justcoz

Whatever happened to Faith No More guy? He used to be at WWF shows in NY/Phili as well.

HBK vs. Rock HBK vs. Angle HBK vs. RVD (with time) HBK vs. Eddie HBK vs. Paul London HBK vs. Rey it's too bad HBK is on the wrong show! Angle vs. Samoa Joe Angle vs. Ken Shamrock Angle vs. Dan Puder Angle vs. Shelton Benjamin Angle vs. Charlie Haas (with time and something on the line) HHH vs. Sting Rock vs. Cena Rock vs. Orton Rey Mysterio vs. Paul London Rey Mysterio vs. Amazing Red Rey Mysterio vs. AJ Styles Rey Mysterio vs. Brian Danielson Rey Mysterio vs. Christopher Daniels John Cena vs. Ron Killings John Cena vs. Randy Savage Randy orton (w/ legend killer shtick) vs. Randy Savage

Stevie couldn't be a main eventer or pushed to any great extreme because of his injuries. However, he could be entertaining as demonstrated in ECW and anytime he's been given an opportunity to work the mic in WWE. He could still be a valuable part of the roster rather than someone who can't even get on television.

Well, Vince actually saw Taz in a WWF ring years before he signed him to a contract when ECW invaded the Raw anniversary show at the Manhatten Center in New York. Taz wrestled that night. Add two more people to my list although in smaller roles. Spanky and Paul London had all the ingredients to become this generation's Rockers, Rock n Roll Express and Hardys. The pretty boy faces who lacked the size but had all the heart and ability. When a creative team says, "we don't know what to do with you guys, let's put you on velocity", that just screams to me that they don't know or understand the wrestling business. If you would have thrown a Spanky/London team on the roster with a Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Bill Watts or even Kevin Sullivan booking, they would have known exactly what roles to put them in and Spanky would have been bumping like Ricky Morton to the screams of teenage girls across the country.

First, I do not believe that Heyman has been released. No other sites have reported anything beyond his profile page being off the Smackdown superstar list. Granted, he hasn't been at any shows since his removal from creative, let's not forget that it's the holidays, perhaps he's on a break or they just felt that it was better to keep him away for a bit. It could also all be a swerve leading into an ECW PPV. He could very well still be on payroll and just sitting at home waiting until an angle comes that brings back ECW. They are doing things like removing his Superstar page just to mess with Internet writers. My opinion is that Vince McMahon really does respect Paul Heyman. At least as far as his mind for the business. Someone mentioned that he looked pained to compliment Paul on the DVD. I disagree. From many of the things I read, Vince typically went along with most of Paul's major ideas only to meet resistence from HHH and Stephanie. I think deep down Vince knows that Paul on creative is best for the company. I think he understands that most of the talent would prefer Paul in a prominent role on the creative team and I think this is why he routinely put Heyman back into a creative role. Where Heyman gets screwed in the company isn't with Vince McMahon. It's with HHH, Gerwitz and Stephanie. I think the rest of the writing team somewhat respect Heyman, specifically the ones who were ECW followers. To the three mentioned earlier, Heyman is a threat. Gerwitz knew that Smackdown was better in quality than Raw when it was rival teams led by Gerwitz and Heyman. HHH and Stephanie probably didn't like this because Raw was the Game's show. Gerwitz didn't like this because he knew that Raw was the show Vince cared about the most and he was being outperformed by Paul. HHH and Steph probably look at Heyman getting in Vince's ear and taking on a Vince Russo like 'adopted son' role in leading WWE to better ratings, buyrates, etc. as a threat to them running the show. Where Heyman goes wrong is in the fact that he hasn't learned how to work the system yet. He knows that Vince likes to surround himself with yes-men. He knows that Vince likes reliability, his crew to be on-call at all times, etc. Yet, despite Paul's charms that are often discussed, he hasn't grown up to the point of realizing that by doing the above and playing temporarily playing by their rules, Steph and crew would have nothing to bury him in Vince's eyes. He ultimately screws himself with his actions. He may be a wrestling genius but he needs to learn how to succeed within the corporate political structure. Personally, I believe Vince should put Heyman in charge of SD exclusively with Laguna and Dreamer vs. Raw's crew of Stephanie, HHH, Hayes and Gerwitz. Make the brands truely competetive again with absolutely no writers from either team involving themselves with the other team. If he can't work within the system at all, Vince should at least give him a development territory in Philadelphia, perhaps even putting him with Gabe and ROH under the WWE umbrella. Cornette didn't work in the creative structure either but he's still beneficial to the company and the future of their product in his current role.

