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justcoz

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Posts posted by justcoz


  1. From pwinsider.com - I tend to agree with these guys more than Meltzer, Keller and the gang.

     

    A MUCH LONGER RANT ABOUT THE WAY THE BENOIT STORY HAS BEEN COVERED AND HOW SOME PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR HOW THEY HAVE TRIED TO CAPITALIZE ON IT

    by Dave Scherer @ 12:09:31 PM on 7/13/2007

     

     

    Almost three weeks after the murder-suicide at the Benoit house, in sadly typical fashion the media is getting every bit of mileage out of the story, or at least their version of it, that they possibly can. For three weeks, I have seen shoddy and blatantly false reporting on the supposedly credible news channels. I have seen whores come out of the woodwork looking for their chance to spew their personal venom or further their own cause at the expense of a tragedy where three people died. There has been so much conjecture, assumption and blatant agenda pushing that I shudder now every time I see "The Benoit Story" being covered in many outlets because you know what, these people aren't covering the story any longer.

     

    No, now they are now just trying to get ratings for their TV shows or clicks for their websites and it's downright disgusting to me. How do I know that they are doing that? I have been contacted by numerous news outlets and when I don't and won't say what they want to hear, they find someone else who will. I had one conversation with an AP reporter who brought up the "wrestling deaths" list. On it were people who were, at best, indy wrestlers, part time promoters, people who died in accidents and people who had been out of wrestling for years. I told the reporter, "Why are you clouding the issue by including people on the list to make it seem like a big problem when if you just talked about the people who really fit the criteria that, in and of itself, would clearly make the point you are trying to make?" On the other end of the phone was silence. He found another reporter to comment instead.

     

    That was fine by me because it's my belief that appearing on a show or being quoted in a story that is knowingly going down a sensationalistic track or where I know that at least some of the facts will be incorrect makes me complicit to what they are doing and that will never happen. What this kind of bush league reporting does is make everyone lose any respect for the two people who were murdered. That has been totally lost in the weeks since the murder, and it's wrong. Really, really wrong. In place of respect and sympathy for Nancy and Daniel Benoit are people trying to make money and get themselves over, all at the expense of three dead people. It's downright despicable.

     

    Instead of focusing on what happened people are looking to put WWE on trial, painting a picture of company that is purely evil, which makes its supporters tell a story of one that is purely good. The way the battle lines have been drawn, people are picking sides where in truth there is no clear right or wrong here. You see people ripping WWE so of course, they have to defend themselves. What gets lost in the muck are the actual issues that should be in play here. WWE is neither the heel or the angel here. There are positives and negatives where they are concerned. Instead of looking at the big picture, the national and in same cases wrestling media just polarizes on certain things.

     

    Let's look at both sides, for once. Does WWE have some things that they could make better? For sure. They could:

     

    Change the Wellness policy to eliminate the "it's OK to use steroids if you have a doctor's note" stipulation. It's a loophole and it allows wrestlers to go to unscrupulous doctors and get drugs that they don't really need. Also, if a guy fails the test, make it public knowledge and suspend the guy for a month. There should be no more hiding a positive test from the public and allowing the guy to work unpaid.

    Change the culture of the company so that the perception is no longer there that a big body, even one lacking in talent, will get you a big push. If the company stops pushing a guy just because he's unnaturally huge, it will send a message to everyone that size alone will not get you a big payday. Plus, as history has shown, pushing overly huge guys on top has mixed results and they have made a lot of money when their top talents were "just big", like The Rock and Steve Austin.

    Add more comprehensive cardiovascular, as well as neurological, testing. What's sad here is that everyone in the media assumes and "reports" that Chris Benoit did what he is alleged to have done because of "roid rage". They do it because it is a buzzword that gets ratings and clicks, even though "roid rage" is a momentary thing, not one that lasts the better part of two days. I think it's fair to say that if people want to assume anything, it's that something snapped in his head and made him do something that no one who knew him thought he was capable of doing. It's no secret that Benoit has taken a lot of blows to the head over the years, as have many wrestlers. Comprehensive neurological testing may have found changes in his brain and could have prevented this tragedy.

    Make psychologists a part of the company's medical team. For the same reason they need to implement neurological testing, they also need to have psychologists meet with the talent periodically just to get a read on where their head is.

    But, by the same token, they have done a number of positive things to try and help the boys. They have:

     

    Implemented the Wellness Policy and have been testing regularly. They have had positives and the testing has helped. The program isn't perfect, for sure, but it's a start. If they improve elements of it, it can be even more effective.

    The company has a long standing history of helping any talent that comes forth with a substance abuse problem. All someone has to do is ask and they will get help. Expecting the company to be all knowing is just not realistic.

    They have banned some big moves in an effort to cut back on injuries. They have also instructed the talent to work more ground-based matches in an effort to cut down on injuries and wear and tear.

    So when you look at it like this, it's clear that while there is certainly room for improvement, WWE has not been asleep at the wheel either. Unfortunately, getting a balanced look at the story is just not something that is happening very often of late. But, they do happen from time to time. In a few rare cases, we have also seen some people that aren't out to "get themselves over" or "further their agenda" but rather truly care about the issues at play here. I saw one of those people yesterday.

     

    I was at the gym yesterday and saw Lance Storm on ESPN's "Outside The Lines". I have to tell you, Lance made as much sense as anyone who has commented on the Benoit tragedy yet. In fact, I put more stock in what he says than those of other experts for a number of reasons:

     

    He is well known to have never done drugs (and from personal knowledge I fully believe that to be the case).

