early on, when I’d first come to town, before “South Park” — it was this almost fairy-tale kind of story that took place in the Colorado Rockies. We were sort of kicking that around again, and kind of sitting there going, “Man, I don’t know if I really want to make another movie.” It was so great working in animation and not dealing with actors, and being able to sort of just do whatever you want in animation — order up the Chinese Army if you want.


    But then this idea struck us in the head and we kind of went with it. And now we kind of halfway regret it. But it looks good. [laughs]


    Rumor has it, Trey, that you didn’t even discover “Thunderbirds” until very recently.

    TREY: When I saw it, I was definitely, like, “I remember this.” And Matt was the same way: We both kind of remembered it, but we weren’t fans. And we realized a lot of our friends were in the same boat. And then once we started watching them, we realized the reason was: They couldn’t even hold our interest when we were kids. They’re so expository and slow — just dialogue and dialogue and dialogue, and it took itself really seriously.


    And now I understand why, of course: It’s easy to have a puppet sit there and talk. [laughs] At first, we were like, “Why didn’t he do so much more?” And now we’re like, “Oh. That’s why.”


    Has working on “Team America” given you new respect for Gerry Anderson?

    TREY: Absolutely. I mean, actually, it doesn’t give me any respect for him — it makes me think he’s absolutely insane.


    How you could do this and do it again, I do not understand. He did it for years and years and years — and I don’t understand how. I mean, you could threaten to kill my family and I would not make another puppet movie. If my mother would die if I would not make another puppet movie, she’d be dead. I’m totally serious.


    MATT: Music that sounds effortless? Sometimes it’s really not. And I think some people will see this film and think, “Wow! That looks really easy.” When people come visit the set, they see what it takes to do it. And then you look at Gerry Anderson and you think, “Man, he did this for how many episodes?” I mean, the [“Thunderbirds”] episodes are really simplistic, movement-wise, but some of the stuff they did is pretty amazing, technically. It’s kind of too bad that he didn’t have better stories and scripts and characters, because it’s a pretty amazing look. It’s definitely what inspired the look of this film.


    But honestly, I don’t know what the hell’s wrong with that guy. I mean, we’re in, so we have to finish this f***in’ thing, but I hate it. I do. I hate it.


    I remember that you guys were planning, before Sept. 11, to make a movie called, if memory serves, “George W. Bush and the Secret of the Glass Tiger”….

    MATT: Hey, that’s right. Yeah.


    It was going to be an Indiana Jones-style adventure —

    MATT: Yeah, I forgot about that. He was going to cruise around. It was going to completely ignore the fact that he was the President or a guy from Texas — anything real about him — and just make him an action hero. That was funny.


    TREY: At the time, we were doing “That’s My Bush!” And we just loved the cast and really loved the show. And it got put to us by Comedy Central: “Guys, we can’t afford to do ‘That’s My Bush!’ and ‘South Park,’ so you’ve gotta pick one.”


    So we were like, “How can we do both?” And we started thinking, “Let’s do a ‘That’s My Bush!’ movie.” [On TV,] “That’s My Bush!” was making fun of sitcoms — so we’ll do it completely different, where we’re doing an action movie, still starring Tim [bottoms] as George Bush. That’s still a pretty sweet idea. But it was ahead of its time, actually.


    How many ideas from that have been subsumed into “Team America”?

    TREY: I don’t know. Probably in the back of our minds, a lot of them.


    MATT: I think that “Team America” kind of became its own thing. But that’s a really good idea for a movie. We should do that.


    Would “That’s My Bush!” have proven more successful had it starred marionettes?

    MATT: No — that would have failed, because we wouldn’t have gotten past two episodes on that.


    I have to ask you about the recent Drudge Report item, where an anonymous “White House official” charged that “Team America” was trivializing the war on Terror: Why does the White House respond to a teaser trailer for a movie starring puppets, but not to “Fahrenheit 9/11”?

    MATT: Well, first of all, I think “Fahrenheit 9/11” was … well, it was a different kind of movie. I just wonder how real that “news” really was. That’s all I’m gonna say.


    I mean, “an anonymous White House staffer”? Drudge said “a senior Bush administration official,” and when we got on the radio with him, it was “a junior staffer.” What is it — junior or senior? What are we talking about here? Who knows? It might have been the janitor.


