justcoz

I understand where you are coming from but it doesn't have to be difficult or stressful to the workers. It's just another viable option in your storytelling. It would make sense to use it rather than pretend that it doesn't exist, it's only a small minority of fans (which is true but again, it's word of mouth, that small percentage turns into a sizeable chant at an arena show or tv taping), and that you must protect kayfabe. Kayfabe can never exist again. People aren't going to believe this is real. Especially when you have a creative team that leaves major holes in their storytelling to the point where anyone with any sort of logic whatsoever can't suspend belief for one moment. Working the net and insiders isn't something that should be done on a weekly basis but why not do it from time to time? For all we know, Matt Hardy may still be with WWE and they are just letting him cool off, work some indie dates, speak to the net and continue generating heat towards Edge and Lita so there can be a Holy Shit moment down the road. Just like the Montreal incident could have actually been a work to give Bret some momentum going into WCW and create a heel character for Vince McMahon. Only a small percentage of the audience probably got the fact that "Vince screwed Bret" by demanding the ref ring the bell but it's legend grew beyond 'working the smarts'.

This goes along with what I've been saying for three years - WWE could really work the net and insider fans, if they wanted to. People have responded by saying, "well, that's only a small percentage of the audience, why waste their time" and maybe they are right. That small percentage of the audience however is very vocal and the opinion and news that they spread travels very fast. WWE underestimates this and they are proven wrong every time, whether it's Brock-Goldberg at Mania or Edge/Hardy/Lita. A good creative team would capitalize on this. I'm not talking constant Russo'esque shoot angles that go over the casual fans heads, I'm talking creatively using the internet in storytelling.

If I were Vince, I'd have Matt Hardy and Edge in my office trying to convince them that there is money right now in working a program together and asking that they be professional enough to realize this. Storyline wise, I'd have Lita betray Kane for Edge. Granted, this could lead to some miserable Kane-Edge matches but the main objective is to rid the show of the fake Kane-Lita marriage. Lita and Edge could brag about having an affair, not only on Kane, but Matt Hardy as well. Perhaps even say that Lita had an abortion, losing the baby wasn't Snitsky's fault, and the father wasn't Kane or Matt. It was Edge's and Lita had the abortion because no baby was going to interrupt Edge's quest for the World heavyweight title. This will get massive heat on Lita for being a slut and Edge for being an asshole. Allow Matt to work indies, like ROH, and continue playing the victim, while secretly having a WWE return date locked up. He can publicly cry on the Internet as to how disgusting it is for WWE to turn his real life trauma into an angle and how Lita and Edge are the most disgusting people on earth for agreeing to it. Have him still use the Internet and his indie appearances to encourage fans to chant "We Want Matt" at Edge and Lita, everytime they appear. Make sure the heat towards Edge and Lita doesn't go away. Edge vs. Matt Hardy at Summerslam with Lita suspended in a cage over the ring.

They neutered Cena's character with the babyface turn, just like they typically do when they turn an "over" heel into a face. What once got cheered because it came off edgey in an Eminem sense is now getting booed because it's campy in a Marky Mark or Vanilla Ice kind of way. The face turn took away his excellent mic work as a heel, when his raps weren't campy and an excuse to call another wrestler a homo. I also think his weakness in the ring is more exposed now as a babyface. If they insist on running with the hip hop character, turn him tweener and let him go back to what he was doing in 2003-early 2004. He wasn't getting booed at MSG at the time of Wrestlemania 20 but they cut his balls off from him in time for him to be booed at the same arena one year later. I say, drop the hip hop shtick and just let him act like a thug from Boston. He has the acting ability to be serious when required and it was a nice touch he added to his character leading into Mania. It's not enough though.