The one that pisses me off more than anything is Dustin Runnells not being able to use the Goldust name and gimmick. I mean, really, Vince should just give him Dustin the name to take elsewhere. Nobody will ever be able to play the Golddust role but Dustin and he added all the successful ingredients to the gimmick to get it over. I doubt very much it was creative.

If you don't like the subject and "featured article" feel of the post, just don't read it. There is no need to mock the guy for posting. He warned in the subject title that it was a long read. I hate when people obviously sit down and take time out of their lives to post something, hoping to initiate discussion, only to initiate a string of smart ass remarks.

I was thinking the same thing this past Monday night. Nova is getting reactions from the crowd because of his obnoxious mic work. Not the fitness guru gimmick. Vince and company probably think it's the gimmick. Instead of having this guy be a living, breathing, walking flashback to 1996 why couldn't they do something innovative with him. What was wrong with him being the innovator of wrestling? I feel the same way about Eugene. Actually it's a running theme in WWE right now. Gimmicks that have the potential to be interesting if done correctly, done the opposite of correct. See the arab-american gimmick

Raven, when he first came to the WWF after his WCW and ECW stints, he seemed to be in the best shape of his career. Had he not been cut short by creative and was actually put into programs with top tier talent, with his mic work, it's conceivable that he could have had a good 2-3 run as a top star. I wouldn't necessarily say WWE or World Champion but I-C or U.S Title - yes... Tazz - Vince McMahon said on the ECW DVD that he was a huge fan of Taz's character and the character that Heyman built Taz into. He had the debut victory over Kurt Angle, ending Kurt's undefeated streak. So what the hell happened? They should have went with the whole "Team Taz" fight night entrance and he should have worked programs with Rock, Benoit, etc. Even during the Invasion, fans were ready to pop huge for him and he instead got punked out by Austin. He deserved a better WWE run. RVD should have had a title run a year into his debut. Even if he was politcally out of favor, the pops he received at that time should have been an indication to cash in on him while he was a fresh face with a fresh moveset to WWE fans. That's my problem with this company. I can understand politics to a point but the main objective should be cashing in on someone while they are hot. Then bury them if need be. To refuse to make as much money from them as possible, due to political BS, is just bad business. They did this with Jericho, RVD and Goldberg really. All of these guys had mainstream crossover potential, WWE produced films, etc.

But in Benoit's case, and that's who we were speaking of, he does have workrate and the people gave the standing O because they were appreciative of the efforts he and Kurt displayed. Of course the majority of the audience would say that they were applauding the "efforts" of both men because only a portion of that audience actually speaks in smark/insider terms like "workrate" but it's a smarter audience today who know the difference between the athleticism of those guys vs. the athleticism of Heidenreich. Heidenreich may very well put forth effort each and every night, I would hope everyone on the roster does for the purpose of entertaining the fans. But it's highly doubtful that you'll ever see Heidenreich get a standing O out of sheer respect like Benoit and Angle. Hogan was cheered because he entertained people, was full of charisma and brought a genuine excitement when he appeared in an arena. He's a rare breed. There are less than a handful of people that have rivaled Hogan. There would be a different energy level say... if it was Billy Jack Haynes vs. King Kong Bundy... even though the matches themselves would probably be layed out and worked similarly. If you put two ROH guys in the Rumble 2003 match and had them wrestle the same match as Kurt and Benoit, they'd be met with indifference at first but would probably have people standing on their feet as well by the end of the match. Because of workrate.

In the case of Benoit's standing ovation at the Rumble, yes that was the fans responding in respect towards his great effort that was workrate.

