cbacon

Give this man a prize.

"Listen, carefully now, this isn't very hard. Go to the site in question. Read over their mission, some of the articles and whatnot, then get back to me. It clearly isn't your run of the mill conservative group drinking coffee and sharing cookies." Well, I guess I stand corrected. BWA HA HA HA! -=Mike Umm, i think your missing the point. I wasn't implying to snuffbox that it was a conspiracy. I just told him to read it is all.

Say WHAT? I don't think the idea of further American imperialism and war tendencies would go over well with the general public.

*slams head on table* Listen, carefully now, this isn't very hard. Go to the site in question. Read over their mission, some of the articles and whatnot, then get back to me. It clearly isn't your run of the mill conservative group drinking coffee and sharing cookies. http://www.newamericancentury.org/ And you claimed you were proclaiming a conspiracy theory. You, dear sir, are not truthful. -=Mike ...Nor rational, intelligent, or witty --- but piling on is superfluous... Look, I know you like using your new favourite words , but there's a time and place. I didn't claim there was a conspiracy. I directed everyone to the PNAC's site. There's no need for conspiracy claims when everything is so blunt.

*slams head on table* Listen, carefully now, this isn't very hard. Go to the site in question. Read over their mission, some of the articles and whatnot, then get back to me. It clearly isn't your run of the mill conservative group drinking coffee and sharing cookies. http://www.newamericancentury.org/

The only thing putting me in a heavy sweat is fear of your crushing grasp of inane conspiracy theories. Honestly. -=Mike What we've learned from Mike today: No matter how convincing or accurate a source may be, if it dosen't agree with him, it's a conspiracy theory. Thanks Mike! May your new buzzwords run rampant on this board. What exactly is the source here? He listed the members of PNAC, their backgrounds, and their official statements. Everyone knows this stuff, in fact, the members are proud of it. The conspiracy theory stuff is just baseless fear-mongering. It's essentially a blue print for further war mongering and imperialistic tendencies. But hey, if you think war and hegemony are cool , then by no means is there anything wrong with that.

Your consistent use of the same rhetoric and lack of argument help to further your gimmick. It dosen't take a genius to see through your faux-pas sense of a rational poster. But keep it up Mike, your reign as the be all and know all of the CE folder must give you some sense of closure.

The only thing putting me in a heavy sweat is fear of your crushing grasp of inane conspiracy theories. Honestly. -=Mike What we've learned from Mike today: No matter how convincing or accurate a source may be, if it dosen't agree with him, it's a conspiracy theory. Thanks Mike! May your new buzzwords run rampant on this board.

Oh, Mike. I love your spin doctoring. Now we're having a contest over originality. Hmm, I don't think I claimed to be the innovator of such netiquette. But hey, maybe a mod changed the part where I said that. Another conspiracy, oh my! You know, I might have been threatened over your ignorance jab, but I don't think a walking conservative parody such as yourself really has the right. Seriously, stop the tongue lashing. I cannot handle the vicious, brutal rhetoric you've unleashed upon me. I'm actually typing this from UNDER my computer desk, out of fear of a FURTHER intellectual mauling. I beseech thee. Truly, you are a giant. Truly. I am TOTALLY serious here. Honestly. But, hey, don't worry --- your ignorance is part of your charm. You're like a slightly more deranged INXS --- or a slightly less neo-Nazi Kamui. -=Mike Good, now walk away with your tail between your legs like the last time you chose to ignore one of my points. And I don't even know who Kamui is, so yeah, whatever. Score one for Mike I guess.

irrelevant? Well that is your opinion. bullshit? That is one thing it certainly isn't. Fear over PNAC is the single most moronic thing you can feel. But, it is your decision to feel it. -=Mike once again, no one is FEARING it, just simply stating that PNAC is in effect, the Iraq War was a major step in accomplishing it, and people aware of it, were talking about it as soon as Bush was elected, as well as how we would end up in another middle eastern conflict, wasn't too hard to figure out. And hold on to that conspiracy theory. I'd be too humiliated to admit giving the conspiracy any serious consideration, but hey, you go where few others are willing to tread. -=Mike What conspiracy theory? Who's making things up? All you need to do is take a look at PNAC's website. It's all there! They outline they're intentions! Everything, pre-meditated as if it were Mein Kempf (uh oh! relax folks, just a comparison in it's style of doctrine). It's either your selective reading, or the fact you read certain material peaking through your hands admist a heavy sweat.

