jester

And worse, the whole segment was so hideous contrived. Yeah, I'd sure sign papers for a match handed to me by my arch-rival without reading them. They should have had Kane go after Ross again, and have RvD make the save. And Shane should go back to doing whatever he does.

New guys can get good heat by putting on entertaining matches and cutting good promos without the assistance of half the company. Has Orton done that? Yes, you certainly do. RVD and Hurricane are over RIGHT NOW. Orton is not over despite being dropped into the main event scene, supported by two top players, and the commentators constantly kissing his ass. Including JR, who is a face commentator and is not supposed to like the heels. Despite this, he is still not getting a reaction when he comes out. Now, take a fifth of that effort, and use it to push guys like RVD, Hurricane, or Booker. Imagine where they'd be? What's "good economics" about spending all this time trying and failing to get someone who is totally new to be the next superstar, when all the evidence shows that there are three people who are just waiting to break out? I wouldn't mind seeing him in the main event. Look at it this way. They put him in match where he beat the Rock. And then they had HHH rough him up and instantly push him back down the card. Despite Hurricane and getting good reactions. Orton has been hanging round at the top of the card for much longer, and still they refuse to give up on him. Why did they give up on Hurricane immediately, but continue to work with Orton? And as for where "the outcry" for Hurricane's elevation is, where is the outcry for Orton's elevation? From the marks? Nope. Only the front office wants to see him pushed. We don't want Orton badly used. That's the issue. He's being badly used right now, because he is in a spot he can't manage and is not ready for. A lot of people on this board liked the RNN gimmick. I thought they were mildly entertaining and about right for Orton as a midcard heel. The Evolution gimmick is not suited for him at all at his current development. Yes, RVD is no Benoit. But his offense is different and entertaining. If I went down to OVW, how long would it take for me to find someone who could match Orton move for move or better? Two minutes?

Oh come on now. There are lots of wrestlers who get a decent reaction on Raw, and could be elevated if WWE would work on them for more than .0004 seconds at a time. Hurricane comes to mind. Even tonight RVD got some chants when he came out, despite playing second fiddle to Shane McMahon. These guys do not have Lawler and Orton going on about how great they are. They were not teamed up with Flair and HHH in the hopes that some heat would rub off on them. And they are still more over than Orton. When the audience cheers these guys, they are asking to see more of them. Instead of doing something to meet that demand, they say "Now how can we get Orton to get reactions like that?" It's just bad economics.

For me, it's almost not Orton I dislike, though I am sick of seeing him. It's that over and over again, WWE tells me how IMPORTANT he is and how is the FUTURE of the company. I'm just supposed to accept that. Don't tell me. SHOW ME. Have Orton do something entertaining. Have him put on good matches. Have him cut wicked promos. Fling him off the Titantron, something. I'll decide if he's important, thank you very much. If he isn't capable of any of that, then job him out on Heat or fire him, and go with someone on the roster who can deliver the goods.

I've been thinking about Vince's business dealings over the years. Despite massive chaos, confusion, investigations, near bankruptcy, he has always come ahead. Sometimes it has taken years to get the last laugh, but he almost always gets it. I am wondering if there is anyone who has dealt with Vince--either an individual or organization--that has rode Vince like a mule, rather than being ridden. Bret Hart looked like he was going to do it. He clobbered him and walked away with a big fat WCW contract. But WCW mismanaged Bret, went out of business, and you know the rest. Meanwhile, Vince invented the evil McMahon character and feuded with Austin, and turned the company around. He turned a bad situation into money. Eric Bischoff might have been known as the guy who slew McMahon--when WCW was on top he made Vince and crew look like dinosaurs. Now, Eric works for Vince. The US Justice Department--tried with the steroids trial, still couldn't bring him down. Few people who have taken legal action against him got anything out of it. Right Sable? I think the only two parties that can legitimately say they got over on Vince are: The World Wildlife Fund: It's Vince's fault for violating the agreement, but man did they make him pay for it. They substantially changed the company and its plans, and Vince hasn't got even. Time will tell if that changes. Hulk Hogan: Hogan hasn't embarassed Vince like the WWF, but arguably he's always used Vince well. He's alway negotiated a premium contract, runs at the top, and usually left before Vince could humiliate him. There was that one time with Yokozuna, but Hogan went to WCW and became part of a big money angle. Can anyone else think of someone who has walked away from Vince, taken his money and/or made him look like an ass without payback?

I don't know, he may have a point about Russo. If you ignore the quality of the material produced and go strictly by "who made the most money off of who and then ran away," a case could be made for Russo.

I'd have to agree that HHH has the potential to buttfuck Vince (figuratively, let's not start another rumor) more than any other wrestler ever has or likely ever will. Of course, one misstep and he will be buried like no other. "So uh Steph, I don't wanna uh get married. But uh I'm sure you'll uh be professional and not hold this against me uh..." "Of course Hunter. By the way, we're transfering you to Smackdown for a new angle. After you get a stinkface from Rikishi, it turns out you like them and follow him around beggining him to give them to you."

I would love Jericho winning the belt... if I had any confidence in WWE giving him a good run with the belt afterwards. Which I don't. Heel Jericho will be useless like before, somehow retaining titles through flukes or the interference of other heels. At least while HHH is rehabbing or honeymooning or shopping for roids or whatever. Then one day: Jericho: I am King of the World! Nobody can-- [HHH's music hits] HHH: Give me back my belt, pussy. Jericho: [bows head] Yes, sir. [hands over belt]

Because thanks to HHH, they know Booker isn't going anywhere. Same with RVD. RVD used to get much bigger reactions. Make him HHH's bitch, keep him off a few PPVs.... now the fans have been trained to know that RVD isn't going anywhere, so it's harder to get enthused about his matches.

THANK YOU. Anyone who thinks WWE's sole basis for giving someone a belt is having good matches is on crack. In fact, sometimes you wonder if they ever make that consideration. Hulk Hogan is one of WWE's most succesful champions, in drawing power and in mainstream recognition. Has he ever shown Ricky Steamboat-level skills? Nope. Was he insanely over and did crowds want to see more of him? Yep. So they put the belt on him. I hate Hogan, but even I won't deny that it was the right thing to do (In the 80s, anyway). So screw RVD's spotting selling and Booker's workrate. Do the crowds like them and want to see more of them? I would argue yes. That's all that matters. Although thanks to lousy booking and HHH burial, the fans are less enthused about them because they've learned they aren't going anywhere. I might add that when HHH sets up the pedigree, it's like someone hits the mute button. The audience knows the match is over. They don't boo, they don't scream "nooo," they are just deflated. At the end of HHH's matches, they should feel angry because that dirty heel got away with one again, but someday he'll get his, or they should be giggling because the face really kicked his ass. Depression is not what you want.

I think Howard Stern should work a program with Bob Holly. And he should be sure to make extra vicious fun of him before the match.