Snitsky has the acne on the back that they always say is an indicator. I think it's kind of difficult to assume who is on the juice and who isn't. You'll have your obvious people for sure but sometimes the not so obvious can take you by suprise. For instance, I would have never thought that Rowdy Roddy Piper was on roids. Even when he returned to wrestling and was all cut and in shape (around the time he did They Live) I would've just assumed that he was working out harder because he wasn't freakishly big. But when you look at him from his early WWF days, he had little muscle tone, a belly, etc. I guess he had to use roids just to get to the point of looking good. He probably had difficulty putting weight and muscle mass on. So someone like Matt Hardy could very well be on roids even though he doesn't have the stereotypical 'roid look'.

Yeah, Eddie got screwed. Thanks for the details. I wasn't following the actual SD product all that much and was just going on what I read from the net.

True. I never read the official Meltzer take on this situation. Just the comments on the net in relation to it. Was it ever stated that Eddie was indeed planned to go over that night and Kurt changed that outcome? The reason I ask, for all we know, Kurt was planned all along to go over that night but they had his win come in the form of something like a belt shot, a low blow into a rollup or outside assistance. If that was the case, I don't think there is anything wrong with Kurt suggesting that he needs to look strong come into his next set of matches and Eddie should tap. I also think Kurt would rather work with people like Eddie and HBK as opposed to Big Show and Taker to get as many **** matches as he can before he hangs it up (although I do think he possibly sees something in a submission type match with Taker and could be pushing for the Mania match for that reason). He just seems to me like he'd be more about match quality in his backstage politics. Not necessarily him being the champion, etc.

His motivation in helping ROH would pretty much be the same as his reasoning for helping out ECW financially. First, it would keep TNA or whatever other organization that pops up, away from ROH talent. We've already seen how TNA has treated ROH by wanting exclusive rights to talent that worked both companies. Johnny Ace would have first dibs on whatever talent that would come along in ROH that Vince and company would be interested in for WWE. It's also conceivable that they could save the pace of WWE programming and over-saturation of PPV's by offering the occassional indie PPV. Second, it would be a place for him to send certain talents in OVW for further seasoning. Third, it would be another selling point for his 24/7 vehicle. Granted, not a large audience would be drawn in from ROH programming alone but you essentially have to build this up as "the wrestling network" and it's conceivable that you could get certain indies to pretty much sell their souls (and rights to talent) to WWE in return for television exposure. So, in the end, it would have a lot to do with the future of WWE.

I mentioned this in another ECW-WWE post but I think Vince and Co. should take on a relationship with ROH similar to the one they once had with ECW. Maybe even go as far as giving ROH a time slot on WWE 24/7. An ECW PPV would be a perfect way to begin such a relationship as they could put guys like Samoa Joe, Homicide, CM Punk, Brian Danielson, Spanky, maybe even Lo-Ki, etc. on there. In exchange, guys like Paul London, Akio, Mysterio and maybe Eddie could do one shot appearances in ROH. This way the ECW PPV isn't just built around current WWE talent that wrestled in ECW and a bunch of people that can't find work elsewhere. They could maybe do an ROH-ECW angle out of it.

Does anyone plan on typing out Meltzer's WO report? I've become quite spoiled and it would be GREATLY appreciated.