    It was free publicity, so it was fun for us.


    TREY: Yeah, exactly. It’s funny when someone responds with, “Oh, well they think this is funny?” No, we just think that everything’s funny. We think that “funny” is a great thing and “funny” is a great way to think about things and deal with things.


    People who don’t have great senses of humor think that comedy is that you just think something’s trite and stupid and you don’t care about it. [They think] if you’re laughing, it’s because what you think you’re laughing at is stupid — because that’s about as far as their sense of humor goes. People don’t realize that it can be something a lot deeper than that.


    Oh, sure. One of the most interesting things about “South Park” is that the right and the left sort of claim it as their own.

    TREY: Absolutely.


    I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but there have been essays written about the concept of the “South Park Republican.”

    TREY: Yeah, we have seen that. What we’re sick of — and it’s getting even worse — is: You either like Michael Moore or you wanna f***in’ go overseas and shoot Iraqis. There can’t be a middle ground. Basically, if you think Michael Moore’s full of s***, then you are a super-Christian right-wing whatever. And we’re both just pretty middle-ground guys. We find just as many things to rip on on the left as we do on the right. People on the far left and the far right are the same exact person to us. [laughs]


    Are there any good guys in Team America?

    TREY: Yeah, they’re all good guys. That’s sort of the misconception. This isn’t about “them” the government and “them” the terrorists. It’s about “us,” the people who have to sit here and say, “F*** — everyone kind of hates us right now. How do I feel about that?”


    Really, all the Team America members are people you’re supposed to like; they’re kind of mess-ups and they get it wrong sometimes, but gosh-darn it, they’re tryin’. [laughs]


    Just like everything we do — and the “South Park” movie was this way, too — [our scripts] always start off being about 120 pages of politics and basically expository crap. And then you whittle it down and whittle it down, and you start to look at stuff, and then you realize, “Okay, the funniest stuff is watching a puppet falling out of a car — and that’s what the movie’s really about.” [laughs] You weed it out and let the politics take a back seat. Because I know I’m sick of politics. It’s more about f***in’ up puppets.


    Who do you think wants you to shut up the most: the right or the left? Putting it another way: Would Janeane Garofalo or Sean Hannity tell you to shut your yap faster?

    TREY: Janeane Garofalo wouldn’t do that because she’d know it would be hypocritical. The left never really tells you to shut up. The right just likes to think the left is stupid and the left just likes to think the right is evil. [laughs]


    Any thoughts on the fact that you may have ended up making a more reverent homage to “Thunderbirds” than Jonathan Frakes did?

    MATT: Oh, no — we definitely did.


    TREY: I sure hope so. God. I mean, if you aren’t using puppets, then you ain’t got nothin’. They sure didn’t have a story.


    MATT: I would have said this before it opened so terribly, but what a terrible miscalculation. What an awful thing to do with that franchise. The only good thing about “Thunderbirds” was the artistry of the puppets and the look — it’s really what made it “Thunderbirds.” The concept and the characters and the stories are pretty mediocre — but what’s made it last is the time and care that the people who did that show put into the marionettes. I mean, they really formed an entirely new niche of filmmaking — and f***in’ Universal or some idiot somewhere, some exec, decides it has to be a “Spy Kids.” That’s just Hollywood in a nutshell.


    TREY: I’m pretty confident that we can beat “Thunderbirds”’ first weekend out. All we have to do is make 2 million bucks and we’ve won. For about half the price, too. [laughs]


    Now, you’d originally discussed doing an all-puppet version of a major Hollywood script like “The Day After Tomorrow.”

    TREY: Yeah. We thought “Day After Tomorrow” would be great with puppets.


    Now that the summer has worn on, are there any other movies that deserved the all-puppet treatment?

    TREY: I think you could take any Bruckheimer movie and do it with puppets, and it would be screamingly funny.


    MATT: The whole movie has that kind of feel. We ask this question about four times a day on the set: “What Would Jerry do?” We’re gonna get bracelets made — like the “What Would Jesus Do?” bracelets. Because we’d ask, “What would Jerry Bruckheimer do?” when we were trying to figure something out. “Jerry would put this kind of song here,” or “Jerry would do this kind of move here.” “This is the way he would introduce the team base.”


    How important is it to get this movie in theatres before the November elections?

