justcoz

Well, this is where I'm out of touch. You see, when I first heard about them bringing ECW back, my initial reaction was it was being done to put TNA in it's place. I thought they were seeing that the competition was doing something (doing it poorly) and they could type into that audience looking for an alternative product by creating their own alternative product. Within two years or so they'd have everyone from TNA and ROH signed to WWE's version of ECW eliminating the little bit of success those two companies are experiencing. Instead of people buying a TNA PPV, they'd buy an ECW PPV. Instead of people getting ROH DVD's, they'd get ECW DVD's. Instead of going to small indie shows to experience wrestling in an intimate setting, they'd go to an ECW show. I actually thought there was some logic and thought put into this.

Well, of course it will but within that and Smackdown's audience are likely people, like myself, that watch out of habit and because it's the only wrestling on a national scale that they have. I've been enjoying Smackdown lately but that's not the point. There are people that would have gladly welcomed an alternative built on many (not all) of the same principals of ECW. And when news of the new ECW officially hit things did seem promising. It was going to be like the AAA league to WWE. Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer would be in control of creative. Shane McMahon was going to be involved at one point as he was an ECW fan. And then Vince McMahon entered the picture and with him came his yes-men, Johnny Ace and WWE creative. And I didn't lose hope when Kurt Angle was brought it. Angle fit the ECW mold so that made sense. Big Show on the other hand.... well, that's when it first hit me but I figured at least we had Heyman and Dreamer on creative and maybe Heyman could make Show 2006's 911. And then... well, we all get the point. Things just keep going through the downward spiral - but I'm still watching with interest - it's just more like looking at a car wreck and hoping they pull a survivor or two from it.

Gee, I was wondering what "yes people" were then, so I'm glad you cleared it up. Thanks. Well, they are also people who tell you things because they think it's what you want to hear - even if they don't necessarily believe them to be true. Dave Lagana was an ECW Arena fan. I'm sure he knows what appealed him to the product and what their fan base enjoyed. However, to secure his position in the company, appeal to Stephanie and not ruffle the feathers of anyone else on creative, he probably tells them, Vince included, what they think Vince wants to hear. He joins in on picking on the outsider of the bunch - Paul Heyman. It's the cafeteria lunch table mentality again. When you enjoyed hanging out with someone but others harass them so you ultimately join in and cut on that person right along with them, knowing you (and they) are wrong. If ECW is renewed and they are still phasing Paul Heyman out of the creative process by that time - Heyman really needs to get in McMahon's face and express himself. What does he have to lose? He supposedly had projects outside of wrestling that he wanted to sink his teeth in and he could easily help TNA, ROH or start his own wrestling promotion with some backing. I understand there is a sense of gratitude towards Vince for financially backing ECW prior the bankruptcy but Vince has a history of only responding and changing his philosophies when challenged. Eric Bischoff did that. Vince Russo got in Vince's ear and told him that the product sucked and together they pulled influences from both Bischoff and Heyman's ECW to change the course. Vince is living in a bubble right now and being surrounded by YES-MEN is a primary reason for that. Heyman and Dreamer said ECW needed their own tapings from day one. Vince does what he wants and then says there are no ECW fans left because they aren't showing up at Smackdown tapings? Then when the ECW fan base does show up for the Philly shows it's almost like they go out of their way to display a product that they will hate and that's Heyman's fault? He has to play damage control and bring them back on ECW's side? This whole thing just baffles me. The rest of the bunch in creative, threatened by Heyman, are getting exactly what they wanted from this project and Vince is going along right with it. You can't tell me that someone isn't in Vince's ear feeding him a lot of these beliefs. I just get the vision of Kevin Dunn or someone standing in control center saying, "Listen, Vince, there are no ECW chants, these are all Smackdown fans, does ECW even have a fan base left?" It's just like I don't understand the big man fixation when Vince has made money from guys like Benoit, Guerrerro, Mysterio, Jericho, HBK, etc. Someone doesn't challenge the over 6'2 250 lbs talent requirement?

Another note from Observer regarding the DVD sales: Yes... that and Vince Russo never watched the ECW product and it was no inspiration whatsoever to the Attitude WWF era.

