treble

One curse delayed for at least another day, time to break another one...

You know what was terrible? That joke! LOLZING

No, the fan didn't decide the game, but he did play a role in the outcome, and, like I said before, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the entire loss on him but to say he had no say in what happened in the game is false. I believe Alou would have caught it had the fan not got in his way. We can play 'what if' all night but that's just what I believe. And yeah, if the Cubs can't recover from that tonight, then they don't deserve to win the series (and won't). A 3-0 lead in baseball can disappear with one swing of the bat, while in hockey once you get a 3 goal lead, you can start playing a more defensive game, something that's much harder to do in baseball (you probably aren't going to want to make too many defensive substitutes if your lead isn't very big). And, the play turned the game in the Marlins favour since it gave them an opportunity to have 2 men on with only 1 out as opposed to only a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. Sure, the Marlins were still trying, but it hadn't been paying off until that point. What I mean is that the Cubs can't sit around going, 'Oh well, we would have won the game if it wasn't for that fan.' They have to look in the mirror and realize that they blew the game themselves, that the fan didn't help things along but it was their own fault for giving up most of those 8 runs. He never broke any rules, but unintentionally he hurt the Cubs by getting in Alou's way. And I've never said he was the reason that the Cubs lost, just that he contributed to at least 1 of the the Marlins' 8 runs. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he DID hurt the Cubs and you can't ignore the fact that at least 1 of the Marlins runs, maybe 2, can be blamed on him and that opened up the floodgates for the Marlins to score 8 total. So while he's not totally at fault, he's not totally blameless, either.

Yeah, the best I can remember from being at that show is this: I know for sure- Stevie Richards vs. Crash Holly was a dark match and that on Jakked, Kaientai beat Raven/Justin Credible and Mike Awesome beat Scotty 2 Hotty. I also remember the Hardy Boyz beating (I'm 99% sure) Kanyon/Hugh Morrus, too. I also remember Chuck Palumbo and Billy Gunn having matches, too, but I can't remember against who (I'm pretty sure Chuck's was a dark match).

Even if the Cubs do win tonight but end up losing in the World Series, you know that he'll just get blamed for messing up the starting rotation.

I never said that it was the only play the Cubs fucked up, but you can't deny that missed catch changed the whole game. Instead of a runner on 2nd with 2 outs, you end up with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. That's huge. No, you can't blame the fan for all the runs and the Cubs shouldn't be, either, but my point is 8 runs don't score if Alou makes that catch (and the ball was going to fall right in his glove before Bartman's hand got in the way, so I believe that he would have come up with it). Well, that's a little different, as a 3-0 lead in baseball is nowhere near as safe as a 7-0 lead in hockey (or even a 3-0 lead, for that matter). Again, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the fan for the loss, but he did play a part in turning the game around in the Marlins favour. No, it shouldn't bother them and, again, the Cubs shouldn't blame him for the loss, but he did change the game and (indirectly) lead to at least 1 run for the Marlins (Pierre, I think it was, who went to 3rd on the wild ball four pitch) and that opened the floodgates. And, yeah, I probably would have tried to catch that ball, but if I did what Bartman did, I'd probably feel like shit about it right now. No, the fan didn't break any rules and I never said that he did. He had full rights to try and catch it, even if it was a stupid thing to do. If Alou catches that ball, then Castillo is not on base to score, plain and simple, so there's 1 run that can be directly attributed to Alou not catching it. The main reason Alou couldn't catch it was because the fan got in his way. I never blamed the fan for the Cubs allowing 8 runs, but he did indirectly make it easier for the Marlins to do so. I agree, the Cubs should take it upon themselves to realize that they blew the lead, not the fan, BUT, the fan changed the game and even though it's impossible to know what would have happened if Alou caught it, it's not unreasonable to believe that the Cubs get out of the inning with the lead intact, or at least not down by 5 runs.

Doing a little bit of Googling, I've found this Bartman guy's e-mail addy (well, his work one, at least). That's going to be flooded, since it wasn't too hard to find.

But there would have been less people on base when Gonzalez booted it and the entire situation would have been different. Gonzalez should have made the play, but there's no way the Marlins put up 8 if the fan gets out of Alou's way.

I don't know, this one just had the same 'post structure' as CWM, if that means anything.

Uh, wasn't it kind of obvious?

OK, the Cubs don't give up 8 runs if the fan doesn't get in Alou's way. I'm not saying that they don't give up any runs at all, the Marlins could have even tied it, but that one play changed the whole dynamic of the game.

The ball was out of play, which is why no one argued that there should have been a fan interference call on the play. If you look at Alou's reaction, he was pissed at the fan, but not the ump. Whether it would have made a difference in the long run, Alou clearly had that ball caught, and since it was followed up by a big hit in the same at bat, it did mean SOMETHING with regards to the outcome of the game.

I can't bring myself to buy anything but burgers at Wendy's.

No one's saying the fan broke any rules, they're just saying that he's stupid for interfering with the play when it could have been a critical out.

The Marlins have never lost a series. This has to end.

Life sucks.

If Alou makes the out, Lowell (that's who it was, right?) doesn't get the hit and there's 2 outs with a runner on 2nd. The whole dynamic of the game is changed. Now, ALL the blame doesn't go to the fan, but if he gets out of the way and Alou catches it, I think the Cubs would have won.

I realize that they still have game 7 tomorrow (barring an even more unbelievable comeback in the bottom of the 9th), but shit, this team has had the life sucked out of it. I hope that I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that it will be like the Red Sox in game 7 in '86. I hope Urbina's arm falls off.

Well, they have 2 innings to get 5 runs. COMEBACK!

Shit like this makes me believe in curses. Unreal.

This really is the worst thing that I've ever seen happen, EVER.

Worst thing ever.

Where's Peggy Hill?

With regards to the Mondesi situation, the Jays paid his salary for the rest of the year and just wanted to get rid of him.