    TREY: It actually has nothing to do with the election. In fact, it was actually supposed to come out sooner — and then it just took so goddamn long. I don’t think anyone will be coming out of this movie going, “Oh! I think I’ll be voting for so-and-so!” At all. It really is just about: We have to be back at “South Park” on Oct. 20 — and so the 15th was about as far as we could push the movie. [laughs]


    Are you turning this around in such a short window because the deal came together so late?

    TREY: Yes — and because everything just took a lot longer than we thought.


    MATT: We got about five or six shots today on second unit and we were like, “Whoa! That was a pretty good day!” Our third unit got two that they’d set up last night and three or four shots today…. And there are between 1,500 and 2,000 shots in a normal film, I think.


    It’s really hard to get into a creative groove, because you do one little piece, and then three hours later, you do another little piece, and then later you do another little piece that’s four weeks later — and you just don’t get into a normal groove of “Let’s do a scene! Let’s get crazy!”


    The nightly edit sessions would help with that, I’d imagine.

    MATT: Even if this movie wasn’t coming out until next year, we’d edit at night. After the first week of filming, we edited all weekend — and we completely changed the script. Now, not all the plot elements, not all the characters — but we completely changed the tone of the script after the first week of shooting. Because we knew the film had to be kind of serious in tone to be funny, because it’s puppets — but we didn’t even know how serious it had to be. And it wasn’t one of those things where you could go shoot a bunch of film for 12 weeks and start editing, because we would have ended up with a s***ty film. Especially when you’re doing something like this, in a new medium.


    I don’t understand how anyone could do a film and not want to edit while they’re doing it — because that’s when you know what you’re getting. Shooting, or animating, editing, songwriting, voicing — you do it all at once. I don’t understand how people go, “First we’ll do this, and then we’ll do that, and then we’ll edit, and then we’ll be done!” Because it just doesn’t work that way.


    A film emerges very organically from the process.

    MATT: [kind of sarcastically] That’s a good euphemism for “controlled chaos.”


    George Clooney, one of the “limousine liberals” being mocked in the movie, loves you guys — he even played a gay dog on an early episode.

    TREY: Yeah. We’re, like, light friends with George. We’ve hung out with George. But the thing is, he was on that list, man — he was on that MoveOn.org. So we weren’t gonna be hypocritical and be, like, “Well, let’s not pick on George. He’s our friend.” We’re like, “Nope — f*** you, George. You went on the news shows, too, and talked about Iraq like you knew what was going on. We’re taking you down, buddy.”


    Did you talk to him before you did it?

    TREY: Oh, no. I don’t know if he even knows right now.


    Do you fear that Tim Robbins is gonna sucker-punch you at the Oscars?

    TREY: Oh, I’ll kick his f***in’ ass. Are you kidding?


    PART II:


    and ‘SOUTH PARK’


    I interviewed Sam Mendes a year or two ago —and he declared “South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut” “the greatest movie musical of the past 20 years.”

    MATT: Wow. That’s great.


    He called the movie “sophisticated” and went on to say, and I quote: “That pastiche of ‘Les Miz’ is one of the great pastiches ever written in the musical theater — and anyone who has any mixed feelings about that show is going to be rolling in the aisles.”

    MATT: [laughs] Well, you can’t pastiche unless you’re a huge fan — and Trey is a huge fan of “Les Miz.” It’s funny, because everyone thought we were brilliantly satirizing musicals — and in some ways, we were satirizing the Disney musical formula — but the truth is, Trey loves musicals so much.


    TREY: I love cheesy musicals — the more cheese, the better. I mean, I’ve seen “Les Miz” tons and tons of times; I once went, in London, by myself, and just sat there and cried. [laughs] I’m that cheesy.


    The worse the idea, the better. Remember “Titanic: The Musical” a few years ago? That was great. Right before the curtain went down in Act One, they had a little tiny model Titanic that runs into an iceberg. [laughs] It sort of inspired this movie.


    I grew up in the mountains, away from everything, and one of the only things we had to do was [to go watch] the Evergreen Players — which was basically this group of, you know, the teacher and the gas-man…. Basically, it was “Waiting for Guffman.” But the highlight, every three months, was going to that 35-person theater to see their new play. That was when I fell in love with musicals. And then I saw the big-stage versions — and I didn’t like them as much.