    He is a retired (for the most part) worker and unlike most of the other experts who have been doing running commentary, he has no agenda to promote or axe to grind, he just told the truth.

    He has been around the business long enough to both know what it was like 10 years AND one year ago, so he knows how things were and how they are. TMZ ran a really sensationalistic story yesterday where Terri Runnels talked about "Soma Comas". Let me tell you this. 10 years ago, a lot of guys were using Somas. That is the truth and I got to see some of the effects up close and personal. 5 years ago, less guys were using them. Today is their still use? Sure, some guys are still doing them, and other pain pills. Only a fool would argue otherwise, but writing a story about Soma Comas as if it's happening today the way that it was 10 years ago is like talking about Bill Clinton as if he were still the president. Unlike Runnels, who hasn't been around WWE for years, Storm talked from legitimate experience, and did so currently

    The key points he made were that the WWE Wellness policy loophole that allows guys to take steroids if they have a doctor's note. He also said that far too often, guys in the business convince themselves that the only way that they can live with the rigors on the road is by taking pain pills and other drugs. He said it makes him angry that people say that they need to take drugs to deal with the rigors of the road. He said it's a crock. He pointed out that WWE now has doctors at all the shows and has top of the line medical equipment and tests there for the wrestlers. In essence, he said that while WWE is accountable for their workers, they are also accountable for themselves. In the end, they take drugs because they say they need to take drugs and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

     

    In the end, that is what it comes down to. Everyone involved, WWE and the wrestlers, has a role in what happens to the workers. You just can't pin the blame on one side or wrap what happened at the Benoit home up in a nice little package with a bow because there is far more to what happened than that.

     

    Yesterday, someone got it and my hat is off to Lance Storm and ESPN for not taking the easy out. It was a welcome change from the garbage reporting that other news outlets have been doing of late. Unfortunately, since he didn't sell what the media whores wanted him to, that will probably be the last time we hear from him.

     

    Dave was right on until the Lance Storm part. Terri was in the WWE locker room up until April 2004. Around the same time Lance left...so its irresponsible to say she has no idea about todays WWE and Lance does. Didnt Eugene just go into a Soma Coma just a year and a half ago? A current WWE wrestler?

     

    And she was probably referring to something from 1999 for all we know. Or maybe not. Neither of us know. Eugene did go into a soma coma and was immediately taken off the road and put into rehab. That was also before the wellness program was implemented. Again.. what exactly is the company supposed to do to ensure that a few guys on their roster aren't abusing drugs, prescription or recreational, besides test them? And one guy isn't indicative of the entire roster.

     


  2. He brings the list up because there is over ONE HUNDRED dead wrestlers, dummy. It's kind of something that should be talked about, ya know?

     

    i know what your saying, but we have seen his list enough times, its beaten into our heads everytime he appears on TV

     

    Maybe it needs to be beaten into some people's heads because obviously it's not getting through.

     

    Let me also point out that he's had two lists. The first one was personal to him - 25 wrestlers he's been in the ring with who are dead now.

    The newer list that's more populated is of all the wrestler casualties over the past while.

     

    Because 25 dead wrestlers isn't enough for the media - 104 is much more sensational even if it includes deaths that aren't relevant to the subject. It's all in the number.

     


  3. I think Lashley will be fine once he gets smaller - which will happen soon I think. I'd like to see him as a heel with a mouthpiece though. Put Ron Simmons, Coach or Teddy Long with him. I don't know. I just find it funny that Shelton Benjamin (and I'd like to see him and Lashley work together more, that would be a good feud) was lost with creative because he supposedly couldn't cut a promo, yet, in every backstage segment they give him, he shows 100 times more personality than Lashley. I guess they forgive Lashley since HE'S HUGE.


  4. From pwinsider.com - I tend to agree with these guys more than Meltzer, Keller and the gang.

     

    A MUCH LONGER RANT ABOUT THE WAY THE BENOIT STORY HAS BEEN COVERED AND HOW SOME PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR HOW THEY HAVE TRIED TO CAPITALIZE ON IT

    by Dave Scherer @ 12:09:31 PM on 7/13/2007

     

     

    Almost three weeks after the murder-suicide at the Benoit house, in sadly typical fashion the media is getting every bit of mileage out of the story, or at least their version of it, that they possibly can. For three weeks, I have seen shoddy and blatantly false reporting on the supposedly credible news channels. I have seen whores come out of the woodwork looking for their chance to spew their personal venom or further their own cause at the expense of a tragedy where three people died. There has been so much conjecture, assumption and blatant agenda pushing that I shudder now every time I see "The Benoit Story" being covered in many outlets because you know what, these people aren't covering the story any longer.

     

    No, now they are now just trying to get ratings for their TV shows or clicks for their websites and it's downright disgusting to me. How do I know that they are doing that? I have been contacted by numerous news outlets and when I don't and won't say what they want to hear, they find someone else who will. I had one conversation with an AP reporter who brought up the "wrestling deaths" list. On it were people who were, at best, indy wrestlers, part time promoters, people who died in accidents and people who had been out of wrestling for years. I told the reporter, "Why are you clouding the issue by including people on the list to make it seem like a big problem when if you just talked about the people who really fit the criteria that, in and of itself, would clearly make the point you are trying to make?" On the other end of the phone was silence. He found another reporter to comment instead.

     

    That was fine by me because it's my belief that appearing on a show or being quoted in a story that is knowingly going down a sensationalistic track or where I know that at least some of the facts will be incorrect makes me complicit to what they are doing and that will never happen. What this kind of bush league reporting does is make everyone lose any respect for the two people who were murdered. That has been totally lost in the weeks since the murder, and it's wrong. Really, really wrong. In place of respect and sympathy for Nancy and Daniel Benoit are people trying to make money and get themselves over, all at the expense of three dead people. It's downright despicable.