I just read this on pwinsider.com - Paul Heyman from Between The Ropes. I feel exactly like this man when I look at the current product and I'm not even from inside the company. Vince needs to just let this guy book Smackdown and leave Raw to Gerwitz, Stephanie and her right hand man and HHH. We'll see who produces a better product. What I pasted below is just his comments in relation to the current product. There are more ECW comments in the interview that I omitted from here. On what he would do if he was in charge: ‘I think there’s so many guys who are underutilized, or who are boxed in by the parameters that the current presentation of wrestling sets. You know, we’re still in the same model that we were in 1999 in this industry. That’s not healthy for the industry. I think what needs to happen is that the structure of the business or the regiment, or the regimented structure needs to completely change for some of these guys to break out. As popular as Rey Mysterio may be, I would suggest to anybody that he would be five times more popular now under different circumstances. I would say the same for Rob Van Dam. I would say the same for a lot of different guys. If you look at the roster today, there are so many different people that I would have an absolute f’in blast with just getting the most out of them and having them lose their inhibitions and accentuating the strengths and hiding the negatives. We don’t do these things as well as we could.’ On a return of the ECW Brand: ‘Yes and no. Do I think that somebody could shake up the entire industry? I hope it happens. I think it’s necessary for the health and the survival and the viability of the industry. Do I think that it will be ECW? No. I think we are all four years older. . . Time has moved on. Do I think we could ‘get the band back together’? It’s not going to be the same again. Could we do it for one night? Yeah. Could we present a ‘one night only’ or once in a great while, do a reunion show? Of course we could, and we would blow the doors off anything else that is out there today. Do I think that ECW itself could, like a phoenix, rise from the ashes? No. I don’t see how that could possibly happen. Do I think that somebody could rise from the ashes or something else should come along? Oh my god, I hope so. I think it’s so necessary for the industry. The grunge movement can’t come back. It happened already. There will not be another Nirvana. There will not be another Soundgarden that just shakes up the whole music industry. However, there will be something else. There will be a new form of hip-hop. There will be a new form of rock. There will be a new form of music that shakes up the whole industry. It just won’t be the same thing that it was the last time. That’s what I think is going to happen in this industry is that someone’s going to come along with a new concept, and they’ll shake everything to the ground again. That will be in the tradition of ECW, but it can’t be ECW.’ On the WWE Creative Team and their non-wrestling background: ‘You sit there and you say to somebody ‘Well, OK, what are we building to’ and ‘Let’s do this, and we end up with wrestler A versus wrestler B’. And you have a guy sitting there saying ‘Well, I don’t know. Let’s not talk about the match. Let’s talk about the motivation of the character.’ And of course I’ll sit there and say ‘Yeah, but what are you building to?’ Because you got to know where you are going, and then you understand how the motivation of the character leads you to the payoff. I mean, what’s the climax of this story. . . So is it frustrating to listen to a Hollywood guy say ‘Gee, I don’t want to talk about what the payoff is, I want to talk about the childhood motivation of why this character became who he is.’ Yes, it’s very, very frustrating. . . Am I frustrated by some of these people? In the visuals, yes. But per se, I never bought into the thing of ‘well, he’s not a wrestling fan so he can’t book wrestling’ or ‘he comes from Hollywood so he doesn’t understand wrestling.’ . . . So I never believed in the fact that because someone isn’t in a wrestling background they can’t write wrestling. I think that you can either write it or you can’t write it. It has nothing to do with whether you are a wrestling fan or not a wrestling fan.’ On the competition between brands when he was lead writer: ‘[t]here was legitimate competition between Raw and Smackdown because, you know, Raw had their writers; and I was the lead writer of Smackdown and it was balls to the wall. It was let’s see who had the better show and we blew them away. We blew them away quality-wise and we blew them away in terms of ratings. It was the first time that Smackdown pretty much became the ‘A’ show; and Raw, simply by the definition of losing in the competition, was becoming the ‘B’ show. I would love for that to be the case again.’ On the buildup and payoff in ECW: ‘You know, I always knew that Sabu and Taz would have a match; and I made you wait eighteen months for them to even lock up. I always knew that Tommy Dreamer would beat Raven one day, but not until the last day. And you waited two and a half years for that payoff. So, what’s the payoff; and once you understand what the payoff is, you know how to get there.’ On giving the creative team the benefit of the doubt: ‘I never want to pass a judgment like that for this reason, I had to come into the business one day, and I was given a chance by a lot of guys to implement things that were new. So if these veterans that I had the honor and privilege of working with would have said ‘Who’s this kid to tell me what to do? Who’s this kid to call a finish? Who’s this kid to give me an angle? Who’s this kid to tell me what my promo is about? Who’s this guy to produce a pay per view. He’s never taken bumps. He’s never broken his neck. He’s never done that. Who did he ever beat? Who did he ever put over? What matches has he had? When did he ever sell out Madison Square Garden? And if the guys had looked at me like that, and not given me the chance to show them a different way, then I never would have had the opportunity to be labeled all these wonderful things that people label me in this business because I never would have had the chance to succeed. I was only given the chance to succeed because these guys who had come before me gave me the chance to shake up the business, and show them different finishes, different strategies, different ways to do videos, different ways to shoot interviews. Different ways to present the product. So if I close my mind and give a myopic view of ‘Oh, he’s from Hollywood. He can’t teach me anything.’ Then I’m doing to him the greatest disservice of all, and doing it to myself as well.’ On his contract status with WWE: ‘I am under contract to them. I have some time left on it. They’ve always been very private in their dealings with me, so I’d like to respect them back in terms of how long my contract is for. Just as a matter of they’ve showed me the respect to be private, I’d like to return that favor to them. I do have some time left on my contract. I would assume that I will be working through the end of that agreement. At least I’m willing to. . . I don’t know what happens once it expires. I don’t know if they want me to stay. I don’t know if I want to stay. I don’t know yet. There is certainly time for both sides to think about it.’

