Angle-plex

Matches I'm looking for: Hansen vs Kobashi 7/29/93 Misawa vs Kawada 6/3/94 Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue 6/95 Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Taue 12/96 Austin vs Hart Survivor Series 96 I have DC++ but only 3 GB...

I've seen most of the matches, and I'd say Kobashi/Sasaski was the best match; ridiculous chop battle aside. Kenta/Kanemaru was second best, although I would rank it best if Kenta's armwork from the beginning wasn't forgot midway through the match. I'd love to see Taue/Kawada vs Misawa/Kobashi at the next show.

I really wish they would stick with the red, white, and blue ropes.

There's a main eventer.

But Eddie has leverage over Rey, so shouldn't he be using it for his own benefit? How does it benefit Eddie to reveal the secret to Rey if he has already beaten Rey? The better thing to do would have been to make Rey/Eddie a number one contender match for the World Title at SummerSlam, then Eddie saying that if Rey won he would reveal the secret. That would create interest to see how Rey would react during the match.

If Eddie wins, why would he bother telling Rey's secret? He would have finally gotten what he wanted; a win over Rey. It would make a lot more sense if the stipulation was if Rey wins then Eddie will tell the secret.

Who is going to win in the feud: Hardy or Edge? Hardy winning would be pointless, because what do you do with him after. Edge winning means that Hardy loses the girl and the feud and looks like a tool. After the feud, both guys will either be in the same spot that they were or Edge will be worse off than before.

Shelton v. Jericho v. Christian- just an awesome match, better then most of the stuff at WM XXI. Don' think I saw this... Shelton v. Christian wasn't average, it was a fun face v. heel match, with Shelton one-upping Christian at every turn and had well timed spots with Tomko It was just a bunch of moves thrown together until the move, pin, two count, move, pin, two count, repeat, repeat, repeat finish. Nothing built to anything. Plus the crowd wasn't into it. Pretty boring offense from Christian and the usual Shelton spots, including the infamous "Grad my foot and the spin it around so it goes back into your face" move.

Flair looks much BETTER then Hogan in the ring. Could Hogan go like Flair did couple of weeks ago with Angle? No. Hell, Hogan can't even do a fucking Leg Drop normally and he sure as hell can't take any hard bumps like Flair did. Flair owns Hogan in the ring like he always did and although I don't like HHH I wouldn't mind seeing Flair/HHH because I know it'll be a good match and HHH won't be in the main event. Nah. That Flair/Angle match is an exception because it covers up Flair's weakness that is his offense because it allowed him to use his cheating instead. Hogan's not great either, but at least he busts out some good offensive moves once and a while (his match vs Rock at WMX8 stands out).

I honestly haven't seen it in a while, but I remember it being a bunch of spots with non-sense in between, and then the standard hot finish. Still, much better pacing than the Taboo Tuesday match. Flair brought the match down a little since he can't do much anymore, but Shelton was just as bad. Flair was working Shelton's leg in the beginning, and when Shelton came back later in the match, he completely no-sold it. The he does he high spots and that's it. Shelton/Xtian was pretty average. What was the night after WMXXI?

What good matches has Shelton had? vs HBK was good, vs Benoit and vs Christian on RAW were ok, but everything else was either a spotfest (WrestleMania XXI) or sucked (vs Carlito, vs Jericho, vs Flair).