Oh, Mike. I love your spin doctoring. Now we're having a contest over originality. Hmm, I don't think I claimed to be the innovator of such netiquette. But hey, maybe a mod changed the part where I said that. Another conspiracy, oh my! You know, I might have been threatened over your ignorance jab, but I don't think a walking conservative parody such as yourself really has the right.

Edited for accuracy Ignorance is bliss.

*shakes head* Oi vey.

I can see where your coming from, to anyone who reads the first paragraph or watches the video would see it as ludicrous. However i'd like to point out: 1. This isn't just a group of regular neo-cons. As outlined in the first post, all of the members of PNAC are among the upper echelon of the White House and State Departments. 2. It does indeed have to do with the Bush Admnistration. Heck, many of it's members are part of it. Notwithstanding the fact Jeb Bush is part of the group, but they also personally sent messages to Bush and advocated his decisions while pushing for his post 9/11 foriegn policy actions. It only took a day after 9/11 for Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz to pitch the idea of going after Saddam. 3. The findings in the site are not very subtle. They explicitly endorse on waging war and bestoying American values on other nations. These aren't theories. They're all on the ACTUAL site. It's not a conspiracy site, there's no reading between the lines, it's a legitimate group of the aforementioned members. http://gvtc.com/~mpingo/pnac.html

Hmmm, standard routine here at the old CE folder. As predicted when something remotely questionable it's the knee jerk reaction: "OH NO, HE SAID SOMETHING BAD ABOUT AMERICA/BUSH~!". So far we've seen: - Personal attacks, check. - Conspiracy claims even when the information is presented, check. - Essentially ignoring the issue, check. Now granted, the whole universal vote thread may have been a tad to colorful for this forum, at least most of the responses were rational (even if the context of the article was a tad skewed, but i can see why it would have been interpreted that way). This thread is the standard same old, but a tad more immature. Kudos.

By that i gather: worst = opposing the uniform mind set of this folder. You don't have to spell it out.

The underlying threat that is oh so prothetically coming to fruition. Well, it's just the Wilsonian Democracy theory. Frankly, I can understand why it's no-sold: It's completely conspiratorial. Where did the orignal quote come from? From the video. And the picture, believe me, I wish this were some ridiculous farce/conspiracy theory. *sigh*

The underlying threat that is oh so prothetically coming to fruition.

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that. But I can't say im surprised of the no-selling. And at least there's the cool video, even if the content will fall on deaf ears.