Rey was my biggest point. He could have easily debuted and went the way of Ultimo Dragon without Heyman throwing him into the mix of talent that he did. I believe this was the point that the company seriously looked at Eddie as a core talent on their roster. You are correct about Benoit and Angle. They were the established feud of the SD6. I also believe throwing Chavo into this mix, rather than just using him as cruiser against Jamie Knoble at the time, helped save his WWE career from a Billy Kidman fate. Edge was also incredibly over on Smackdown shortly after the SD6. Listen, I'm a strong advocate of Heyman being on the creative team, I think I've made that clear. There were still flaws in the show when he was head of Smackdown's creative and I think that gets lost sometimes when people remember how much they were enjoying the shows then. The reason for those fond memories are the SD6 matches. I believe it was building to a payoff and we didn't have the opportunity to see what that payoff was because Heyman fell out of favor with the McMahons and Kevin Dunn and others began involving themselves in the creative process on Smackdown. Albert getting Matt Hardy's spot being an example. I think the payoff was more than likely to be Heyman building his show around those six talents. I think the matches were more or less instruments to make their talent the focus of the show and eventually they would each be placed into different scenarios and storylines.

I understand your point but I don't think Heyman really had the opportunity to prove where he was going with the whole thing. His legs were cut from under him before he had a real valid opportunity to prove what he could do. Even when he was head writer there was still a feeling that Vince, Stephanie or whoever else were still dictating the direction of certain things. For instance, Mark Henry going over someone like Matt Hardy, who was getting over at the time with Mattitude and his M'Fer. In my opinion, the SD6 were more valuable to the company in those six weeks than they were at any point afterwards. I think what he was trying to accomplish, besides the novel concept of putting great matches on television and giving quality workers the proper time to display their athleticism, was getting each of them over as WWE superstars. I feel that was accomplished.

You see, it's all an elaborate work leading into a No DQ/Falls Count Anywhere Wrestlemania tag team match with Flair and Lawler vs. Foley and HTM!!!!! God, this creative department is GENIUS!