     

    Instead of focusing on what happened people are looking to put WWE on trial, painting a picture of company that is purely evil, which makes its supporters tell a story of one that is purely good. The way the battle lines have been drawn, people are picking sides where in truth there is no clear right or wrong here. You see people ripping WWE so of course, they have to defend themselves. What gets lost in the muck are the actual issues that should be in play here. WWE is neither the heel or the angel here. There are positives and negatives where they are concerned. Instead of looking at the big picture, the national and in same cases wrestling media just polarizes on certain things.

     

    Let's look at both sides, for once. Does WWE have some things that they could make better? For sure. They could:

     

    Change the Wellness policy to eliminate the "it's OK to use steroids if you have a doctor's note" stipulation. It's a loophole and it allows wrestlers to go to unscrupulous doctors and get drugs that they don't really need. Also, if a guy fails the test, make it public knowledge and suspend the guy for a month. There should be no more hiding a positive test from the public and allowing the guy to work unpaid.

    Change the culture of the company so that the perception is no longer there that a big body, even one lacking in talent, will get you a big push. If the company stops pushing a guy just because he's unnaturally huge, it will send a message to everyone that size alone will not get you a big payday. Plus, as history has shown, pushing overly huge guys on top has mixed results and they have made a lot of money when their top talents were "just big", like The Rock and Steve Austin.

    Add more comprehensive cardiovascular, as well as neurological, testing. What's sad here is that everyone in the media assumes and "reports" that Chris Benoit did what he is alleged to have done because of "roid rage". They do it because it is a buzzword that gets ratings and clicks, even though "roid rage" is a momentary thing, not one that lasts the better part of two days. I think it's fair to say that if people want to assume anything, it's that something snapped in his head and made him do something that no one who knew him thought he was capable of doing. It's no secret that Benoit has taken a lot of blows to the head over the years, as have many wrestlers. Comprehensive neurological testing may have found changes in his brain and could have prevented this tragedy.

    Make psychologists a part of the company's medical team. For the same reason they need to implement neurological testing, they also need to have psychologists meet with the talent periodically just to get a read on where their head is.

    But, by the same token, they have done a number of positive things to try and help the boys. They have:

     

    Implemented the Wellness Policy and have been testing regularly. They have had positives and the testing has helped. The program isn't perfect, for sure, but it's a start. If they improve elements of it, it can be even more effective.

    The company has a long standing history of helping any talent that comes forth with a substance abuse problem. All someone has to do is ask and they will get help. Expecting the company to be all knowing is just not realistic.

    They have banned some big moves in an effort to cut back on injuries. They have also instructed the talent to work more ground-based matches in an effort to cut down on injuries and wear and tear.

    So when you look at it like this, it's clear that while there is certainly room for improvement, WWE has not been asleep at the wheel either. Unfortunately, getting a balanced look at the story is just not something that is happening very often of late. But, they do happen from time to time. In a few rare cases, we have also seen some people that aren't out to "get themselves over" or "further their agenda" but rather truly care about the issues at play here. I saw one of those people yesterday.

     

    I was at the gym yesterday and saw Lance Storm on ESPN's "Outside The Lines". I have to tell you, Lance made as much sense as anyone who has commented on the Benoit tragedy yet. In fact, I put more stock in what he says than those of other experts for a number of reasons:

     

    He is well known to have never done drugs (and from personal knowledge I fully believe that to be the case).

    He is a retired (for the most part) worker and unlike most of the other experts who have been doing running commentary, he has no agenda to promote or axe to grind, he just told the truth.

    He has been around the business long enough to both know what it was like 10 years AND one year ago, so he knows how things were and how they are. TMZ ran a really sensationalistic story yesterday where Terri Runnels talked about "Soma Comas". Let me tell you this. 10 years ago, a lot of guys were using Somas. That is the truth and I got to see some of the effects up close and personal. 5 years ago, less guys were using them. Today is their still use? Sure, some guys are still doing them, and other pain pills. Only a fool would argue otherwise, but writing a story about Soma Comas as if it's happening today the way that it was 10 years ago is like talking about Bill Clinton as if he were still the president. Unlike Runnels, who hasn't been around WWE for years, Storm talked from legitimate experience, and did so currently

    The key points he made were that the WWE Wellness policy loophole that allows guys to take steroids if they have a doctor's note. He also said that far too often, guys in the business convince themselves that the only way that they can live with the rigors on the road is by taking pain pills and other drugs. He said it makes him angry that people say that they need to take drugs to deal with the rigors of the road. He said it's a crock. He pointed out that WWE now has doctors at all the shows and has top of the line medical equipment and tests there for the wrestlers. In essence, he said that while WWE is accountable for their workers, they are also accountable for themselves. In the end, they take drugs because they say they need to take drugs and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

     

    In the end, that is what it comes down to. Everyone involved, WWE and the wrestlers, has a role in what happens to the workers. You just can't pin the blame on one side or wrap what happened at the Benoit home up in a nice little package with a bow because there is far more to what happened than that.

     

    Yesterday, someone got it and my hat is off to Lance Storm and ESPN for not taking the easy out. It was a welcome change from the garbage reporting that other news outlets have been doing of late. Unfortunately, since he didn't sell what the media whores wanted him to, that will probably be the last time we hear from him.