I think that I see your point. I think pro wrestling/sports entertainment, within itself, no matter the packaging, is going to appeal to the same type of advertising demographic. Yes, there would be people watching one show of their preference over another but isn't that what Linda McMahon keeps repeating as a positive during her WWE investor calls? Only 40% watch both Smackdown and Raw or something like that. So they are already dividing an audience by seperating their rosters - which they don't seem to be abandoning anytime soon. One concern would be if USA is selling the advertising for Raw, how would they sell the same advertising for the ECW programming, under the WWE advertising umbrella, when there is the chance that Paul Heyman would do something stupid, like having a wrestler crucified? Which brings us to your next point. Well, you again already have that problem with the brand extension. You would just be splitting the main roster into three rather than two. They can fit talent jumps into storylines through loser leaves town matches, contract disputes, whatever. They would have a larger pull of talent from the indie affiliates to call up for test runs. They could still do a yearly draft lottery. Perhaps have trade deadlines. Let's say, if creative for WCW don't have anything for Matt Hardy, ECW does however, rather than letting someone go with that lame excuse, you can move them around with an on-air trade. They could even mimic the NFL draft and call up young prospects from the affiliate indie territories. It doesn't have to be the same people on top. It is right now though. Your main point however.... would the WWE stigma be attached to whatever promotion. Well, yes, probably. WWE is the executive producer. Each show would have a different flavor and look however depending upon the creative director and direction. However, like I mentioned above with the ECW crucifixition angle, there would more than likely have to be some sort of clearance process and editor, perhaps Vince, if it's Stephanie or HHH then what's the point of the whole thing anyway? Certain creative directors would be frustrated because their content was cut or in question. It's quite possible that we'd run into the same power struggles that we have now. Raw is where the money is, what if it doesn't perform as well as WCW? They didn't like it one bit when Smackdown outperformed Raw. So there are logistics which still have to be figured out. I wasn't writing a business plan here, just an outline of a general direction. I never said Paul Heyman = $$$$ but rather Vince should be thinking about $$$$ rather than sitting capable wrestling storytelling minds at home because they are too abrasive to gel with other members of creative with a less impressive resume and lesser amount of respect from your contracted talent. The workers want Paul in a creative position more than management. He obviously has a mind for the storytelling and character building aspect of the business, financial and bookkeeping seemed to be his problem. Ditto for Eric Bischoff. The man responsible for at least creatively nearly putting the WWF under, forcing them to reinvent their product. Why pay to fly him from taping to taping to appear on camera and speak for less than a minute when he can be contracted in a role which could possibly make the company some money. Vince beat Ted Turner. It's over. Move on for the best interest of the company. Perhaps mat work was the wrong description to use for ECW. It wasn't exactly ROH. However, in my opinion, they put more of an emphasis on bringing in "good workers" than the garbage match, extreme stigma they get tagged with. Granted, there were times those good workers were using offense with chairs, rather than mat work, there was still a greater understanding from the ECW audience and the company of the concept of a good worker. Without a doubt. The reason it hasn't changed much however is mostly because they mix the creative teams to work both shows. There is no internal rivalry. Perhaps among the talent that element seems to exist somewhat but it the same creative direction defined by the McMahons. It doesn't have to be that way though. This is what the McMahons have to realize for themselves. Have a content board of directors that oversees each of the products, not forcing upon storyline issues but to ensure that the shows are within company standards. There will be a WWE banner attached to each individual company because they are the producer and governing body. That can't be escaped. Just like the Dallas Cowboys couldn't have their cheerleaders to a topless halftime show without the approval of the NFL. You can do this and still create three products with their own identity thanks to the seperation in the creative process. Not since the success of the various DVD's, the launching of WWE 24-7, the HOF ceremonies, etc. It's kind of obvious that this is a direction they are building on.