All chants start out small. I can't think of one time where 1000 people or even several hundred were so in synch with each other that they all started the same chant in unison. It's like Rudo said, I just think you are underestimating the amount of smarts that make up WWE's audience. Especially with Mania, the weekend leading into the show and the $$$$ those people are spending for the event. Flair vs. Foley appeals to some wrestling fans. More interest is generated however by using other outlets besides their television to create interest and heat for the match. So let's just say that everything we've seen up until this point between Flair and Foley is them working an angle. All the way down to Flair's comments towards Foley in his book. It's safe to assume that the wrestling fans who purchased and read Flair's book are smart fans. Not too many casuals want to read about the business or one particular wrestler in that way. This is another example of what I mean when I say that wrestling fans are "smarter" and have more access to inside workings than in the past. WWE aren't producing kayfabed books. So pretty much WWE targeted that segment of their audience with the books. This carries over onto television with Flair making some remarks towards Foley during interviews and the announcers mentioning his comments to sell books. So now even the casuals know, if Foley and Flair meet in the ring, Flair has said some very negative things about Mick. On top of that, with the Flair punching Foley story leaking on the net, the smarts are talking about it as well. So if that story leaks out to the Meltzer's and then ends up being addressed on wwe.com it's only adding to the storytelling. It's not necessarily designed to fool any segment of your audience. You seem to think that I'm praising the infamous ill advised Russo-shoot that goes over the heads of everyone not on the Internet and exposes the business with comments like, "I'm not jobbing to you", "the writers don't have anything for me", "I'm sick of this gimmick", etc. Those were definitely targeted towards one small niche of the total audience and never worked. The scenario I described above with Flair-Foley doesn't go over anyone's head and plays to all wrestling fans. Granted, I'm not saying that WWE creative is this good but let's just assume for a moment that they are and this has all been a worked shoot. How is it harming the business and alienating one fan to appease another? Yes, in the end, the QUALITY of the product is the key to bringing back any fan, smart or mark. I would in no way dispute that nor would I encourage things like what I'm suggesting be used all the time. This all started out with me more or less being curious as to why they don't work the media and wrestling "insiders" more often. It doesn't seem that difficult to do and I wouldn't even say that it's exhausting a lot of energy even. I understand where you are coming from but I don't see what I'm suggesting as convoluted bullshit. It's just creating an illusion or even perhaps playing off of the fact that some "real" animosity exists between the two participants. Reality is a huge thing that is lacking in wrestling storyline today. Even if what I'm suggestion is the illusion of reality. They would accomplish so much if they acknowledged Stephanie and HHH's relationship on camera, HHH's obsession to be seen as the only star on Raw, their desire to overtake the company from Vince, etc. All of that would spark an interest in casuals and smarts, IMO because it's playing off of real life scenarios. If Jericho or someone makes a comment about HHH never drawing a dime in the business despite all of his tv time, the Internet goes into a fury as to whether or not it's a shoot and the casuals just take it as, "wow, Jericho doesn't like HHH and he's right, he takes up all of the tv time". It's more logical storytelling to me than someone spilling coffee on another wrestler, someone accidentally killing someone's dog, a rape turned pregnancy turned terrible tragedy, necrophilia and whatever else creative comes up with these days. Yes, you still need traditional good ol' old fashioned wrestling storytelling but throwing a bone to one segment of your audience to chew on is better than trying to pretend that they don't exist and their opinion doesn't matter.

So we are pretty much in agreement here. They underestimate the intelligence of their audience. I guess my question here would be what is your definition of a "smart" fan? Someone doesn't have to be posting on message board forums or be a subscriber to Observer to be aware of "inside workings" any more. Plenty of homes have computers out there and plenty of those people watch wrestling and may browse news sites. True, it's pro wrestlings equivalent of someone starting the wave at a stadium, I guess. Perhaps some of those people did jump on the chant just to play along. Perhaps a large percentage of those in attendence did actually know what was going on in the rumor department leading into the match. Neither of us really know. What we do know is a crappy boring match with no effort was made memorable by the crowds reaction to the rumors and behind the scenes gossip. They didn't mention on television that this would be Goldberg's last match in WWE and that Brock was quitting to go to the NFL. Yet, a good bit of that arena knew the deal. You can argue by saying that they were just blindly joining in on a chant but you really don't know, do you? Unless you conducted some sort of survey at the Garden that night. It gets through. I just don't necessarily agree. The era of the true mark is over. People are smarter now and access to insider information is easier. The audience they have right now are there loyalists, the people who will watch no matter what and I imagine plenty of those people are smart fans. If the product becomes fresh and interesting again and a character takes off in the same way a Rock or Austin did - some of them just may come back. The point I'm trying to make, that you don't necessarily get, is that plenty of those fans were also into the behind the scenes/insider stuff at the time they were watching. They may have stopped watching but that doesn't stop them from browsing a wrestling site from time to time. I know this because I work with several guys like this. I was also listening to a college radio sports show and the subject of wrestling came up. The hosts all stated they grew up watching but will no longer watch as long as Stephanie is head of creative, HHH and John Bradshaw Layfield are world champions. So, yes, they are "smart" fans, or should I say former fans? True, they may very well come back but right now they aren't watching. You stated previously that it's useless trying to do something of interest to the smart fans because they are the minority and will watch regardless. The problem with that statement is not all of them are watching any more. No... I don't have an idea that smart fans were a creation of the Internet. I wrote for newsletters and even published my own for a brief period in the early 90's. The Internet made it more accessible for others to get insider info in addition to building communities of these types of fans. It played a big part in ECW's cult following and was also, as I stated previously, a target for WWF when they were trying to overcome WCW in the Monday night ratings. They aren't lost on me. Why do you not get my point that you need to offer something of appeal to all demographics of your audience? I'm not saying "target smarts exclusively". But if you can get both the marks talking and the smart fans interested then that's only a plus, IMO. I GET IT. It still doesn't mean that there are others like him who only have a passing interest in the product right now and aren't watching it OR talking about it. Okay, take HHH out of the equation then and put JBL or someone of less influence. You aren't even mentioning it as a "fake shoot" on television. Only the Internet reports it as a possibility of being a shoot and people go off on their own little discussions about it... just as we are seeing right now with Foley-Flair... I'm not saying this is something to do often but what's the harm in trying it from time to time? It isn't about "fooling" your audience as you keep repeatedly stating. It's about generating interest within each sector of your audience.

