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Well all of the 4 Horsemen should be considered: Flair the Andersons Tully Barry Windham JJ Dillion Ok maybe not all of the Horsemen as Sid, Mongo, Paul, Malenko were not that good on the mic. A damn good point right there, the entire 4 Hoursemen were masters of the mic. With, obviously, the exceptions that you listed.

I can't stand Rocky's mic work, I just can't. I admit that he makes me smile, but his style just isn't something that I can slap a big "best of all time" label on. His work comprised of the same phrases all of the time, cheap immature sexaul jokes, and cut downs of the such that I thought I'd only year in grade school. I never took him seriously on the mic, actually... ...his work was just about all a joke to me. I laughed, but I never did much else.

Personally, I have Arn Anderson as one of the top guys on the mic of all time. I'm also glad to see a Jake Roberts and Ted DiBiase mention in this thread.

Then who are you to say without seeing Flair's work in his prime what he can and can not do? What I mean is... If you are basing your opinon just on what you've seen of the man in WWE, then you are wrong to do that. For one Ric Flair hasn't been a part of hardly any GREAT angles (how about any) since he returned to WWE. He hasn't had much to work with, and considering that he's been fucking outstanding. Just say that Jericho is the best that you've ever seen if you've never seen Flair. It isn't fair to the argument to say otherwise. EDIT: I see that you said now that Jericho is simply your favorite since 2000 in WWE, and that's fair. You owe it to yourself to check out the upcoming Flair DVD, trust me.

The match would have been a lot better had they not placed the "gimmick" around it. Had it just been a match that went an hour or more, and then FINALLY one of them beat the other guy, then it would have been a much better match, and I'd be able to forgive them for the subpar work throughout the match. A great "iron man" match is one which you can't take your eyes away from it, you care for every move that happens, and I simply didn't care for most of THIS one. The overtime ruined everything, it made the idea of the match void, it canceled out what it should have been about, it was pointless. There is no use discussing this, because my opinion will never change on it, it just wasn't a good match to me, and for that reason to me, it's the most overrated match of all time...period.

I'll say it once more, as I've said before... ...Ric Flair is one of the only Pro. Wrestlers which actually got me emotional by what he said. It's happened very few times, and there isn't a single guy out there that has made me feel that way more times than Flair. Cactus Jack did it quite a few times, Owen Hart even did it a few times, but I can't think of too many other guys which have made me TRULY emotional by what they said in a promo/interview.

Then who are you to say without seeing Flair's work in his prime what he can and can not do?

Ric Flair can do all of what has been mentioned, and then some.

Download Vegas Video, it's easy as hell to use. Go to SuperNova.org and look around for the program, it comes with a crack and everything.

I WANT it to become more of a sport, I CRAVE that. However, you know and I know that the chances of that happening, under the McMahons, are totally absent.

By the way, I believe the hate for Holly stems from him simply being a dick.

A better question is just how in the hell does WWE expect the fans to take to Bob Holly as some sort of "threat" to Brock Lesnar, after using him for shit for the majority of his career. I happen to like the guy, and WANT to see him get a push, but I don't understand the logic of this sort of push, right now.

Great logic you have there. It's a matter of discussing if the sport can either go back to how it was to an extent, or if it would have been possible to remain as it was.

It's from Bad Dudes.

I can back you up on that one, as I LOVE that match. I have it on my computer, and it's just great. OMG, I agree with you again. I am MUCH more of a fan of that match over the Bret/Shawn encounter.

I only play the game on hard, and I have SUCH a hard time trying to defeat someone like Goldberg when using a lower card type of guy. But, I love it. I've had some of the best matches of all time in this game.

The overtime made the entire idea of the match itself void. It was a contest to see who could get the most pinfalls in an hour, and it didn't happen. There wasn't a SINGLE pinfall or submission or ANY sort of decision the entire match. There was no need for an Iron Man match, and it will forever irk the hell out of me.

If people were booked as heels, people that the fans could get emotionally involved with in terms of truly hating them, it'd be very damn easy.

You can actually win a match, using anyone, against anyone, on ANY difficulity you please by simply going to the top rope, jumping off with whatever moves you have that you can do to a standing opponent, and just doing that over and over again. Your opponent will always come to the corner to try to throw you off, and you'll nail them each and every time. I refrain from doing stuff like this, because really, is the game even worth playing if we do that all of the time? They don't counter you? I've had them grab me while climbing the turnbuckle, or the move missed and it left me open to attack. Well you obviously don't climb up to the top when they are RIGHT THERE with you. If you do that, they'll just toss/hit you off and you'll fall down. Also, you obviously wait untill they are near you. You wait untill they are on the other side of the ring, climb up to the top, and then whey they are walking towards you you hit the move. It'll work every single time if you know what you are doing. Also, keep in mind that certain top rope moves must be done with your opponent a certain distance away from you, so just know what move you are going to pull off, so you can time it right. The easiest move to do, if whoever you are has the move, is the missle dropkick. I'm not saying to use this method, because it just ruins the game if that's the only way you play against the computer. I hope that they fix this "trick" for the next SD game, so that it isn't even an option to use.

Oh no it is not. Awful selling...pointless simplistic matwork that led nowhere...restholds everywhere...no falls in an hour...stupid sudden death finish. Most overrated match *ever*. I've never agreed with you more than I do about this. It's also my pick for the MOST OVERRATED MATCH EVER. I really can't hardly stand it, there are so many flaws in the match it's not even funny. I fucking wish they just booked a one on one match between the two. They could have booked it so that it LOOKED like Bret won the match, but Shawn just BARELY was able to hold on. Then They could book the, what could've been, classic finish where HBK finally reaches the top of the mountain. I mean, think about it. Had it just been a simple one on one match, yet went for a long time which is not what fans are used to, would that not have had people more so on the edge of their seat? Toss in a bunch of near falls, and it could've been a magic encounter.

Are you guys done now?

I've said it over, and over, and over, and OVER again. It's not hard to figure out what's wrong with the product today. More than anything else, to me, it's the presentation of what's going on and how angles play out. That Cena example is great by the way. There is ONE situation where I would accept Cena being ok with Angle/Eddie. That being, that something MAJOR happened between him and A-Train, and he ended up hating him a hell of a lot more than how much he hates the other two guys. Then, just so he can get his hands on the guy he hates the most, he joins the other team of guys that he also hates...just not as much. At Survivor Series, I hope to God that they have him play up how he is reluctant to work with the guys on his team. I'm not saying keep him heel, just extend his turn a bit. Of course, the entire reason that he's pissed with A-Train isn't worth a shit and isn't anything major enough to have me care about that feud, so fuck it.

You can actually win a match, using anyone, against anyone, on ANY difficulity you please by simply going to the top rope, jumping off with whatever moves you have that you can do to a standing opponent, and just doing that over and over again. Your opponent will always come to the corner to try to throw you off, and you'll nail them each and every time. I refrain from doing stuff like this, because really, is the game even worth playing if we do that all of the time?

I agree with both of you, HHH was a great heel. Not only does he actually have a bit of talent (he can have a good match, don't try to dispute that) but he has such a great heel character when he's on. It makes sense though, because as far as I remember he did look up to Ric Flair while growing up and the such. Back in '99-'00, HHH was ON. What pisses me off though, is that they fucking turned him face, they ruined a good thing just so he could get the babyface pop of returning from his injury, and play out the "storybook ending" by winning at WM. Just imagine if he had come back as a heel, he could have been even more cocky than ever.

Are you talking about Maxx Muscle?