When Cena speaks, the arena literally stops. He has them in the palm of his hands. The only other person/people in very recent memory who have had that much control over the crowd is Austin and Hogan. Have you seen an Austin promo from 1998? The crowd pops literally every time he pauses because they are so excited to see him. The crowd doesn't react to Cena the same way. Maybe you haven't noticed in the live crowds the dozens of little kids with inflatable John Cena hands, stupid spinning necklaces and fake knucks. And Cena has been on Raw for a month. Smackdown was losing ratings w/ JBL as the champ, and there was a slow increase weekly when Cena won. If fans are leaving like you say they are, then new ones must be coming in to at least keep the ratings consistent. He's not driving old fans away, but he's not bringing the fans that already left back, and he's not bringing in new fans (And if he's such a draw like Austin and Hogan, he should be). Add that to the fact that his gimmick is growing more stale by the week. And if he's so big then fans should have tuned in to Smackdown regardless of if Cena had the belt. Did fans tune out in 98/99 when Austin wasn't champion? If the two guys have the same flaws and strengths [which I don't believe], but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Shelton deserves a push b/c he's gotten to the level in his career of RVD in 1/4 of the time that it took RVD. RVD got to that level quickly in his career as well...he just didn't change much after. It's not complicated, it's just useless. RVD has had years to prove himself as a viable World Champion contender, and he has failed. Miserably. Why should they invest another 6-7 months in him? How did he fail? He was at least as over as Cena and Batista are now back in 2001/2002. If anyone failed, it was WWE. And Shelton has shown that he is way more then just a great amateur. Watch his Gold Rush tournament match with HBK again. Shelton is not only a great amateur, he's a great spot man, and has amazing athleticism, balance, etc. His match vs HBK was the exception, and I thought that after that match Shelton would start using his head while wrestling. He proved me wrong. Watch his matches vs Jericho Backlash 2005, vs Jericho Taboo Tuesday, and vs Flair Backlash 2004, and you'll see his flaws pretty clearly. His matches with Carlito have also been just awful. If Shelton was ever given the chance to show some character, I think you'd be impressed. The very short amount of time he had with Jericho, he showed more depth then RVD ever has. Not true. He showed more depth than RVD has since 2001 would be accurate, however, because that's zero. Shelton showed NO depth. What does he stand for? Why is he wrestling? What are his goals? The one promo other then "cool" or "whatever" he did was not good. I'm sorry, but that ONS "shoot" was just lame. BTW- Edge showed he can cut a good promo still, and his old stuff is solid gold. You're right about the rest of them, though. UGH. Edge's stuff from 2000 is good. He was awful on promos from 2001 to last Monday on RAW. RVD is just as good, and also connects with the crowd 100x better, yet people are wanting him to be champion now as well. Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it. That doesn't even make sense... Have you not watched one of his matches? The guy has a few spots. That's it. When has he used his pure wrestling to have it play into the story of the match? Never. Instead he uses that HORRIBLE kick, spin around, kick than opponents just can't seem to figure out.

That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was the point. Many want WWE not to push RVD because he sucks, yet push Benjamin to the main events because he's great. Both are great athletes. Both are great bumpers. Both are great at spots. They're both horrible in ways already mentioned, but RVD at least has a little bit of character and more in-ring charisma. And RVD's promo was awful? Not really. He's better than a lot of the usualy RAW promo guys. At least better than Edge, Lita, Matt Hardy, Kane, Snitsky, and Chris Masters (I'd also add Carlito, but that discussion is already in another thread). Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it.

People wear long shit because they think it looks cool. People wear ripped jeans because they think it looks cool. People were all black because they think it looks cool. How is this pattern so hard for so many to see?

Cena's matches are horrible and his mic skills are passible? And that makes him entertaining? His promos are just a bunch of screaming and yelling, and when the crowd doesnt' react, he increases the volume even MORE, which makes him look desperate. He's not very good at anything really. And Cena's bringing in a new fanbase? Where are the numbers to support this? If this is true, than why are RAW's ratings not increasing weekly? Is he bringing in the fans that left the past few years? Is he bringing in new fans faster than old fans are leaving? Why people argue that RVD shouldn't get pushed and Shelton should is beyond me. Shelton was given a chance at Backlash against Jericho and he brought nothing to the table except his fancy offensive moveset. Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no. If he learns all of this while in the midcard then maybe he'll be ready for a main event push in a year or so but right now is too early. These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised.

When is he entertaining? I think I must be missing those segments. And he might be over (although his promos make him look like he's desperate for any type of reaction) but he's still not much of a draw. What fanbase to Cena and Orton appeal to? Cena appeals to white pre-teens/early teens and Orton appeals to girls. WWE's audience is mostly comprised of older males. Couldn't that description could fit a certain WWE Champion?