I think they really need to get WWE 24-7 on as many cable outlets as possible and I wish they would have inked something in their new TV deal that would see them possibly get an actual legit cable channel. The reason that WWE 24-7 is important is because even the most cynical friend or co-worker you know that despises wrestling did in fact watch at some point in their lives. Whether it was Bruno or The Crusher when they were little kids. Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair when they were teens. Attitude and Nitro when they were adults. People grow out of it or move on to other things. Vince McMahon controlling all of these video libraries is bigger than eating up all the territories in the 80's. This is him holding practically the entire industry's history in the palm of his hand and it needs to be packaged properly and viewable to the masses, not just die hards that want to spend some extra bucks each month. People like reliving their pasts, they like nostalgia - see the pops Hogan is getting today when he had "we're sick of him" heat five years ago. Pro wrestling is as americana as anything on television. It was on network television before major league professional sports. There needs to be a push towards this respect - to erase the low brow stereotypical image. I also think they should beef up the content on the channel. There is no reason why they can't broadcast indies like ROH or other regional indie promotions across the country, broadcast the weekly OVW show, air wrestling from Japan or lucha libre, etc. Hell, put guys like Dave Meltzer on payroll, in the late night hours, and let them host a show towards a smarter more insider fan. These fans are not the enemy. They are the diehards. The video library is impressive in itself but what if you amped it up to be the showcase of all showcases of the art that is sports entertainment? At this point, World Wrestling Entertainment, should be seen as a name brand just as powerful and equal to the NFL. It's beyond one company - the company that used to be the World Wrestling Federation. It's now indicative of an entire industry! So... in relation to the current product, World Wrestling Entertainment in it's present form ceases to exist. WWE is now nothing more than the parent company of the other entities that they have name rights to - World Championship Wrestling, Extreme Championship Wrestling and maybe the World-Wide Wrestling Federation or just "World Wrestling Federation" without the WWF initials? World Wrestling Federation Raw airs on the USA Network. Extreme Championship Wrestling airs on Saturday nights on USA in place of Heat. Smackdown morphs into WCW after an Eric Bischoff/Shane McMahon power struggle with HHH and Stephanie on Raw. Saturday Night's Main Event could showcase talent from each of the companies, perhaps leading into interbrand PPV's which would be Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and Survivor Series and be a completely unique program, perhaps with Vince and Jesse Ventura doing the commentary. Each brand entity has their own creative team. It's just bad business for someone like Paul Heyman to be sitting at home only because Stephanie and others in creative do not like him. That's exactly the kind of tension Vince should be looking for within his ranks. For christ sakes, look for $$$$$$$ rather than protecting egos. Let Heyman and Dreamer book ECW and compete with Stephanie/HHH/Gerwitz, etc. Let Eric Bischoff essentially produce and oversee WCW with Vince's payroll to do as he wishes. Hire the writers and consultants of his choosing. Play the three different shows off of each other with the occassional talent jump, etc. Have them cut on the other company in commentary as a means of cross promoting. Buy ads on each other's programming. Let the rivalries create themselves since there is no direct competition and the chances of a company emerging to compete with WWE in the coming years is doubtful. So, for the sake of the business, set the three shows apart from the other. Give some sort of incentive to each creative director and each brand's talent for the best PPV buyrates, ratings, merchandise sales, etc. No bullshit. No one political agenda dominating the situation and jeopardizing the business by turning fans off who want one thing over the other. WWWF can produce the "live", unpredictable show that Raw is known for. Like others have stated, change the ring set up. Dim the lights when there is wrestling action to take the focus off of the morons on their cell phones, waving their signs and not paying attention to what's going on in the ring. Change the announce team. The camera angles, the color scheme, etc. End the backstage segments where the camera is there for no reason. Since they are live, have the interviews and any mic work right out there in front of the audience. Cameras can still catch some things going on outside the arena or backstage but not just two people standing at the coffee pot discussing their 'secret plot' they've come up with. Stop insulting the intelligence of the audience. That era of crash tv needs to die for Raw to move on. Include some squashes featuring indie or development talent that can bump and sell for the regular workers. Build angles gradually so feuds can go on longer and have more impact and meaning. Have perhaps two long, feature matches per episode, and build up to them with video packages, interviews, etc. Then let the guys go out there and work a WWE style match but with some buildup leading into it. WCW can challenge Eric Bischoff to reinvent delivering the wrestling product. While I talked about ending backstage skits on Raw, since Smackdown is taped and not live, maybe increase that element on the WCW show. Have Eric Bischoff state that in order to compete against Survivor and "reality tv", his show will have cameras in the locker room, backstage, following talent around in their personal lives, etc. Make it almost like Wrestling With Shadows or Beyond the Mat with actual matches taped at the arena like The Contender, Ultimate Fighter, Tough Enough, etc. Don't give the impression that the show is live. Make it a combination shoot and storyline so nobody is really sure where the lines are crossed. Perhaps someone would take to Dave Batista more if they knew that his wife has battled cancer and his late start in the business is because of the years he spent looking after her. A smart ass opponent can comment that his age and inexperience is a detriment. How he doesn't seem comfortable addressing the live audience in his promos. How his mind is elsewhere and not on his match. Shoot it like a reality tv show with a wrestling match coming as a result. Instead of Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrerro being on the outs because of dissention in their tag team, Eddie overhears Rey making a remark that Eddie couldn't handle the pressures of being world champion and is vulnerable to criticism. More reality leading into the wrestling. ECW would of course be more about mat work and adult storylines and characters. The show would be taped from some place like the Hammerstein Ballroom or Manhatten Center and they'd have a lower budget to work to maintain an underdog status, despite being under the WWE corporate umbrella. Sign indies across the country up under the WWE umbrella. They can either get their programming synidcated in regional markets or broadcast them on WWE 24-7. Let the majority of the workers freelance independently but sign the prospect from here or there that makes some noise to an exclusive WWE development contract. Allow development talent to go from region to region to perfect their act before getting a shot in one of the major three. Groom the bookers of the regional areas as potential WWE creative team prospects. Secure the future of the business while promoting it's history. Since NFL players and some celebs/musicians are marks for WWE, do some commericals with them talking about their favorite moments in the history of wrestling, with video footage of the events, the campaign can be WWE: This is all Real.... and Forever... Then each show can have their own slogan reflective of the niche and segment of the audience they are trying to reach.