    MATT: I can’t say I’m a lover of musicals like Trey, but I’m definitely an appreciator of musicals. What I appreciate about them is that I’m all about idea and concept — and musicals are so dense. You can pack so much into them plot-wise and emotion-wise; there’s just an immediate depth about them that I really like. I don’t think I would have appreciated that without making a few, if that makes any sense.


    The great thing about your song parodies is that they’re not just Weird Al-style mockings, but rather sophisticated parodies of entire genres and vocal styles.

    TREY: We love writing a good song. In “South Park,” we’ll spend like 10 minutes on the story and two hours on the song. [laughs]


    How much of that is you and how much of that is Marc Shaiman?

    TREY: For the [“South Park”] movie, I would do sort of what I did for the show: I can really only play piano, so I’d sit down and do everything on piano, and just have a piano and vocal track, and then give it to Marc: “Here’s the song — here’s the verse and chorus, and here’s all the chords.” And he would just Broadway everything up.


    Now, this is probably a question you guys get asked all the time, but why haven’t you made a “South Park 2”?

    MATT: You know, just no burning desire to, I guess. Trey and I don’t have a very well-managed career or very well-architected career or whatever you want to call it — we just do what we want. And we haven’t really wanted to do another “South Park” movie. Our heads live in South Park most of the year, doing the show, and the first “South Park” movie almost killed us, emotionally and physically — and we took a year off from movies, and we started doing this movie.


    We get to do whatever we want on the show, and that scratch gets itched. I think most sequels suck, so unless we could come up with a really great idea, we would never do it. It would not be motivated by “We must do a ‘South Park 2’”; it would be motivated by, “I’ve got a great idea for a movie.” We live enough in that world. We make enough money off of that world. And we’re really proud of that first movie, and we don’t want to f*** it up with a Part 2, like they do with most franchises.


    Trey, you’ve been writing and directing — solo — all the South Park episodes the last few seasons. Do you hope to delegate any of those duties at some point?

    TREY: I don’t know if I could. Maybe the show would be better if I did [laughs].


    We’re sort of going through the same thing on this movie: For some reason, the process for us has to be chaotic and painful. At the end of a “South Park” run, we’re about to die. We’re worked to death. It’s like we’re a sponge and there’s nothing left. And that’s exactly how I feel on this movie right now. For some reason, that’s the way it works for us. It sucks, but that’s the way it is.


    When we do “South Park,” we do it week-to-week — so the episode that airs Wednesday, we start writing the Thursday before. That’s how you have to do satire, because you have to be right with what’s going on.


    I was going to ask you about “South Park”’s production schedule.

    TREY: We have a retreat before the season starts and we think up funny s***. But then we have nothing. A show airs, and the next morning we get together and say, “Okay, which show would we want to do this week?” Or we think of a new one, which is usually what happens, and then we start writing.


    Are you awake for days at a time to make that happen?

    TREY: Yes. And then we’re up all night, and everything. It’s brutal. But again, that’s the process, for some reason.


    MATT: Mm-hm. We wake up on a Thursday morning, come into the office at like 9:30, we sit down around the writer’s table with donuts and we say, “All right, what should next week’s be about?” And that’s literally the one that’s on in six days. We start coming up with stuff, we put scenes into production, and we just go.


    Do you guys take weekends off during the “South Park” season?

    MATT: No. We work Thursday morning until Wednesday morning, basically. We have one day off. We start Thursday, and the hours get longer and longer and longer until we work a 24-hour day on Tuesday in order to get the show done by Wednesday.


    So you spend Wednesday in a fetal ball, basically.

    MATT: Yeah.


    What’s the latest you can have an episode in and still have it cablecast at 10 p.m. Wednesday?

    MATT: Well, it’s really 7:00 Pacific time to make it on the East Coast. I think they get it around 2 p.m. their time. I don’t know — 12, 2, something like that.


    I presume computers are a lot of the reason you can turn these around so fast. Did you go to computer animation right away when you started the show?

    TREY: Yeah. We knew right after the pilot that it was going to be impossible [otherwise]: It took us three months to do the pilot using construction-paper cutouts. We’d be making a show a year, basically.


    I think [computer animation] makes it a better show — because Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, we can sit there and completely change it, and decide something isn’t working, and go a whole other route — and put in things that happened the day before. And that’s what makes it exciting and fun for us.