But you are here now posting in the smartmarks forum. I know where Hunter's Quad is coming from, I just have a different opinion. Are you into the product right now. Do you set time aside each week to watch the shows? If you're like me, it's nothing to miss a Raw or Smackdown during the week. It wasn't that way in 1997 or 1998. Now, do you know of anyone who started watching wrestling with you, someone in school, that doesn't watch anymore? Would you be more inclined to watch Raw if an Internet story was posted regarding Chris Benoit "shooting on HHH during a house show in Long Island, giving him a black eye and cuts on the face. Would you tune into Raw to see HHH's condition? If it was addressed that Chris Benoit was responsible? Would you tell that friend to check it out? If they did, would they be interested in chipping in for that upcoming PPV match between the two of them?

But they already insult their audience's intelligence almost weekly because they take for granted that many of their fans are smarter than the average mark. This is painfully obvious when live audiences routinely crap on things like the Lita/Kane pregnancy or know when the swerve is coming with the Evolution breakup. When they know HHH "deosn't lose" and they chant WHAT during the supposed "serious" Arab-American angle that someone in creative probably spent a considerable amount of time writing lines for. If marks were still marks in the traditional sense they wouldn't be chanting "Baby Killer" at Gene Snitsky. They'd be concerned about Lita's health and grieving for her and Kane's loss. You say that a small "smart" portion of the MSG crowd began the Goldberg-Lesnar chants and everyone followed. Well, they became smart then. "Why is everyone chanting Nah, Nah, Nah Goodbye"? "Well, Brock is leaving for the NFL, it's been all over the Internet and this is Goldberg's last match on his contract." There are more smart fans out there then they think. The casual fan that you say they lost after the boom wasn't necessarily a mark. They were watching because cool things were happening. Because people were talking about so and so showing up in WCW or somebody doing this on Raw. They were watching to be entertained more so than "believing in the product" and you can't tell me that when they searched "WWF" or "Sunny Photos" on AOL that they didn't stumble upon Scoops site. You say that you can't credit smarts for the wrestling boom but remember this. Before that boom, Vince McMahon went on AOL chats and openly discussed the product with online fans. They took from ECW and eventually the "insider chants" of "You Sold Out" or "You f*cked up" were heard in arenas. Vince went on television and said they weren't going to insult the intelligence of their audience with "good guy vs. bad guy". Everything they are doing now while losing their audience. That small smart audience that will tune in regardless knows the product and their reactions to certain things ultimately leave an impression on the marks. "Rocky Sucks" wasn't started by the teenage girl who liked his Kid n Play hair. It's not about "fooling" them as much as it's about getting them to talk and care about the show. Their interest will carry over to the mark once they hear the supposed backstage gossip.