     

     

     

     


  5. Personally, I don't necessarily trust Keller and Meltzer's views for one simple reason. Prior to the Benoit tragedy they achieved their greatest notoriety during the Vince McMahon steroid trial. Meltzer was all over tv then too. Seeing this story escalate, with Astin turning into another Zahorian deal, the business and Vince McMahon going before congress, etc. is $$$$ to them. They have no love lost for Vince because he consistently discredits their opinions and shuts them off to access to talent. I'm not saying my thoughts are necessarily true but I just find it ironic.

     

    I'm not pro WWE. I'm personally more bothered by the idea of the company pushing Batista and Lashley, hell even putting Snitsky on tv, than Matt Hardy or Ken Kennedy's opinions. I expected to see smaller bodies and less of a focus on size after Eddie died. It didn't happen and I do hold them accountable for that. They need to improve upon the loopholes of the Wellness Program, add psychiatric counseling to it, cycle the tours and, most importantly, Vince needs to get over his fascination of big guys, ideally he needs to just step down completely.

     

    I just have a problem with people not realizing it's not the rock n roll locker room atmosphere that it was in the 80's or the 90's boom period. Yeah, you can point to Eddie, Chris and Rey as modern era examples but they are also from the 90's core of talent that did ghb, ecstacy, drank alcohol, popped pills and roided up hoping to main event Wrestlemania someday. I really do wanna think that the younger guys in the locker room are more responsible than that and I read things that indicate that they are playing Madden after the shows rather than painting the town Horsemen style.

     

    Keller and Meltzer are very anti WWE anyhow just read anything they put out about the product.......

     

    You'll never convince some people that Meltzer isn't the end all be all beacon of wrestling knowledge either....you know he's not always right either.

     

    There are a ton of personal agenda's involved in this not just the couple of current WWE guys who spoke on their sites.

     

    Why in the world would they be "very anti WWE"? Do you know what would happen to them if WWE falls?

     

    They would feel like they took down the man and the empire that has labeled their work as a joke for the past twenty years? And like someone said, Meltzer could finally have the MMA Observer.

     


  6. On Dan Abrams Live on MSNBC last night, Marc Mero responded to Ken Kennedy and Gregory Helms' criticism of his comments on the Benoit case, here's the clip from that show:

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKN7Hr0cX50

     

     

    And that right there, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am so against that Ken Kennedy posting, as well as the same sort of stuff from guys like Helms, Hardy, and so on. This is a very thin line WWE is walking right now, and it would be best not to produce extra ammunition that could be used against them.

     

    I still don't understand how anyone can totally take up for guys on the WWE payroll spouting off their opinions about all of this on their BLOGS AND WEBSITES, and totally discredit any former worker who is taking this opportunity to speak out. Marc Mero has been working since what, 1990? Is it really hard to believe his list? I'd be willing to bet that you could take any number of workers that have been working for as long as Mero and they'd have a list something like that as well. At least he's putting the thought in to actually make the list, and present it to everyone. But, you know, whatever the fuck, it's fine. I just don't get it is all.

     

    And let's say that, just in theory, that every single former WWE worker is ONLY speaking out because they're bitter, or they want a few more minutes of exposure, or maybe they even want to make a few quick bucks off of this horrible tragedy.

     

    You know what I think of that if true (and I don't believe that for a second)?

     

    I simply don't give a shit. No matter the reason behind them coming out, and no matter how scummy some of those reasons could be, I simply don't care. At least it's bringing all of the problems to the mainstream. It's only then, when the media grabs hold of it and sticks with it, that any changes will ever take place. I think everyone can agree that changes do indeed need to take place, and WWE sure isn't going to do anything without some sort of forced push, and the media and the government isn't going to do anything on their own. So if it takes a bunch of greedy, exposure hungry ex-WWE workers to come out like this in order to clean up the wrestling industry and to save some lives, then fine, so be it. As long as they're not spouting off flat out lies, and that would be very easy to check into, then let them go at it.

     

    Just imagine if Hardy and Kennedy had to answer questions from an interviewer while wildly towing the company line. It would be a disaster.

     

    I wish WWE would send their wrestlers out there to comment. I don't think it would be a disaster because I don't see Hardy, Kennedy or Helm's comments as towing the company line. Towing the company line in my opinion would be keeping their mouths shut because that's what the company wants their workers to do in regards to the Benoit story.

     

    If current contracted talent got on there and talked about how the road schedule isn't as bad as it used to be, how they have doctors backstage taking their blood pressure and doing cardivascular tests, how their drug usage is monitored, how they are instructed to work a safer ring style and how they've had surgeries paid for by the company and get time off when they ask - the media won't want to hear from them because the sensationalism from the story is gone. They would rather hear from someone who hasn't been in a locker room in five to ten years talk about guys taking handful of somas.

     

    So let me get this straight.... if someone that is currently on the road with WWE says that things really aren't that bad - they are towing the company line? What if they just believe things really aren't that bad? What if Helms, Hardy and Kennedy have a better grasp on things than guys that came in 10-15 years ago? Is it fair for them to be stereotyped into the media's version of the druggie out of control wrestling business?

     

    I have no problem with Marc Mero really. I don't think his personal agenda is a bad one. He's trying to help people. I just don't think he has any credibility in discussing the current business. It's obvious that he quotes websites and the Observer when asked about current issues because he's not there to know anything about their testing or the backstage environment. Even Vince Russo said that it was a completely different world than it was in 1999 when he returned a few years back and that was before Eddie died and before they implemented the wellness program.