    “South Park” episodes seem to become funnier (i.e., more random and absurd) when they’re done quickly, or toward the end of the season.

    TREY: Yeah. It’s because you have to get to that point where you stop thinking about it and you just do it. That’s why the first episodes in a “South Park” run are consistently the hardest, and the most sort of scrambled and jumbled — just because we have two-and-a-half weeks to do it. The shows where we come up with an idea on Thursday and we go, “Sweet! Let’s do it!” end up being our best shows.


    What’s the funniest thing you’ve ever put in a South Park episode?

    MATT: The funniest thing? Oh, I don’t know. S***, man. I don’t remember any “South Park” episodes. That’s part of doing an episode a week. If you asked me what we just did on a Friday, and it aired on a Wednesday, a lot of times I can’t answer you. You go through this weird process where you finish an episode and you purge it from your mind.


    Between “Orgazmo” and the “South Park” Mormon episode, do you fear layovers in Utah?

    MATT: No. Mormons love us. Not all Mormons, but Mormons love it. They’re like Canadians — they just like being paid attention to.


    I am fascinated by Mormonism, and I think we’ll probably end up doing a movie or something about Mormonism, because it’s just too good. It’s too funny.

  3. Ah, a blithering putz thinks Bush is a fucking moron. Delicious is the irony.


    Since you think you are qualified to make such an observation is twice as ironic. Shut up.

    Ooooh, bringing your "A" game, are ye? Why not call me "mean", too? Oh wait, that would involve you doing something original, and God knows, we can't have you doing that.

    You got nothing. All you do is call people idoits and pretend you offer substance. Half-assed bullshit artist. Weak Mike, just plain weak.

    Am I ruining your gimmick or something?

    At this point I hope John Kerry steals the election by rigging florida, just to show you the MEANING of irony.

    Because illegality is FUN!


    Well, you are certainly competing with INXS and BoyScout as least useful person.


    With a few more posts containing your razor-sharp wit and intense ability to make a point, you'll overtake both of them.

    Gimmick? WTF are you talking about? YOU have the nerve to critique anyone on this board for being useful when 2/3 of your post are ONLY:



    Someone: says something.


    Mike: Calls them an stupid or idiotic or just crys bullshit without backing it up.



    Rinse, repeat.


    Yes, illegality IS fun. More so considering how much crying you do on this board, you'd finally have something WORTH crying about.



    You wanna cry about the NYT, or anybody else with being less than credible sources without ever acknowledging that there are plenty on your side of the spectrum that slant things just as much if not more. You can't cry for objectivity when you display none yourself.


    Useful? I don't speak for INXS or Boyscout as I do not know either guy. If you want to lump me in with some posters here for whatever reason feel free. Its just more Rinse, repeat from "USEFUL" messageboard poster A MikeSC. Could your arms be any shorter?

  4. Ah, a blithering putz thinks Bush is a fucking moron. Delicious is the irony.


    Since you think you are qualified to make such an observation is twice as ironic. Shut up.



    You got nothing. All you do is call people idoits and pretend you offer substance. Half-assed bullshit artist. Weak Mike, just plain weak.


    At this point I hope John Kerry steals the election by rigging florida, just to show you the MEANING of irony.



    I hope that tastes good to you too.

  5. Hey, if the news desks of every network and cable news channel is there only to serve advertisers than you can't ever place your hopes of there ever being anything resembling objectivity. I wonder how NBC might cover a nulcear disaster. Actually, I don't know how many times I've seen ads, pretending to be "news stories" over the years about all the neato keen weapons they (General Electric) have been developing.



    If you want answers than just pick which story feel best to you and go with it. If you have the conviction. Just don't count on anything being the truth.

  6. No way Jarrett should be that high. Sorry, NWA champ or not the guy sucks. Watched TNAs Best of the Heavyweights this week, and half tha matches were Doule Js and gawd did they blow

    Hell, the best match of the comp was Abyss vs. SABU!!! COME ON!! Eat me Jarrett.

  7. Rob, any Bush mocking/un-spinning is like crack cocaine to Mike. He can't resist logging in and sniffing it all up.


    Also, I've noticed that USA Today always seems to be a little more likely to jump on any mistakes or incidents Kerry does, while mostly ignoring Bush's constant idiocies.