His promos were awful. I challenge anyone to name one promo that was so good we could put Hassan in the "incredible" promo guy category.

Nothing draws the crowds like Bob Holly and his Alabama Slam. No wonder Juvi tried to steal it from him.

Who cares if this thing was ok or not; The whole thing fucking sucked anyways. Hassan's character was supposed to be "wrongly" judged because he was an arab-american, and then he goes and commits a "terrorist" attack on Undertaker complete with religious sacraficing and throat slashing (If he beheaded Undertaker, would a headless zombie Taker still wrestle at the Bash....). At least I can still enjoy my weekly dose of wrestling racism with Kerwin White, JBL, and the Mexicools.

Only if you take Shelton's ability to work in a ring, his selling, his promo ability, etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...all of those completely average traits? Shelton does have amazing athleticism, cool moves and a great sense of when to make the babyface comeback in his match; I'll give him that. Claiming he has anything beyond that is ridiculous. Watch his Backlash match with Jericho; Benjamin brings nothing to the table except the cool spots that he always does. The seven or eight minute RAW matches disguise it, but you can't expect him to work a twenty minute PPV main event just by doing cool spots, do you? His promo ability is non-existent besides a few one liners that he delivered well, but you can't say he has good promo ability from that. We also can't criticize or rave about his selling either, since we've yet to see him in a match that requires it. He bumps good, sure, but that's not selling.

RVD's not a master storyteller in the ring, but his offense is somewhat exciting and he connects with the crowd better than almost anyone. Take away his strong crowd connection and he's like the same person as Shelton Benjamin.

He doesn't have the "look". He moveset is bland. His psychology is non-existent. His mic skills, while occasionally having a funny line, leave something to be desired. He's also never had a good match, and barely any watchable matches. He doesn't deserve the push he is getting and is probably my least favorite wrestler at the moment.

WWE Title John Cena © vs Chris Jericho Should be pretty bad, given that Cena sucks and Jericho hasn't been in a great match since 2002-is. I don't think Jericho is much of a ring general either, so if this goes longer than fifteen minutes...ugh. World Title Batista © vs Hassan Eh. Somewhat decent idea considering it's in Washington DC. Match will probably be pretty bad. HBK vs Hulk Hogan I'm somewhat interested to see this. I'm not sure if HBK has the offense to make the "heel beatdown" part of the match interesting. Probably a blah match with a somewhat hot finish. Casket Match Undertaker vs Randy Orton Their match at Mania was better than expected, but still not a classic. **-ish area. Edge and Snitsky vs Kane and Matt Hardy Why why why why why! If I have to see Kane and Edge in the same ring again after SummerSlam I may explode. If this match happens then consider the Matt Hardy angle blown. US Title Chris Benoit © vs JBL Somewhat interesting match. JBL would be a great worker if he just paced his matches a little better, and I think Benoit will help him do it. MOTN. IC Title Street Fight Carltio © vs Shelton Benjamin Why why why why why! Nobody cares about this feud. The matches suck. The IC belt sucks. Stop putting these two chumps in the ring and expect people to care. If these two had ANY chemistry together I may be of a different mindset. Big Show vs Kurt Angle I see the draft has really boosted both guys' careers. Fucking brilliant. I'd rather see Show vs Masters (HEAT MATCH!) and Angle vs that jobber Styker for match #424 of their series. The Final Match Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr. ANOTHER match we've seen 234254 times. The WM match SUCKED. Their Smackdown match was better, and hopefully they'll go crazy here so this horrible angle can end and both can move on to other (better?) things.

Shelton hardly ever blew spots before this awful series with Carlito began, but most of his slips have been his fault. Why he's starting to do this now I have no idea.

did you not even watch the challenge the last two weeks? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stryker is a jobber. He's never won a match and has already lost three. The way he's been booked so far indicates that he is the definition of a jobber.