I don't mind the fact that they are limiting the amount of tables, chairs, weapons, etc. to just the "Extreme Rules" matches. Why do they have to announce it though? Just have most of the card have traditional wrestling matches and save the gimmick stuff for one or two matches each show. You don't have to announce that this match is "EXTREME". It seems to me that the "Extreme Rules" stuff is more about them having a way to incorporate bullshit finishes like countouts and DQ's rather than protecting the physical well being of the roster.

Or it's because Randall is in his 20's, Rob is his 30's and continuously shows unprofessional behavior. The fact that he was so over in 2002 is probably the only reason he's still employed by WWE. Randall can speak on a live mic. Rob cannot. Randall has the best look in wrestling. Rob does not. Like Randall hasn't displayed unprofessional behavior? What was he just suspended for again? RVD was pulled over with 18 grams of marijuana and will be back once the smoke clears, fines are paid and the story is no longer noteworthy. Randall's behavior was supposedly so bad that there was actual talk of never bringing him back. Randall can not speak on the live mic. He's bland. He may deliver the lines of his scripts slightly more convincingly than RVD but he's never pulled a "money" promo, the closest was probably his work with Mick Foley and that was because of Foley. Randall's best look in wrestling keeps male fans from cheering him and also does little to help protect him from the ridiculous amount of injuries he's sustained in the short time he's been with the company. He was out of action more in his three years with the company than RVD has been his entire career.

Just because you made up some arbitrary statistic of how many people smoke pot doesn't suddenly make it acceptable. You can make up statistics to prove anything: Forfty percent of people know that. I think his point was the pot was a non-issue. It's the easiest thing to poke fun of but the amount of marijuana in their possession was a minor charge at best. WWE doesn't even test for marijuana. They are worried about the harder drugs and especially the pain pill addictions. And I'm sure there concern in this case isn't necessarily that RVD and Sabu got busted with a little bit of weed. It's whether or not they had legitimate prescriptions for the vicodin and other pills and monitoring the level of their use. The pills themselves are fuel for someone like Phil Mushnick.

I would expect a quiet disciplinary action, something a verbal reprimand, warning, fine or work without pay for a period of time.

The Marine may suck but something tells me that John Cena is capable of pulling a Rock as far as making it in Hollywood.

Entourage is in danger of jumping the shark with Dom's presence. Showtime cancelled Huff and I'm really pissed off about it. Oliver Platt was great on that show, comparable to Piven on Entourage. Too bad HBO probably wouldn't pick up a cancelled Showtime series.

HUH???? You could tell that Steve Austin had charisma dating back to when he teamed with Brian Pillman. You could tell he had mic skills with his ECW promos. You could tell he had star quality from the moment he won the King of the Ring and cut the 3:16 promo. What injury are you referring to? No charisma like X-Pac and Mark Henry? The freestyling heel John Cena that was one of the highlights of Smackdown for a good year, with the throwback jerseys, the shoe pump, you can't see me/five knuckle shuffle when it was over before getting cheesy - that guy had no charisma? I remember a heel rap he did from a graveyard on Undertaker that was one of my favorite promos since Raven. Also, for the record, X-Pac could work a good match and had charisma circa NWO-early DX days. I don't consider Cena a good worker but I also think he's far from lazy. He worked his ass off at One Night Stand and he can be carried to a good match. Monday night's match with RVD was very good and I don't even think he was being carried, they just clicked together.

That match heat and "big time feel" was due to the awesome chicago fans and thier hatred for what Cena is( a poser and absolutely shity wrestler) But they weren't sitting on their hands, were they? He gets a reaction unlike anybody the business has ever seen and even though a lot of it is people who legitimately hate him for being in the position he's in, in this era where kayfabe doesn't exist, when is drawing real legit emotion from the audience a bad thing? I mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers who were dressed in his gear at the Raw show in Pittsburgh. They also ran back to their seats, taking pictures with their camera phones, when his music hit. My girlfriend was making fun of me because I wanted to leave a get together with friends to watch ECW One Night Stand and another girl at the party, someone who doesn't watch wrestling, asked me why John Cena was more important than them? That doesn't mean a whole lot except he's the star of the show right now. No, he's not a Rock, Hogan or Austin but he's the closest thing to that kind of presence currently in the company. I will say it again: Do you actually think the 20 Steelers showed up dressed the same?? They were given the Cena gear for free. I didn't catch that the first time but actually it wasn't 20 of them dressed the same. I'm not going to sit here and get all Joan Rivers on what Steelers were wearing what but it legitimately didn't look like they were just modeling perks. And there wasn't anyone on WWE staff directing them to run back to their seats like little kids, make you can't see me hand gestures and cheer like bitches. He's the star of the show. I was sitting behind them and that's who they were waiting to see.