Video Now, the project in question (before the lambasting consipiracy theorist claims ensue) : http://www.newamericancentury.org Ever wonder why most people don't know of this? Or why it's never been mentioned in the media? Further Reading Neoconservative clout seen in U.S. Iraq policy The key players in this project: Elliot Abrams - Special Assistant to President G.W. Bush and Senior Director for Near East and North African Affairs, including Arab/Israel relations. Was involved in the Iran/Contra scandal. Gary Bauer – Founded the Campaign For Working Families, a non-partisan political action committee (PAC) dedicated to electing pro-family, pro-life and pro-free enterprise candidates to federal and state offices. William Bennett – Former drug Tsar and conservative author. “In 2003, it became widely known that he was a high-stakes gambler who had lost millions of dollars in Las Vegas. This conflicted with his public image as a leading voice for conservative morals. After Bennett's gambling habit became public knowledge, and after he admitted having lost as much as $8,000,000 within a one-year period, he claimed he was never addicted to gambling and compared his gambling to responsible drinking.” Jeb Bush – Governor of Florida, brother of President G.W. Bush. Dick Cheney – Vice President of the United States, former CEO of Halliburton, former Secretary of Defense under George H. W. Bush, former Senior Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, has ties to the Carlyle Group, served on the Advisory Board of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, and voted against the following: - the Equal Rights Amendment - opposed the sale ban of armor-piercing bullets - one of only four to oppose the ban on guns that can get through metal detectors - opposed sanctions against the apartheid-era South Africa in the mid-1980s along with voting against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela - voted against Head Start - participated in White House decisions that have allocated billions of dollars of bids to Halliburton that have not gone to open tender Vice President Cheney still receives an estimated 1 million dollars a year from Halliburton. Eliot Cohen - Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies: Director, Center for Strategic Studies, member of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, member of the American Enterprise Institute. Midge Decter– Served as executive director of the Committee for the Free World, an anticommunist organization disbanded after the collapse of the Berlin Wall. She is the author of several books, The Liberated Woman & Other Americans (1970); The New Chastity and Other Arguments Against Women's Liberation (1972); Liberal Parents, Radical Children (1975) - "'We're not in the Middle East to bring sweetness and light to the world. We're there to get something we and our friends in Europe depend on. Namely, oil.'" – M. Decter on the Warren Olney show, 89.9, Los Angeles, 5/21/04 Paula Dobriansky – US Under Secretary of Global Affairs. Steve Forbes - President and editor in chief of Forbes Magazine. Aaron Friedberg - Princeton University Professor. Francis Fukuyama - A professor at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University. Frank Gaffney - President, CEO, and founder of the Center for Security Policy. Served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Richard Perle. Former chairman of the High Level Group at NATO. Senior advisor at Americans for Victory Over Terrorism. Fred Ikle - Scholar with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, member of the Council on Foreign Relations, served as a Commissioner on the National Commission on Terrorism, was Undersecretary of Defense for Policy in the Ronald Reagan administration and Director for the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, served as Chairman of the Board of the Telos Corporation and as a Director of the Zurich-American Insurance Companies and of CMC Energy Services. Donald Kagan - Hillhouse Professor of History and Classics at Yale University, where he has taught since 1969. Zalmay Khalilzad – Current US Ambassador to Afghanistan, headed the Bush-Cheney transition team for the Defense Department in 2000, has been a Counselor to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, "Several [Afghan presidential] candidates ... maintain that the U.S. ambassador and his aides are pushing behind the scenes to ensure a convincing victory by the pro-American incumbent, President Hamid Karzai," - the Los Angeles Times. I. Lewis Libby - Assistant to President Bush and Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, suspected of leaking Valerie Plame's status as a covert CIA operative, work for Mr. Wolfowitz at the State Department. Richard Perle - Pentagon policy adviser (resigned February 2004), associated with the American Enterprise Institute, is closely allied with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Dundes Wolfowitz, s on the Advisory Board of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a former chairman of the Defense Policy Board, was appointed Assistant Secretary of Defense in the presidential administration of Ronald Reagan. During the presidential campaign of George W. Bush, Perle served as a foreign policy advisor. Norman Podhoretz - Former editor-in-chief of "Commentary”, served with the U.S. Information Agency. Dan Quayle - Former Vice President of the United States under George H. W. Bush. Peter Rodman - Assistant US Secretary of Defense - International Security Affairs. Stephen Rosen - Professor of National Security and Military Affairs at Harvard University. Henry Rowen - Member of the Department of Defense's Defense Policy Board, member of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, former president of the RAND Corporation. Donald Rumsfeld - Current US Secretary of Defense, former Secretary of Defense under President Ford, served President Nixon as U.S. Ambassador to NATO, is a member of the Bilderberg group, has ties to the Atlantic Institute, served as non-executive Chairman of Gilead Sciences, Inc, served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Instrument Corporation, served as Chief Executive Officer, President and then Chairman of G.D. Searle & Co,. Vin Weber - Co-founder and co-director of Empower America, a partner in Clark & Weinstock and co-director of the Aspen Institute's Domestic Strategy Group. George Weigel - Senior Fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Paul Wolfowitz - Current US Deputy Secretary of Defense, the principal author of the "Wolfowitz doctrine", also known as the Bush doctrine, has ties to Northrop Grumman, believed to be a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, is on the board of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, is a former Dean at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University and is still listed as an instructor.

Very accurate.

Man, reading comprehension really isn't your thing is it? If you read the letters you would know that the soldiers aren't merely angered over the concept of war in itself, but the conditions they were sent to war, one that was unjust and immoral. Yeeesh.

Trying to disprove the arguments would contradict the statement you just quoted... No, but your more abundant on this board, far more vocal and irrational. Nothing can be disputed because everything said is legitimate and anything opposing is either deemed ludicrous or ignored. There's no middle ground. Yes, being the Northern neighbour to your country frightens me as it does many other nations, which is why there is such keen interest in the outcome of this election. The lives of potentially millions hang in the balance of US international affairs. If you want to assume the book will contain ten letters, sure. And dude, you don't need 20 ellipses after making a point.