jester

So he'd be over if they put the World belt on him 9 more times? Christ Almighty, *I* would get over as a heel if they put the belt on me ten fucking times. Sometimes, it just ain't worth the effort. I think that Orton was born from the same mentality that created HHH, actually. They found a wrestler, and for whatever reason, they wanted him to be a top guy in the company. The fans aren't taking to him? Ok, we'll give him valets. We'll constantly book him in high profile angles. We'll give him belts and lots of wins. Still not over? Hmmm, we'll keep trying. We'll give him wins against some of the big dogs. Fans still not into him? Okay, how about a series of brutal matches against Mick Foley? There, he's over! And it only took a few years! Oh, but we have to keep him over, so let's keep giving him wins, lots of exposure on Raw, a big fancy entrance... You're right, sometimes it just ain't worth the effort.

I would have had Orton claim that the reason he can beat the Undertaker is because he is willing to do anything to get the win. Anything. He will sell his soul, there is no depth to which he won't sink. "Let me demonstrate," he says. Stacy eats an RKO. "See? I don't care who I hurt, I don't care what bridges I have to burn, I don't care what lines I have to cross. I will do anything to take Undertaker down."

EXACTLY. A heel should cut promos full of lies. They should make claims they are clearly not entitled to. Heels should claim that they won a match without cheating... when they cheated from bell to bell. They should accuse the face of doing all the stuff they are guilty of. HHH says nobody can beat him. And he's right. This does not make him a good heel. It just makes the audience depressed.

I started to get into Batista when he started to pay mind games with HHH...and win. Nobody has been allowed to do that in years. It had nothing to do with his clothes. Remember when he insisted that HHH pay off the $100 bet, and then said he was kidding?

HAHAHAHAHA. Man, you had me there for a second. As long as I was dreaming, I thought I'd dream big.

Batista will remain over if: 1) He beats HHH at WM. Clean. 2) He beats HHH in the rematches. Clean. 3) HHH acts majorly humbled by the losses and not "Keep it warm for me Batista." 4) HHH moves down and get involved in a midcard feud, and Raw is not built around him. 5) Batista has a decent reign length. These bullshit token one or two month face reigns have to stop. 6) They continue to write promos where Batista's opponent does most of the talking and whining, and Batista responds with a few comments that make him a subtle smartass and badass. He should not do 20 minute blab fests. Nobody should, but that's another matter. 7) They build up some strong heels for him to face after HHH. This is by far and away the biggest concern, because Raw does not have any other strong heels. They need to start building some, like two months ago. If Orton beats the Undertaker, he *might* be able to pass for a strong heel. In short, smart protective booking, which has gotten over every other star since the dawn of time, will get Batista over and keep him over. Whether or not he gets it is another matter.

Orton played the exact same respect card in his promo against Undertaker last night. None of this can be blamed on Orton or Batista though. They are told what to say. And in order not to offend the senior citizens backstage, they have to cut these "I respect you" promos. Book both of them right, and they could be stars for years to come. Book them badly (which is a dangerous possibility for both) and they'll die.

He said that Orton is so desperate he's done the suicidal thing by taking on the Undertaker. He crowed over his win over Benoit, the guy he could not beat. He said Batista could easily beat Cena and JBL. He said that Batista is not on his level, and will lose at WM. He sneeringly dismissed four or five wrestlers he's not in a program with. These guys won't be even cutting a promo firing back at him, or running out to give HHH a beatdown. Now, most of this could be remedied if HHH puts over Batista. If he doesn't, or if he does the token win followed by getting his job back, once again HHH has buried half of the guys who could break out and be stars.

Goldberg was still a fresh face on the scene. He was popular, and had potential to draw money until Nash and pals shit all over him. It would be like jobbing out Hogan right after he beat the Iron Sheik. Fans weren't sick of him yet and wanted to see him kick more ass. Undertaker is not a fresh face. He's had a long ride at the top and has been booked extremely protectively. He's not drawing huge dollars at the peak of his career. If he was, it would be idiotic to job him out. Nash, as it has been pointed out, was already an established main eventer. A beyond stale main eventer. Orton is trying to get to the next level. That main event level. Beating Undertaker would in theory get him there. (ok, I don't believe it either, but I do believe UT has to lose that streak to someone)

Another thing. Who here is convinced that if Orton does beat Undertaker, about 12 seconds later he will be booked into another program with HHH, and HHH will go over?

That commercial was seriously about the only worthwhile thing on Raw tonight. The rest was about as exciting as reading the dictionary backwards.

Batsita will be a failure in 3 months and turn into another Kane in the eyes of the fans. Orton has 20 years to left in his carrer and will be the future. Batista is a developing face, so a program with the Undertaker wouldn't work either. Only a really hot, formidable heel would work. Which Raw and WWE doesn't really have right now. But I think fans would believe Batista as being physically capable of beating the Undertaker more than they would Orton.

Put me on this bandwagon as well. I have no idea who should get to break the streak, but it should happen. It just shouldn't be Orton.

Well, I am torn. I hate Undertaker, and I admit it would amuse me to no end if he lost his streak to Orton. On the other hand, I know that they should be giving a win like this to someone with much more credability and star power than Orton.

Undertaker ASKED for this program with Orton? Where did you hear this?

Oh, I know the fans will shit all over it. But that wouldn't necessarily stop WWE from doing it. The question is which force is mightier: WWE's insane desire to make something out of Orton, or UT's political power? Because you know Mr. Locker Room Leader Respect My Lard Blah Blah Blah ain't happy about the prospect of jobbing for the son of Roddy Piper's boyfriend. I personally think that UT is currently politicking with all his might, so it's not going to happen. Orton gets squashed, but Undertake offers one of those stupid "respect" handshakes that do fuck all for a wrestler's credability.

Orton pretty much has to go over if they want him to have any kind of credability. I won't even touch whether or not he deserves to.

I bet Hogan is already proposing that he go over Stallone at the induction.

I thought it was a horrible promo. Redundant, buried people unnecessarily, and it accomplished nothing other than reveal that Batista's match would be a lumberjack match. Promos that long do not belong in wrestling. I don't care if you've got the Rock on Extacy in there, nobody is that interesting for that long.

Should we perhaps establish here whether we're talking about Hulk Hogan, the character, vs. Terry Bollea? As Slacker says, he likes Hogan, but Bollea can fuck off. I didn't like Hogan to begin with, and when I learned about his backstage horseshit it got much worse. So how many people like Hogan the performer, vs Bollea the person?

I always hated Hogan. I am no workrate fanatic, but even in the markiest of my mark days I noticed that he didn't actually do much, and he was a complete spotlight hog. I always will hate Hogan, unless he one day swings around my house and delivers a cheque for a million bucks. Then I might like him. Maybe.

jester should bring out Mr. Slave-uh, too. "Children-uh, I'd like to introduce Mr. Slave-uh." "Jesuth Christh. WOOOOO!"

Jake was "sick" for the interview? Hmm...

Not to mention Taker's hand was "broken" and Taker made him look weak a month earlier by completely dominating him in their first match. And pinned Brock in a HANDICAP match with the Big Show with Paul Heyman cheating on his behalf. Taker did more harm for Brock.

Mine does. Oh, and this story screams "please give us our own reality show, MTV! Brooke needs the exposure!" Mine too. I think MOST towns and cities have limits. It's unsanitary and unfair to animals to keep lots of them on a small property. Oh, and... This from the woman who has a reality show camera crew with her. From her son's production company. Wow, now I find that I hate the entire fucking Hogan family.