I'm all about faggy indie shit and metal, where can I listen?

They are still considered local although they tour nationally more than play local shows. Typically, when they come into town, they sell out and the event is treated more or less as a touring band coming into town. They get ragged on by other bands for the blue collar type of music they play (artsy Pittsburgh tends to fight that blue collar stereotype) and jealousy because they get radio support in town from everyone from WDVE, WXDX to WYEP, while other local bands have a more difficult time getting on radio.

I really wish they'd promote Stephanie to another position, outside of creative. It's time to move on. She's the head of the creative team and she can't even bother to check out their development roster? Then she's expected to know what to do with the talent when they get called up? Watch Koskey, Laguna and Gerwitz all take pointers from how Cornette writes OVW TV, books to talent's strengths, etc. and make similar suggestions to Steph only for her to shoot them down. They should just send the entire creative team to a wrestling booking bootcamp with Cornette.

they are more effective when Hussan's image appears, like with Pee Wee and OJ... fun stuff, thanks...

TAZZ FEARS SETH COHEN

I just re-wrote or erased history, WWE creative style ;-)

Johnny Nitro, Joey Matthews and Melina are more than likely headed to SD. Perhaps Matt Capotelli and Johnny Jeter could still end up on Raw although MNM wouldneed some good teams to work with on Smackdown. Why didn't they keep Albright and Masters as a tag team instead of putting Masters in this singles gimmick role he obviously can't pull off. Maybe put ALbright with Rob Conway who needs out of the La Resistance gimmick. Matt Morgan and Fertig in a Demolition gimmick to compete with the reuninted Rockers? Teddy Hart and Harry Smith maybe?

If only creative could have thought up the $1000 Full Nelson Challenge for V1....

Shelton has the personality to get over huge but they have him in the "smiling black kid does good" Bob Backlund from the hood role. If they allowed him to demostrate the personality he was showing on Smackdown and in his Raw debut, the mannerisms and attitude he had in skits with Bischoff and Austin and his match with HHH, he'd be in a different place right now. They've given the IC Title but haven't used the belt to get him over at all. I used to always argue that analogy, feeling the talent should be over before they get the title, but where would JBL be right now if that's the case. In pushing guys up the card, a solid championship reign should be important. Not a reign that is an afterthought, like Shelton's so far. He seems to be getting more recognition for his athleticism in recent weeks though. He's standing out from the rest of the talent, despite booking. This was discussed in another thread but I feel Monty Brown would be over huge in WWE. I just like the guys enthusiasm. His promo style, despite being a throwback to the 80's, makes him seem like a star. I honestly feel he has a Rock like presence although they may need to work on his in-ring. WWE also totally dropped the ball when they released Ron Killings and Elix Skipper. Killings could be a good rival for John Cena and Skipper could have added something to the Cruiserweight division.

I think Shelton Benjamin, if he isn't ruined by bad booking and creative, has a real good opportunity to be main eventing one day. I think he has better heel tendencies however.

It's also on the Comedy Central home page. No details. Just 1968-2005.

I always thought WWE had a chance to really poke fun at smarks by making their idiot savant, Eugene, have some smark tendencies.