     

    Vince needs to stop pushing big guys. That's what it comes down to. That stereotype of a WWE Superstar needs to end so guys don't feel the need to make personal choices that harm them to fit that image. I don't think government has to step in to regulate anything. They've made changes on their own accord - partly due to Eddie's death unfortunately - they just need to make enhancements to those changes, police the drug usage and prescriptions better, in the wake of this incident. It's as simple as that.


  7. When discussing something, charisma is more important than actually being intelligent and well-informed.

    It is if you want to get over with the easily impressionable.

     

    Yea, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The uninformed masses would be better served to hear from someone who might not be a great talker, but knows what the fuck they're talking about (Meltzer). But then you run into the problem of those people not hearing what they don't want to hear. That the wrestling business they're such huge marks for is seriously flawed and in need of an overhaul. Or that the wrestlers they're infatuated with are greatly flawed, licentious human beings. These people are recalcitrant to the truth, and instead, give credence to the word of a guy solely because he can cut a quality wrestling promo! It truly is a perfect example of people elevating the celebrities they see on TV on a pedestal, where their word is gold and where they can do no wrong. It's so hilariously lacking in any sort of reason or wisdom.

     

    Your vocabulary is excellent but I really think you're reading too much into everything. I don't think anyone here is such a mark for the business or the performers that we are unable to comprehend the fact that they are flawed. The industry isn't perfect and the personalities do have issues like drug dependency. It's just not anywhere near what it used to be. The boys have changed and you're dealing with a publicly traded corporation now.

     

    The Wellness Policy was the right thing to do and it sucks that it took Eddie dying to make it happen. It also sucks that prior to Benoit dying they also seemingly made it less strict. Guys that had lost size, were suddenly big again. Remember Vince making fun of Randy Orton when he was small? Chris Masters too. Remember how different Snitsky looked when they started testing - then suddenly he was a monster again.

     

    Let's remember that Chris Benoit didn't drop dead of a heart attack here. He didn't overdose. HE LOST HIS F'N MIND and until toxicology comes back people really can't knock the Wellness Program - although I do think he's going to have a ton of shit in his system and it was ok'd in the testing because he had a prescription. That's an obvious problem with the testing that needs corrected but also has its complexities. Vince getting a boner for big guys is the company's biggest problem right now. It's the thing that has to be changed so guys don't feel the need to roid up or do growth hormone for size. Then again I just heard that Johnny Grunge was on steroids so I have no freaking idea who the hell juices anymore! Forming a union and getting health care is something the boys have to stand up for and they don't. They have never been able to.

     

    My problem with Meltzer and Alvarez on talk shows is, with all of their knowledge, with all of their supposed insider information, they have absolutely nothing new to bring to the table in the discussion. It doesn't have anything to do with their lack of charisma. You would just think that guys that write about this stuff for a living would have more interesting things to say or points to make to educate the Nancy Grace's of the world. Meltzer knows in particular so much about the Benoit timeline leading into the murder/suicide, his mental state in weeks prior, how hard the deaths of Chris' friends hit him, yet he just goes on there and answers steroid questions. I don't know. I just think Meltzer and Keller are still wrapped up in the fact that Vince walked on steroid charges in the 90's and are salivating at the possibility of things going to the next level.


  8. Personally, I don't necessarily trust Keller and Meltzer's views for one simple reason. Prior to the Benoit tragedy they achieved their greatest notoriety during the Vince McMahon steroid trial. Meltzer was all over tv then too. Seeing this story escalate, with Astin turning into another Zahorian deal, the business and Vince McMahon going before congress, etc. is $$$$ to them. They have no love lost for Vince because he consistently discredits their opinions and shuts them off to access to talent. I'm not saying my thoughts are necessarily true but I just find it ironic.

     

    I'm not pro WWE. I'm personally more bothered by the idea of the company pushing Batista and Lashley, hell even putting Snitsky on tv, than Matt Hardy or Ken Kennedy's opinions. I expected to see smaller bodies and less of a focus on size after Eddie died. It didn't happen and I do hold them accountable for that. They need to improve upon the loopholes of the Wellness Program, add psychiatric counseling to it, cycle the tours and, most importantly, Vince needs to get over his fascination of big guys, ideally he needs to just step down completely.

     

    I just have a problem with people not realizing it's not the rock n roll locker room atmosphere that it was in the 80's or the 90's boom period. Yeah, you can point to Eddie, Chris and Rey as modern era examples but they are also from the 90's core of talent that did ghb, ecstacy, drank alcohol, popped pills and roided up hoping to main event Wrestlemania someday. I really do wanna think that the younger guys in the locker room are more responsible than that and I read things that indicate that they are playing Madden after the shows rather than painting the town Horsemen style.


  9. Why? Because they entertain you? Entertainment has more value to you than truth?

     

    Wouldn't those individuals currently in the locker room know more about the current situation than someone that hasn't been in WWE since the late 90's? Kennedy and Matt Hardy are supposedly two guys in a crop of younger talent that aren't the partying type, on roids or recreational drugs. No, I can't sit here and say that they are 100% clean but it's common knowledge that there is a huge difference in a WWE locker room in 2007 vs. a WWE locker room in 1985 or 1998.

     

    It's a corporate structure where they have to arrive on time, dressed a certain way and behave a certain way. Yes, there are loopholes in the Wellness Program that need to be erased but there is still a program in place. Their drug usage is monitored - it just needs to be monitored better. The road schedule has been lightened up from the Hogan era. Can it be improved still? Possibly. They instead decided to tone down the in-ring style and bring things back to a traditional wrestling style rather than big bumps and highspots.