    And apparently anything I say is crack cocaine for you.


    Haha! I know you are but what am I? Weak dude, weak.

  8. This is a riot!


    Mike, Bush did poorly. He looked LOST at so many points during the debate (I've got at least 6) and almost broke down at one point when trying to explain his exit strategy of Iraq. Kerry didn't give a point-by-point assessment of how he was going to do it, but he at least appeared to have a focused, directed approach to handling the situation. Bush did not and he's the fucking president.


    All of your points are meaningless Mike, do you want to know why? BECAUSE BUSH DIDN'T MAKE THEM. This is the concept of a debate. It was Bush vs. Kerry, not Kerry vs. Mike, and certainly not Kerry vs. Mike with-plenty-of-time-to-come-up-with-answers-and-counter-points-and-explain-them. In this context. In this debate. Kerry blew Bush out of the water. Whatever result that has on the election is for time to decide, but as of right now, he looked good and Bush looked bad. Get this around your head, thinking about it, maybe sleep on it, and then come back and chat.

    Well said. Kudos!

  9. Did Bush manage to keep Kerry from gaining any ground? Kerry probably didn't get as much as he expected as much as Bush lost more ground than he wanted.




    Most of the coverage has hit the nail on the head about how this debate went. Bush will likey never insire me, but tonight neither did Kerry, which is what his main problem is. Winning over lefties like myself.

  10. Here is some light news to hopefully amuse.









    Dude! Surfer catches whale of a ride

    'I just felt, wow, this huge noise and bump'


    Thursday, September 30, 2004 Posted: 1200 GMT (2000 HKT)





    Or, visit Popular Alerts for suggestions.

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    We were all screaming, 'Oh my God!'

    -- Mona Ferner, witness


    SAN CLEMENTE, California (AP) -- A surfer says the swell he was riding on a recent trip turned out to be more than just a wave -- it was a whale.


    Spyros Vamvas, a 60-year-old San Clemente therapist, felt the ocean swirl under him and was lifted up by the giant mammal.


    "All of a sudden I just felt, wow, this huge noise and bump," said Vamvas, "and it lifted my board up. I'm looking down, and there's just swirling water and I see barnacles on the back of the whale. I'm used to dolphins. This was different. It was huge."


    Witnesses at Lasuen Beach on Monday morning began yelling.


    "We were all screaming, 'Oh my God!"' said Mona Ferner, who was playing volleyball with her sister when she spied the whale.


    Vamvas had no idea how big the whale was. Others on the beach guessed between 15 feet to 30 feet long, meaning the whale was likely a juvenile.


    Vamvas, who has been surfing since he was 12, said the whale lifted him gently. "I never changed position on my board," he said.


    Those who saw the incident said that after setting Vamvas back onto the water, the whale turned and headed out toward the open sea.


    "It looked like the whale was obviously spooked," said Marine Safety Capt. Bill Humphreys, one of several lifeguards on the beach.


    The sight of the whale scared a number of surfers out of the water, Humphreys said. Vamvas was the only one left in the surf line as the whale approached. Witnesses said he was looking out to sea in search of a wave and didn't appear to see the animal heading his way.


    Vamvas said that his 6-foot, 10-inch surfboard wasn't damaged, though he did pinch the middle finger of his left hand between the whale and his surfboard.





    Damn, thats awesome. I gotta swim with some dolphins one of these days. Has anybody here ever done that?

  11. http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_10192.shtml




    Go there to read an old post by Keller about what he thought would be the ultimate Mania card.



    edit: Or just read my paste here. :P



    This Week with Wade Keller feature editorial

    By Wade Keller, Torch editor

    Original Headline: WrestleMania 20 Dream Card: All Wrestlers in Their Primes

    Originally Published: October 3, 2003

    Torch Newsletter #778


    If WrestleMania XX were to somehow able to bring back any WWE wrestler of the WrestleMania years from their prime, what would be the ultimate dream card that could be created? I got to thinking about it when Kurt Angle and Bret Hart talked about wrestling each other at the big show next March. That match can't take place because Bret isn't physically able to wrestle due to the stroke he suffered. But it would be one of my dream matches were the two in their prime.