Is this the type of stuff that Brian Gerwitz works on whenever he takes a leave from creative? CREATIVE GENIUS!

Not sure if anyone has ever sent one of these feedback things to WWE but here is their automated response. "Thanks for your email to WWE. Please allow 1-2 business days for your email to be reviewed. Please be aware that WWE does not accept ideas for scripts, screenplays, storylines, ideas, music, business proposals, marketing concepts, or for anything having to do with character development, storylines or in-ring activities. WWE does not consider or examine these materials. " I guess they have to include that so someone doesn't try to file a lawsuit for ripping off a storyline they emailed. I just thought it was a funny thought that probably 70% of the submissions that get discarded are likely better than ideas used on Raw, Smackdown and I guess now ECW. Instead of doing a Diva Search they should do a Creative Guru Search and use it primarily to make fun of net folks like us. So I'm wondering if my advice as to where to go with ECW falls into that category?

Yeah, I actually thought Roadkill made a pretty good impression on a first time viewer. And I still say they can do so much with a big mean crazy Amish character.

I just wrote a 3900 character feedback letter to WWE from their website. I'd suggest we all do the same. Not that it will make any difference in the end but if we are going to be posting our logic on message boards, may as well send it directly to WWE. They still don't have a feedback area for ECW but I sent it other the Other Comments section from the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page. Pretty much, I explained that the reason old ECW fans aren't there anymore is because they are turned off by WWE's product and how I'm the only person out of my college buddies that still watch WWE from the peak period. I explained that the third brand needs to be an alternative to Raw and Smackdown. I explained that instead of being a cut-throat political mess creatively backstage they should just allow Paul Heyman to book ECW as his baby, see if he can generate ratings and a profit and spark a competiveness among the other creative teams to put out a better product. I presented my ideal ECW roster consisting of a few old school ECW names but mostly repackaged underutilized Raw and Smackdown names and three ROH guys to consider. I explained how they can't expect a Hammerstein Ballroom audience feedback from a Smackdown crowd with a front row of kids in Rey Mysterio crowds. I pointed out how last night's crowd was more responsive to the brand. How it will take time for it to catch on but if they just let Heyman book something true to the original format, give them their own tapings so there is a more ECW atmosphere, it's very possible more ECW diehards will come back to it. The chances of this being actually read.... well, I doubt it. I kept it professional and tried not to sound too much like a smart internet loser but dammit that's what I am.

That match heat and "big time feel" was due to the awesome chicago fans and thier hatred for what Cena is( a poser and absolutely shity wrestler) But they weren't sitting on their hands, were they? He gets a reaction unlike anybody the business has ever seen and even though a lot of it is people who legitimately hate him for being in the position he's in, in this era where kayfabe doesn't exist, when is drawing real legit emotion from the audience a bad thing? I mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers who were dressed in his gear at the Raw show in Pittsburgh. They also ran back to their seats, taking pictures with their camera phones, when his music hit. My girlfriend was making fun of me because I wanted to leave a get together with friends to watch ECW One Night Stand and another girl at the party, someone who doesn't watch wrestling, asked me why John Cena was more important than them? That doesn't mean a whole lot except he's the star of the show right now. No, he's not a Rock, Hogan or Austin but he's the closest thing to that kind of presence currently in the company.