     

    Now if they would just stop pushing guys due to size - I'd feel better with my argument!

     

    The 'dead wrestler' list is full of talent from the 80's and 90's which were completely different scenes. It was an industry problem that went beyond McMahon. I see nothing wrong with current talent coming out against the media attack and against the perception that all wrestlers are out of control. Kennedy expressed his thoughts on the testing and lack of health benefits and his points were fine. Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe there is a difference between the new generation of guys and the older generation? That maybe they too realize that a lot of the guys they grew up watching and admiring as kids - that helped them in the locker room - are dead and they don't want to end up like them?

     

    And I don't see how anyone would suspect a contracted WWE talent to come out by themselves, in a national forum, and push for a union, health benefits, reduced road schedule, etc. It's not something that someone is going to post on a blog. There has to be a collected movement among the talent and they are never going to have the balls to come together and make it happen.


  10. Vince isn't at fault for all of the deaths, but because the guy wasn't under contract at the time of his death doesn't mean that Vince is absolved of all blame. For many of the guys on that list, the drugs and shit that they messed their bodies up with happened while they were on the road with the WWF/E. It's like, a guy buys heroin from the same drug dealer for 5 years, then switches to a different drug dealer and dies a month later. Even if he wasn't going to the first guy anymore, he still holds the majority of the blame because he gave him the stuff that helped deteriorate his body. I'm not calling Vince a drug dealer, but the point is, a lot of it is happening under his watch.

     

    Vince can't be responsible for an individual choice and the lifestyle they choose. What... because he likes big guys? Yeah, that pisses me off too, it's absolutely moronic and shows just how out of touch he is with the business but he's not killing anybody. He's just being an idiot and pushing guys that offer nothing but size like Snitsky. They implemented the Wellness Program after Eddie died. If modern day backstage at WWE was like the LA metal scene of the 80's or ECW's locker room in the 90's - then, yes, you'd have a point. It's out of control. But it's a corporate environment instead. They have a dress code. They can't even play frigging video games. The young guys on the roster are by all accounts not the partying types. So what this means, if there is any abuse, it's when these guys are on their own time, battling their own demons. All Vince can do at this point is make some necessary changes to the Wellness Program, perhaps cycle the touring schedule and maybe provide psychiatric counseling to determine if anyone is having problems with the strain on their bodies, the traveling, etc. Perhaps offer a pension so old wrestlers stop commiting suicide or partying too much but who knows if that would work. Beyond that... what does he have to do? Have contracted talent escorted 24/7 to make sure they aren't abusing their bodies? He's already put guys like Regal and Eddie into rehab. He gave Benoit time off. He even fired Kurt Angle.

     

    You compared him to a drug dealer? Like Steve Blackman said to Marc Mero - it's not like the WWE is walking around with a platter of pills and steroids telling the talent to take them. The guys in the 80's partied like rock stars and took roids on their own accord thinking they had to be big like Hogan - because of that you have a lot of dead wrestlers from the 80's. For much of the 90's, after the steroid trial, guys in WWF would get in trouble if they tested positive for something as insiginifcant as pot. Meanwhile, the other companies, ECW and WCW were full of drugs including roids in WCW. I would almost venture to guess that Ted Turner, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman and Tod Gordon are just as liable for these deaths as Vince is. How many dead people do you see when you watch old episodes of ECW, Nitro or even World Class. Absolutely nothing to do with Vince.

     

    Vince was foolish to stop testing then but they were nearly out of business and losing talent to lesser road schedules and no drug testing. Now he's the sole survivor in the business and under all the scrutiny for all of these deaths?


  11. I'm pretty sure guys like Scotty 2 Hotty and Funaki had/have pretty gainful employment with the WWE and I highly doubt they juice.

    How do you know? You tested them yourself?

     

    Everyone from New Jack to Sandman to fucking Tammy Sytch has heavily roided at some point or another. You can't say "this person's not using" just by looking at them.

     

    Proof in that Gregory "Ducklegs" Helms was named on that doctors list of people taking HGH a few months back that was all the rage. I don't look at Helms and think prototypical roid user.

     

    Or when Jamie Noble got fired for the roid needle in his ass

     


  12. You know, although it's doubtful, I really really hope the toxicology report comes back on Benoit showing he had no steroids and no drugs in his system. But the sad (and irritating) thing is that Nancy Grace and Hannity and all the others will just focus on something else, like brain trauma caused by too many headbutts or something. It can't be just cut and dry that Benoit was psycho.

     

    Why do you hope that happens? Stuff like this is what really makes me laugh. You're so caught up in trying to protect your precious wrestling that you're coming up with anything you can to try to ignore what is really going on.

     

    So if Benoit was not on anything, that means everything is fine and dandy? I'd rather see something be done to stop more guys from dying than hope and pray that Benoit wasn't on anything so that we can keep watching under the illusion that everything is A OK. Drugs and steroids are a major problem in this business and you'd have to be a fucking retard to think otherwise.

     

    Drugs are a problem everywhere.......I'd like to see your response to say the music industry or the acting field. It's like people are trying to blame Vince for the problems the industry has always had.

     

    Just because he is the top dog doesn't mean that's his problem. That would be like trying to come down on the top money making label for what happens when a musician dies.

     

    Some people are way to caught up in their hate of the WWE and Vince aswell........it goes both way yes some people want to protect wrestling but other people want to put the WWE out of business it's pretty ridiculous on both sides.

     

    What the fuck does that even mean? Are you honestly comparing actors/musicians to WWE employees? That is two completely different fields.

