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I'm just watching the Nancy Grace thing now. I can't believe she says "being demoted to RAW" from being a Four Horseman. Like wow. Who filled her in on that one? Does she even realize that we're talking about two different companies at the time? Probably not. What a tool, either way.

I hope His wife and Dominik are sleeping with one eye open That goes double for Mrs. Angle Who would have thought the Smackdown Six would have ended up like this. Eddy - Dead Benoit - Murder/Suicide Edge - Adultery (though it pretty much lead to him winning the title, go figure) Angle - Possibly crazy, left company Rey - ??? Chavo - ??? Wierd isn't it? Such a great group of performers and now in shambles. Reminds me of how the Hart Foundation group turned out...

All I've been able to find is this on http://ajpw.puroresufan.com/ Mind you, I think that took place on Monday so who knows if the news was over there as to how it all went down or not. Either way I don't see anything on Strong Style Spirit or on any of the official company sites.

Yeah, and in Benoit's case, he's also leaving behind a lot of friends and family - including his other children. Hell, everyone who's ever watched him - as shown in this thread - is having a hard time allowing themselves to have memories of Benoit without the overshadowing and painful visions of the way his life ended. Suicide is an extremely self-centered and selfish act which will hurt and emotionally scar the people you leave behind.

Suicide isn't selfish. Killing everyone around you because of your own issues is selfish. Suicide itself just means that you couldn't cope with an aspect of life on some level, ie , you're just very mentally distraught. If anything, people who think this way are selfish, since everyone should be able to determine.make their own decisions about their own life/body in the end. Chris stepped over the line only b/c A) He killed two people, and B) Suicide, since he had sons still living. Suicide is selfish. Selfish if you're killing just yourself - depriving those who love you of your presence in their lives and taking the cowards way out - the "easy" way out. In Benoit's case it's selfish because he couldn't own up to the crimes he committed and took the easy way out. To me that's as selfish as you can get.

I don't know. I have a hard time erasing anyone from history regardless of how them came to their demise. I mean, how else do we learn from such tragic events like this? You see all the good he did over the years, the fans he entertained, and then how tragically and selfishly he ended it? It can only serve as wake-up call to those who may be heading down the same path to seek help while they still can. Victoria put it pretty good up above in her posting. As long as you breathe breath you have the ability to make a change and a choice. As for actually erasing his matches and whatnot.. well, I have his DVD. Will I ever watch it again? Maybe. Will I enjoy the matches? There's a possibility. I just feel really awful for any wrestler who felt they might have had their best matches with Benoit. It must suck for them to re-evaluate something like that...

No he should be remembered as the cold blooded killer that he is. He's a coward, and he deserves to be remembered as a murderer. If there is a hell, I hope he rots in it. You do understand he killed his wife and his kid, that goes so beyond the scope of wrestling and what he did inside the wrestling ring. That all means nothing now. He's a murderer, and should be treated no differently than anyone else who murdered someone. So why does the NFL still acknowledge OJ and his accomplishments.... Because he was acquitted of the charges. Aside from what everyone says or believes, a court of law found him innocent and I guess that's enough for the NFL.

Nancy Grace is just a bad joke. I swear to god that the first time I ever saw her show - I thought it was some SNL-like skit/joke program. Her and her little "experts" that she has on are all so mellowdramatic and over-the-top it makes me sick to watch it no matter what the subject is. Last night when the Benoit case got about 15 minutes, it was awful because she kept splicing back to wedding photos of her and her eunuch looking husband and telling everyone that she's expecting twins and thanks for sharing her joy... *shudder*

Have you seen the cost of video game controllers lately? They're just as expensive as the games. You could get a good lamp for the cost of a Wii Controller + Nunchuk.

We've gone through the motions of this newsbit a few times already. The general consensus is that it's probably just a rumor that it was the Crossface he used.. but not much of a stretch that he used an actual (rear naked) chokehold.

I would also say that a huge chunk of the blame falls on him for not even seeking help - that we know of, at least. Sure, Eddy might have been his only "go to" friend.. but there are so many other outlets that he could have sought to get help with this problem. Letting these kinds of feelings fester and build like that... never a good thing.

Agreed and thanks for clarifying.

What dude? It's the internet, so I don't know if that's sarcasm or snide or whatever. Anyway, I'm really not trying to start shit. I'm just seeing a group of certain posters coming down on another group just because they want to UNDERSTAND why it happened - and it's really rubbing me the wrong way. There's nothing wrong with trying to understand why the brain works the way it does and by no means is that justifying the act of murder by any stretch.