I enjoyed the show. Was it good or groundbreaking in any way? Hell no. It was the same formula as last week but quite frankly I don't understand what else are they supposed to do? They need a roster of at least ten or twelve more guys so they can have some fresh faces/matchups each week, mix things up with tag team matches, etc. Let Heyman do something like the Pulp Fiction video packages or the vignettes he would do in OVW where talent who aren't actually wrestling on the show can get some face and mic time, maybe building to their appearance on next week's show. I enjoy Sabu spotfests but they make me cringe. I like that they didn't completely bury Roadkill because I refuse to believe a crazy big Amish guy can't get over. Something like Big Show-Tommy Dreamer needs to have a slow build and they could be doing something good here. Show is kind of reestablishing himself as a legit threat Still, this was a repeat of last weeks segment. It could have benefitted from just a promo this week and another in-ring confrontation next week. Tommy needs to be yelling at Show to abuse him more because people in the arena and watchingo on tv don't know the point of this beat down. They think Dreamer is just getting his ass beat in a match until Show just stops, turns around and leaves. Glad to see them introduce the Mike Knox character. I was worried that there would be nothing special in him based on what I thought was a generic presence but I liked the brief work from him in the ring. I really wish they would realize that Kelly is just not ready to pull this type of character off on tv? She can't dance. Please save her next week by not doing the Kelly expose for the Philly crowd? There was no reason they couldn't have just left it at Mike Knox having problems controlling her exhibitionist tendencies at ringside. Sandman. I know the whole thing with the theme is just being overdone but WWE really need to just cut some deal with Metallica to get him his theme. Start a writing campaign on the website. Promise Metallica guaranteed free advertising on their site and WWE TV. I laughed a little at the segment. Sandman not smoking and not drinking a beer en route to the ring was annoying however. I'd have no problem with Edge and Lita being full-time on the ECW roster. Not sure how Edge's neck would feel about it though. They just fit in with ECW and I think Edge has more fun on the mic with maybe more freedom? RVD and Kurt Angle started slow. It takes some time to get used to Kurt's new style. I was having a difficult time hearing Joey and Tazz during this match. The Cena chant was disturbing but people warmed up to the match and it at least had a hot ending sequence. I'm guessing Angle is going heel because he's bitter about not wearing gold? Not sure why this match was given away for free like it was. They could have just had an RVD-Edge rematch. RVD has had two good match two nights in a row. I feel like I'm watching an alternative product. There is still enough WWE in it to piss me off but I'm really hoping they go full circle, let Heyman do his thing and bring in some wasted SD and Raw talent. Are the Pitbulls and Super Crazy really needed on SD? Do you really need Val Venis on Raw?

Cena's popularity with kids and women is being attributed to the increase in house show attendance and the ratings posted above definitely show that his segments gain viewers. He's drawing. At the Pittsburgh Raw taping there were Pittsburgh Steelers in his gear. I am not a John Cena fan. I'm in agreement that making him a second rate Rock impersonator and the writers taking away his edge were a big reason for a lot of the backlash. You are one of the posters that I usually agree with but I disagree here. On Smackdown, as a heel, Cena was getting pops, even against the Undertaker if I remember correctly. Even the MSG crowd at Wrestlemania 20, the same New York crowd that would douse him in toilet paper now, popped big time for his U.S. title win. So, in my opinion, the fans were turning him the same way that they turned Rock and Austin. Problem is, like WWE always does, they took the cool heel and turned him into someone trying to be cute and get catch phrases over. They took his edgy raps and turned them into gay jokes that got tired. Then they moved him from Smackdown to Raw and it was obvious to anyone that he was brought to be the star of the show and wouldn't you know here he is making gay jokes about the heels and doing Rock-like promos. That was when fans rebelled.

I've been watching wrestling since 1982, possibly longer since Baron Scicluna grabbed me from the front row at 1 years old to stop Domenic Denucci from coming after him as he stalled at ringside. I don't really remember that however. My point is that in all of my years of watching this stuff, I've never seen a reaction like John Cena. For someone to say it's Jeff Jarrett or X Pac heat is completely stupid. Jeff Jarrett couldn't have that much heat in his own "I'm bigger than HHH" fantasy. We all know that Cena is limited as a worker but the heat his mere presence gets has really helped what is creatively some boring WWE television. Hell, it even helped the ECW One Night Stand pay per view. You really did believe that they would riot if Cena won. Even this past weekend, with the ECW Arena show, not that it's something positive, but when was the last time anyone got beat up for being a Jeff Jarrett fan? It would be easy for WWE to change Cena's character, make him cooler, make him similar to the freestyle rapping heel that he was when he first got over (a role he was great at by the way) but they realize that the reactions are something special and keep him as he is which is all the more reason he has heat. They recognize that kids, women and mark adults will be into it, by the merchandise while the others boo. None the less, people pay attention and it draws. When HBK was booed, Jose Lethario was kicked to the curb and suddenly we had a cooler crotch-chopping, arrogant, Shawn Michaels working as a cool heel. The one thing that I have liked this year is the refusal to change direction with Cena. And the ECW stuff has actually managed to get him over as not being a pussy.