     

    The fact that he is the top dog means that it is precisely his problem. Guys are dying under his watch. He runs the company and he owns everyone in it and as such, he has the power to put an end to any kind of drug/steroid/HGH abuse should he choose to.

     

    You know what some people are too caught up in? Their blind defense of the WWE. No, all of the drug problems in wrestling aren't their fault, but guys are dying left and right and instead of admitting there's a problem, everyone is scurrying about looking for fucking dumb ass reasoning for why the industry is just fine.. "OH MAYBE DRUGZ WERENT INVOLVED SEE EVERYTHING IS OK WRESTLING IS FINE!1!".

     

    Guys are going to keep dying unless changes are made. If you're OK with that then by all means, have fun watching.

     

    The thing is very few of these people actually died under Vince's watch. Rick McGraw, Owen Hart, Russ Haas, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit were the only ones under WWE contract at the time of their deaths. Guys on that list like Hercules Hernandez, Rick Rude, Road Warrior Hawk and Mr. Perfect were probably on roids before they ever got called up to the WWF. Ditto for Benoit and Eddie who bulked up in WCW and continued bulking up after they had already secured their WWF spot. Vince had nothing to do with Mr. Perfect waking up in the morning and doing a line of coke. Rick Rude took GHB for his own reasons. Chris Benoit, Kerry Von Erich and Mike Awesome killed themselves for their own reasons. Names that you are seeing floating around on these 'dead wrestler lists' like Gino Hernandez, Chris Adams and Art Barr never had anything to do with Vince McMahon or steroids. Guys like Bossman, Earthquake, Yokozuna and Andre were obese and had other health problems. It's also funny when they list murders like Dino Bravo and Bruiser Brody or accidents like Joey Marella, JYD, Owen and Adrian Adonis.

     

    It's not defending Vince. He has the power to make the lives of these guys better. If you are going to monitor their drug usage he should also give them health insurance, have different touring groups throughout the year and some sort of pension. The way I see it - if you are a wrestler and you make it to the big show - even if it's just for a cup of coffee, you should be taken care of for life. VINCE NEEDS TO DO THIS. Hell, I think the talent right now, should get together and strike if they don't get this treatment. Now is the time to do it with the media spotlight. But they won't because they've never been able to get together on that issue. What would the company do if the wrestlers showed up for a Raw/Smackdown super taping and threatened to not work unless their demands were met? And what would the company do when the media got a hold of THAT story?

     

    Where my issue is the fact that everyone is screaming for a change to save lives. The schedule is already lighter than it was in the 80's. The backstage environment is almost corporate according to Ted Dibiase, not the rock n roll partying lifestyle that they lived in the 80's and 90's. The agents, the dress code, etc. It was all done for a reason. Many of the younger guys like Edge, Shelton Benjamin, CM Punk, Elijah Burke and Johnny Nitro are pretty much considered nerds. I remember reading about Hulk Hogan being shocked that nobody went out for a beers and instead played video games. The deaths that we are seeing are from another era. I do take exception to the fact that they should have learned with Eddie's death. They should've realized that they had a generation of younger guys influenced by HBK, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit and Eddie and that size needed to be phased out. They didn't and even in Benoit's death and the steroid scrutiny, it's so discouraging to see Snitsky on Raw or Lashley main eventing (although they both look smaller).


  13. Also from the Observer:

     

    The latest sign in what insiders are seeing as the eventuality of Stephanie and HHH running the company with Shane as more of a P.R. figurehead over the long-term is Stephanie has not only taken over the talent side, but now is overseeing the web site. There has always been a major philosophical difference regarding the site between Stephanie & HHH, who want it to be nothing but a place to sell merchandise and for storyline advancement, and Shane, who feels that pretending wrestling is real on the web site and not delivering real news, when every other wrestling web site does, makes you a laughing stock. The problem is, like so many things, Vince goes back-and-forth depending on how the wind is blowing. But with Stephanie put in charge of overseeing the site, run by Michael Cole, it is the Stephanie/HHH vision that has won out. Kevin Dunn had been in charge of the site, and he still will run it from a business standpoint, setting the budget, hiring and firing, but Stephanie will be setting the creative and reporting direction and will be in charge of throwing anything out that is seen as compromising characters or storylines. Cole will be running day-to-day operations of the site. Chris Chambers, who was hired by run the site, has been forced out of the company. He had been out of power for the most part for around a year. The feeling is that Shane and Stephanie will be publicly portrayed as brother and sister running the business, but Stephanie will have all the real power. Shane will be the McMahon who attends business meetings and represents the company to the public. The gist is, his strong suit is that he's very personable and gets along with people well. Vince has always used the good cop/bad cop routine, for example, right now, using John Laurinaitis in the bad cop role. Stephanie isn't bad as far as representing the company, but Shane is better socially and Stephanie is the one more like Vince when it comes to business and business decisions

     

     

    This bothers me because it's really ass backwards. Stephanie has done nothing in the five or six years she's been in charge of creative to show that she's capable of running the show. They really haven't had one money producing angle creatively. Shane deserves an opportunity to work that role for awhile. It would make sense for both of the kids to have an opportunity to work every capacity within the company. I actually think that a combo of Shane and HHH would produce a really good product. It's been documented that Shane is really into MMA and UFC while HHH is big on old school wrestling. More reality and a back to the traditional basics approach to the product would seem like the way to go. It would seem that it's best for Stephanie to move into the PR type role and take over Vince and Linda's role of the media representative of the company. I think the media would eat up the fact that a woman is representing a male dominated industry and there would be a lot of attention to the story of daddy's little girl growing up learning the business from her dad and being surrounded by such strong personalities with all of that testosterone.