I'd still like to see them use some ROH talent on the ECW pay per view but Meltzer and everyone are saying it won't happen. I just think it would be wise to put Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk on the PPV to test waters so to speak since WWE have considered hiring the each of them and you know they'd be working in ECW right now had it not folded. I was talking about this the other day though. With them having WWE 24/7, what is the harm in showing OVW or ROH television or maybe producing something like an ROH PPV? The future of the business wouldn't be so bleak if Vince did something to sort of recreate the territory vibe, hosting development and enhancement territories, using what they hope to become "the wrestling channel" to give new talent some exposure.

All the more reason why Mr. T should have been inducted into the Celebrity Wing this year.

I really disagree here. That whole statement sounds like something that would come from a HHH interview in response to being criticized for holding people down. A good wrestler/performer may be able to turn shit into gold, like you said, but it doesn't help when you have a creative team that fumbles the gold right back into the toilet and flushes it. The bits between Hurricane and The Rock were classic and Hurricane got over from interacting with The Rock. The Rock recognized this and jobbed to Hurricane only for HHH to squash him shortly afterwards and Hurricane return to a Heat level gimmick performer. I've said this before, they have a comic book super hero gimmick and not once has Gerwitz, the comic book geek, came up with an arch nemesis heel foe. It could have been Nova. Remember when they were even teasing a heel turn for Hurricane before creative suddenly forgot they were doing that? The Hurricane gimmick still sales merchandise but if creative isn't going to be creative with the gimmick then it's wasting Helms who would be better off without the gimmick, on Smackdown, in the CW division. Steven Richards was over in the RTC and was about as passionate as a performer that they had on their roster. His ring work was decent enough despite being plagued by injuries. When they disbanded RTC, he was forgotten. He still managed to keep himself over to a point with the Stevie Night Heat gimmick before Stephanie decided to watch Heat and get upset with it. The combination of him and heel Victoria was over to a degree and inexplicably broken up. He was getting pops and Stevie chants when he was showing up in drag but that ended in him getting squashed by Tyson Tomko and being blamed for the awful match. Tajiri has been over very much at certain points only to be jobbed out. He's one of the best performers in the company when it comes to backstage segments. Rhyno was over pretty big during the Invasion angle and when he returned from his neck injury, again only to be jobbed out and treated as an after thought. Val Venis was working hard with the Chief Morely gimmick and then they decided to get lazy and go back to the old stand-by, Hello Ladies, porn star thing and guess what... it's not 1998 anymore. I'm not saying the above mentioned talent do not have weaknesses. It's obvious that there were holes in creative that hurt any progression that could have existed towards making them stars. There was also more freedom in character development when Rock, Austin, Foley and HHH got over and none of them were ever jobbed out, reduced to the B-show or treated as an after thought with the exception of HHH's Clique punishment.

Right, which is all the more reason that I was impressed by how good he looked on Raw and Smackdown. Most older stars that work bottom of the barrell indie shows tend to look like Jake Roberts. Marty obviously keeps in shape and still takes pride in his ring work which is the reason that WWE is giving him another shot. Unfortunately, I think they are dropping the ball by putting him on Raw. He'd be of more use on Smackdown, maybe even dropping down to a cruiserweight and working against guys like Rey, Chavo, London, Juvi, Psychosis, etc. If he's going to be used to put guys over, let's see him putting over guys he can work a good match with rather than bumping for Snitsky and Tyson Tomko.

I'd put Marty on Smackdown and have him get some wins on that show. Maybe team him with someone like Paul London and get a tag title reign. Then have Shawn Michaels get traded over to Smackdown and start running the show. Annoying Marty by giving him advice before matches and mentoring London, essentially stealing Marty's spot pretty much. This will cause him to flip out and turn on HBK leading to another feud between the two. Or maybe not.

Since they don't appear to be giving Rey and Eddie any buildup for the Mania match maybe they can just throw together a tag champ vs. tag champ match with Rey/Eddie vs. Regal and Tajiri?

Which is all the more reason why they don't need to tweak his character to sell merchandise and get people to cheer for him. He doesn't have to play to the crowd and his raps don't have to be "cute" and funny so people laugh and smile. He was cheered when he was a heel, just like Rock was, yet they neutered his character after the face switch, just like they did to the Rock. If he's going to play the hip hop angle at all, just let him do what he did to get the character over initially. I kind of see them moving away from the hip hop shtick as Cena's been playing a more serious role on the mic the past few weeks. I guess he can mature and still be from the streets of Boston without acting like Marky Mark, just like Mark Wohlberg did.