    Bret Hart vs. Kurt Angle: In fact, I'd say this would be my main event, maybe the match I'd most look forward to. I think if there is anyone who could have brought out the best in Bret in his prime, it would have been Kurt Angle in his prime, which despite his physical ailments happens to be right now. Bret Hart's top rival during his actual WWF career was someone he didn't particularly care for in real life, Shawn Michaels. They had some great matches, but Bret vs. Angle would have eclipsed their battles had Angle and Bret been contemporaries of each other. Angle's style plays more to Bret's strengths and would better hide Bret's weaknesses. Perhaps the two best all-around main event workers of the WrestleMania years, this would be a classic main event.


    Hulk Hogan vs. Steve Austin: The two biggest draws of the past 20 years never wrestled at WrestleMania. Hogan was too busy wrestling Rock and Vince McMahon on his two recent WrestleMania appearances while Austin was doing his thing against Scott Hall and The Rock. It's a shame that these two never wrestled just because, like Hogan vs. Flair and like Austin vs. Rock, pro wrestling just doesn't seem complete without it having taken place. If it does take place in the future, it will be so far past both wrestlers' primes, it just won't have the same aura that it would have two or three years ago when Austin was peaking as a star and Hogan still meant something. Even though Hogan was never anything close to the athlete Austin was, if you put Hogan at his NWO heel peak in the ring against Austin at his best as the King of Monday Night Ratings, fans would have had a true mark mag dream match to store in their memory banks. Interesting in a different way would be taking the WrestleMania I version of Hogan at his physical peak (yet a time when he was just going through the motions in the ring) against Austin during his peak of the WWF Attitude era.


    The Rock vs. Randy Savage: (w/Elizabeth): From a personality standpoint, this would have been a fun match to see. Savage was more of a cartoonish character than Rock, but both were colorful and cocky. Savage's finisher was the Top Rope Elbow and Rock's was The People's Elbow. Imagine Rock as the babyface talking trash about how Savage treated Elizabeth. In the ring, both at their peaks were probably similar in terms of working ability. Neither were considered the best all-around workers of their time, but they were very very close for some stretches. Both were smart in how they wrestled, and both shined best at the big shows, with Savage especially shining at WrestleMania III against Ricky Steamboat and Rock shining the most against Steve Austin three times.


    Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair: One of the greatest feuds of the '80s deserved to be part of the longest running supershow series pro wrestling has ever offered. Unlike the above examples, these two were contemporaries during their primes and did wrestle each other numerous times on PPV and national TV. But their matches were never part of WrestleMania, and it would be appropriate that they be given an opportunity try to outshine Bret vs. Angle as the best pure pro wrestling match on the show.


    Mick Foley vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts: Part of the reason for me choosing this match-up would be for the prematch interviews. Roberts would have inspired Foley to cut some of his best promos ever, and I think Foley would have challenged Roberts to take his erie promos to the next level. In the ring, Roberts was never the respected athlete that Foley became with his incredible bumps and work ethic, but Roberts was greatly respected for his ring psychology and efficiency of what he accomplished in the ring. Roberts wouldn't be the opponent some fans would like to see Foley take on in a WrestleMania dream match because its doubtful Roberts would be interested in Foley taking any big bumps, but Roberts would have provided a disciplined match layout that would have taken advantage of Foley's true strength at his peak, which was getting a huge crowd pop from just a tilt of his head or a particularly well-timed facial response. That's what Roberts did best, too, and seeing these two pros go at it during their physical and character primes would be fascinating.


    The Rockers vs. The British Bulldogs: I didn't forget about Shawn Michaels. I have saved him for a match against my favorite WWF Tag Team of all-time, The British Bulldogs (Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid). This could be a show-stealer, too, as at their physical peak, would there two more dynamic workers from the WrestleMania years who could face off than Michaels and Dynamite? And Marty Jannetty and Smith wouldn't be a bad pair of wrestlers to join in the fun. This match-up deserved to take place at a WrestleMania as the showcase of perhaps the two best tag teams of the WrestleMania years.


    Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash. The main event heel tag team from the first WrestleMania against the most famous duo from the Monday Night Wars, The Outsiders. This wouldn't be the best pure match on the show, but it's a good use of four names who were all major parts of various WrestleManias, two tag teams each featuring larger than life personalities and unmatched swaggers during their primes.