     

    Christ, couldn't they at least go with the original plan and let Shane run ECW just to see how he does? Do all three shows have to be EXACTLY the same?


  14. Just a reminder to those that'll watch, I think the WSX marathon starts after this goes off.

     

    Yea I'll probably check it out just because I'm a fan of Human Tornado.

     

    Is this a joke? Are you him? I didn't think he had any fans unless your a paid audience member at a WSX show. He's terrible and a very sloppy worker with no look.

     

     

    Um... he has quite an interesting look actually and someone like Brian Gerwitz would probably have a field day writing for him. He's entertaining and no he's never going to main event Wrestlemania but he's one of maybe ten guys from WSX that I think WWE should go after when their contracts go up. Tornado, Evans, Sydal, Hart/Cross, Team Dragon Gate and maybe Keepin it Gangsta. A lot of those guys are too small and not exactly 'WWE style workers' but you could mix and match them and totally reignite a tag team division within the three brands.


  15. WWE 24/7 has 35,000 subscribers on a monthly basis, which Dave notes is pretty low.

     

    I would love to have this but Time Warner or DirecTV doesn't carry it here. Hard to get subscribers.

     

     

    They could also push subscriptions harder on their TV. There's no reason they couldn't run WWE 24/7 Classic Clips or something. I know they do those This Moment in Wrestling History clips but those are short and really don't push that particular month's 24/7 programming. They could even negotiate with USA or a cable outlet for an hour Classics show with just segments from each of that month's WWE 24/7 offerings. There are a lot of people who have abandoned today's product and would love to see the wrestling they grew up with and may just need the reminder of getting something for free before they subscribe.


  16. The show has definitely approved since Heyman's dismissal. Either Heyman was burned out creatively or we weren't truely getting Heyman's booking but rather Paul trying to write shows that Vince wouldn't rip down piece by piece. If they are really serious about paying Heyman just so he doesn't move on to TNA - they should just use him in an advisor/consultant role to the ECW writers. Let him suggest things to Lagana and Dusty without actually being on the road, dealing with Vince and Stephanie and having the stress of being in charge of ECW creative. This way he would still have a voice in his creation, accepts that he's no longer the defining voice - that belongs to Vince and WWE Creative now - and he can be free to work on the projects outside of wrestling that he wants to work. Let's put it this way. It was his idea to push CM Punk as a centerpiece. It was his push that moved Lashley from Smackdown to ECW and his decision to put the belt on him when everyone feared he was too green - but look now - where would Vince vs. Trump at this year's Wrestlemania be without Lashley in the spot he's in? Heyman had good ideas but couldn't work in WWE's creative environment. So don't make him but get something out of him.


  17. When asked who his wrestler was, Trump said it was a guy named "Lindsey", in reference to Lashley. Trump said that "Lindsey" is a black gentleman who is the strongest person he’s ever seen.

     

    Steve Austin wasn't hurt when Mike Tyson kept calling him "Cold Stone" during every one of their Wrestlemania promos. That may have been even more embarassing since Austin was pretty much the WWF's big star at the time and Lashley is only being primed for a top spot.


  18. They really need to calm things down a bit. It was like seizure inducing two hours. Just too much to digest. I didn't like the new commentary from Tenay and West - that likely just confused the viewer as to whether this was all current or highlights. They called the action like they never saw it before but kept referencing 'that night'. The crowd sweetening was just too much and took away from the legitimate crowd response, TNA! chants, etc. The 'TNA Films' camera angle just looks like shit. I just thought this whole special was poorly executed.


  19. I'm going to make a bold prediction here but I believe Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn will look at Kriss Kloss on MTV and want him in WWE. If anything, just to raid WSX but also because he's young, enthusastic and can probably be grommed into their 'storyteller' play by play role unlike Joey Styles who was actually a wrestling announcer.

     

    Also, if MTV is really paying attention to how well WSX does against ECW on Tuesday nights - wouldn't it make more sense to drop the first run Friday episode and debut their new show on Tuesday nights? Hell, just show the internet show on Friday nights to build towards Tuesday's show. I just know that I'm more likely to record WSX on Fridays for weekend viewing rather than watch Tuesday night.


  20. I really can't understand why somebody would watch fake fights when you can get real fights, with real drama and just as big personalities.

     

    Because all of those real fights are ALL the same and really really really really REALLY boring. Not saying that "fake fights" are any better, but at least the (on the most part) entertaining.

     

    The whole CM Punk situation is beyond hillarious. With the excepetion of RVD, hes the most over star on the roster and will be untill hes gone. Why not push him? Becuase of attitude problems? Yet Randy Orten CONTINUES to fuck up and STILL gets pushed into the main event picture?

     

    Wrong on all counts. WWE matches follow the same format week in and week out. UFC or any brand of MMA have such wide range of differences in the fights, it actually creates a fresh choice often. Sometimes you'll get a snoozer with MMA as you would with any sport.

     

    A wide range of differences in fights... all of which bore me.


  21. I really can't understand why somebody would watch fake fights when you can get real fights, with real drama and just as big personalities.

     

    Because the "fake fights" are more entertaining and sometimes more athletic than two guys rolling around on the mat, tangled up in pretzel formations and punching each other's kidneys. I just can't get into it and I've spoke to others who are the same way. UFC does a better job at telling stories on their tv shows, character development and building PPV matches but the 'real stuff' bores the shit out of me and I'll take colorful personalities, pre-determined matches and stunts over UFC or MMA any day - if only the creative aspect behind professional wrestling was better.

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