Fault is assigned to Benoit. No one is disputing that he is at fault. There is a difference between speculating whether or not someone is innocent or guilty of a crime before all of the facts come in (as was done early in this thread) and speculating what made a guilty man snap and kill his family. Everyone has a breaking point and people are just trying to figure out what Benoit's was. No one is going to stop doing that just because you seem to think that by doing so they're somehow justifying the murders in some way.

No one's saying that, because, obviously there was a way he could do it.. because he did it. They're saying it's hard to believe it's the same person they knew, grew up with, etc.. and that is hardly denial. It's like having a difficult time wrapping your mind around something you know is true.. you're trying to figure out why and how it could happen. Denial is flat out not believing that he did this. A lot of people in this thread seem to have a problem with understanding the context of words and sentence structure lately.

How is it "denial" to not assume he was a brutal psychopath his entire life? Especially when based on the testimonials of his closest friends and family? No one is denying that he degenerated into a sick and depraved individual during the latter years of his life.

No, you're right, you did read it. It was said a few times. Don't know what ever happened to that detail or if it was debunked though.

Humming his theme tune... It's wierd I know. I'm a visual person, and I sense that everyone else here has imagined what happened if even only for a split second. Since I've rarely seen Benoit in street clothes I do picture him in ring gear doing this. Then again, if I pictured a wrestler going to the grocery store, he'd probably be in his ring gear then too.

Now you're getting into the semantics of what a crossface actually is. They're using Crossface in the sense of his Finisher and where HIS body is placed and the bruises on the kid. Whether or not the move was actually a crossface (as in "something across the kids face") is a moot point.

No knee in the back with the Crossface. http://img.search.com/thumb/2/20/Crossface...x-Crossface.jpg Also, I doubt this move will become so taboo that it'll never be used again. Maybe in North American, fine. But I doubt overseas. There are lots of guys who regularly use the move in Japan, including Jado and Yuji Nagata. Thanks for that -- I was thinking of something entirely different. With that in mind, anyone else think the notion of him using a wrestling move on one or both of his victims sound a bit too sensationalistic? As if pushing the roid rage issue wasn't enough fuel on the fire already. It seems entirely sensationalistic to me.

It is if instead of locking your hands in front of the person's face, you put your forearm over their throat. I think it's just a rumor as well, but I'm just saying the Crossface COULD be modified to be a choke.

No knee in the back with the Crossface. http://img.search.com/thumb/2/20/Crossface...x-Crossface.jpg Also, I doubt this move will become so taboo that it'll never be used again. Maybe in North American, fine. But I doubt overseas. There are lots of guys who regularly use the move in Japan, including Jado and Yuji Nagata.

Steve Corino. At least, I really respect him. Dude is very transparent with his thoughts, opinions and the reasons he's in the business. He's in constant communication with his fans through his livejournal. I've had conversations with him through email and IM and he seems like a really genuine guy. He's even retiring very soon to take an office job with Zero One.

Sorry, I should've clarified that that reply wasn't specifically aimed at you - even though I quoted you - I've seen it mentioned a few times already in this long and tiring thread that these "shady" actions could've been an indication of the person he'd become. Adultry and changing companies does not make someone a murdering psychopath.

That's what makes it more interesting. Everyone claimed he was a a quiet guy, never complained and just did his business without the politics. There was a thread, I believe on the DVDVR boards back then that said "because Benoit is a IWC hero does he get a free pass backstage". Maybe it is true that he did. Benoit and other smark favorites get free passes all the time. It's been pointed out here several times that Benoit has a history of shady things (stealing Sullivan's wife, abusing steroids, DUI, domestic disturbances, using the WCW championship as leverage to jump ship, etc.). Look at the whole steroids thing as well. People dog on Batista, Snitsky, and Masters all the time for being roided up. We hardly ever hear the same for Benoit, Rey, or Jericho. It's a double standard. Alright. People need to stop using how he hooked up with Woman as an indicator that something like this tragedy could happen. That's a three way street. Benoit for being interested and hooking up with Nancy. Nancy for cheating on her husband. Kevin Sullivan for not living up to his end of the marriage. People just don't cheat out of the blue. There's always an underlying reason for it, so obviously that marriage wasn't all flowers and puppy dogs. The fact that people are trying to use that scenario as an indicator is REALLY reaching and pretty stupid. As for the jumping ship thing. Give me a break. This shit happens ALL THE TIME in wrestling, especially during the Monday Night Wars. We already know WCW was in shambles and that several wrestlers already wanted out. Trying to use THIS as something to connect to him becoming a murderer is just fucking ridiculous.