    Big Show vs. Andre the Giant: This is a pretty obvious choice. If the Big Show from his sophomore year when he was still relatively slim and had remarkable agility for a huge wrestler were to take on Andre the Giant during the pre-WrestleMania peaks years in his '70s when he'd actually do flying crossbody blocks, it could have been better than many would assume. Of course, the attraction here would be for Andre to have finally met his physical match, something that John Studd and even Hulk Hogan never did.


    Triple H vs. "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig: The 1998 Triple H vs. the 1988 Curt Hennig would have been a great match up of two similar-sized wrestlers, both with similar cocky, self-absorbed personas.


    Rob Van Dam vs. Ultimate Warrior: I booked this for pure selfish comedy purposes. Can you imagine a worse mismatch for either wrestler. Warrior, a rudimentary basic worker without a lot of athleticism taking on an undisciplined yet spectacular high-flyer? Mr. Calm and Cool RVD vs. Mr. Hyper Ultimate Warrior? Can you imagine the look on Warrior's face as he tried to catch RVD doing a flip dive over the top rope into his arms? Come on, admit it, this would be a spectacle worth booking just to see the train wreck. Who knows, perhaps they'd even bring out sides of the other we've never seen before. Maybe Warrior would attempt his own Van Daminator. Perhaps RVD would mock Warrior by running the ropes back and forth just to work himself into a Warrior-like frenzy.


    The Hardy Boys vs. Rick Martel & Tom Zenk vs. Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake vs. Edge & Christian: If there was going to be a three- or four-team match, it should involve the Hardys and Edge & Christian, who were part of the WWF era where three- and four-way matches became commonplace. Seeing them mix it up with two very different teams from a very different era, both of whom had very good matches and chemistry in their primes. Edge & Christian and The Hardys were during their early years what Martel & Zenk were originally marketed as, a sleek and athletic tag team that appeals to men and women alike. Valentine & Beefcake are a historically underrated tag team; Valentine was a great veteran tag team worker during his matches with The Hart Foundation and The British Bulldogs in the late '80s WWF.


    Undertaker vs. Dusty Rhodes: A battle of two icons, the early heel dead man Undertaker taking on the rolly-polly charisma juggernaut of Dusty (the NWA headliner version who teamed with Dick Murdoch, not the polka-dotted WWF version who teamed with Sapphire).


    Undercard: Brock Lesnar vs. Yokozuna (F5 that!)... Chris Jericho vs. Don Muraco... Rick Rude vs. Val Venis... LOD vs. Demolition... Raven vs. Superfly Snuka... Junkyard Dog vs. Ahmed Johnson (negative five stars)... The APA vs. Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff... Goldust vs. Adrian Adonis... Hacksaw Duggan vs. William Regal (facial expressions!)... Tito Santana vs. Booker T... The Dudleys vs. The Funks... George Steele vs. A-Train (back hair!)... Mr. T vs. Butterbean... New Age Outlaws vs. Islanders... Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Owen Hart...






    I would have LOVED to see a Dudleys vs. Funks match. Lord Bless the chaos! I could live without Taker vs. Rhodes or RVD vs. The Warrior. Otherwise this is a really great list? Has anyone got one of their own? Hopefully there isn't already a thread like this.




    :bonk: if there is.

  12. Kahran, how do you feel about it for medicinal purposes?


    The only medicinal purpose that pot actually serves is what you referred to before: pain relief. It's less virulent than opiates and sometimes even more effective.


    If you listen to Johns Hopkins (and you should, b/c they have the best opthamology program in the world), using pot for glaucoma really doesn't change anything. It might reduce pressure, but that's through reducing blood flow, which means less oxygen and no healing of the retina.

    Well, my g/f smokes it as relief for the seizures she has as a result of the chemo she has gone through twice now. Her own experimentation has shown some great results in the reduction of the frequency. She did most of her chemo during july had several seizures in the following weeks, but they lessened though august and sept. So I could never argue it with her even if I wanted to.



    Anyway, off topic. Sorry.

  13. Oh Jesus H. Christ it was probably a joke. This thread pushed me over the edge -- I'm going to now get a "No Spin Zone" doormat for the house.


    And I'd rather put my faith into someone that has had a lifetime of experience than some college grad...

    Yikes, struck a nerve there! Indeed it was a joke. Calm down hippie.




    Can't wait to see O'Reilly continue to angle for Dan Rathers job. The Daily Show apperance outta be good.