I was entertained by it. I was entertained by it for the most part. It would have been funnier if they cut five or seven minutes from it and left out the shit bath. Both HHH and HBK were funny playing their roles. They were just left out there for too long.

Yeah, that WCW invasion. It was when a lot of people started switching over to Raw because Nitro was getting predictible. DX talked shit on WCW's product on national television and made them look like a joke. They were both important in the tide changing. There were a bunch of elements. Austin was positioned at the top. DX were important. Vince McMahon's heel character. The three faces of Foley. The seeds were planted for all of that by Stone Cold and the HBK/HHH/Chyna version of DX leading into Wrestlemania XIV. That is when you started seeing DX t-shirts, hearing 'suck it', etc. in schools and bars. Nobody is saying that the HHH/X Pac/NAO version of DX drew more ratings than Austin-McMahon but they probably did close numbers merchandise wise and contributed to a hot period for the product.

I'm assuming you weren't around in 1998, but DX was just as hot of a ratings commodity as Stone Cold Steve Austin was and 2nd to only Austin in merchandising. Merchandise I can believe, but I doubt they drew as high ratings as Austin-McMahon. They were part of the initial resurgence in ratings. Nitro was still beating them in the ratings but anyone could see that the tide was shifting. Stone Cold was hot but so was DX when it came to seeing that the WWF was shifting gears into a more adult, less family entertainment, focus. The HHH-HBK version of DX were at the top of the card against Stone Cold for Wrestlemania XIV and were all over the media with the Mike Tyson involvement. HBK was then out and HHH brought in X Pac and I believe that segment was a ratings winner. From there, they became a babyface faction with the New Age Outlaws joining. I can understand them being labelled mid-card but I imagine those segments where they invaded WCW did some good ratings and were just as important as Austin-McMahon in getting people to see what was wrong with WCW programming and sticking with Raw when flipping channels.

Vince sounds like he has completely lost his mind? The above statement makes absolutely no sense. The ECW brand wasn't tainted. Granted I would have thought that ECW would have drawn more of it's own audience at the Smackdown tapings in Trenton and Albany but what Vince doesn't realize is that a lot of people who watched pro wrestling back then and supported ECW no longer watch BECAUSE of the WWE product. And even upon hearing news that ECW was being brought back, seeing what Vince did with WCW and ECW during the Invasion angle, many people had absolutely no faith in getting the ECW product they originally loved. So, on June 13, some of that audience likely tuned in to Sci-Fi. What they saw was something clearly not representative of the ECW they wanted. They saw a WWE product and that is where all of the negative reaction came from. No, the Hammerstein fans aren't indicative of ECW's popularity, but whatever happened to Vince listening and caring about reactions of New York fans? There is a base crowd to build from but to do that you have to present a product that resembles the product they cared about. There is nothing wrong with mixing in Raw and Smackdown talent to create that product and attempt to bring those audiences to ECW in addition to the base audience. I understand the need for Edge and Cena on the initial shows but at some point they have to let Heyman create characters and storylines to set the brand up. Vince needs to cut Paul Heyman loose, accept that they need their own tapings in intimate venues, without intervening creatively and roster-wise. Allow him to pick and choose talent from Raw, Smackdown, indies, international and developmental to work with to create an interesting product in time for December's PPV.

Those videos, despite being awful quality-wise, made me really wish this was a television taping. I know there were some vocal fans that didn't care for the show but it seems like there was at least a lot of heat for the show and the performers. I'll take a mixed chant of "This Show Sucks" and "ECW" over silent Smackdown fans looking at Sandman like he was an alien or sitting on their hands for a CM Punk debut. And if the television was in front of an ECW crowd at least it would be a meter for Vince to see what's working and what isn't, knowing that the same audience drank Heyman's Kool-Aid previously and seemingly react to things he pushes storyline wise. From everything I've heard ECW Arena is a dump but I still think the 7/4 tv needed to come from that building. Maybe they'll manage to make the Wachovia Center look intimate enough with the small audience. Hammerstein Ballroom is still the perfect venue. I know Sci-Fi will worry about the crowd chants but hopefully they'll notice that it makes for better television and just slap a Viewer Discretion - Strong Language, Adult Content, Violence tag at the beginning of the show. Wrestling really needs to have those warnings again anyway.