King Kamala

I'd still say X is a very good if not great WrestleMania. How is it any different than XX? Two great matches, another good one, and then a bunch of filler. Plus it has the MSG crowd. Has the WWE ever done a bad PPV from MSG? While it's ludicrous to say the show holds up as one of the best as a lot of people were saying 10-15 years ago, it's ludicrous to say it's "not good". Who ya crapping Cheech? I think I may have been a tad bit harsh on XV in the round table. Yes, it is one of the worst round tables. It is one of the worst Manias of all time for certain but I don't think it's one of the worst PPVs of all time and it's really not that much worse than a lot of PPVs of that era. At least, wrestling-wise, it's definitely a better show than IX. IX has a much stronger atmosphere though.

OriginalOrangeGoblin is up. Hawk was making up for some missed picks.

Oh god. Seether is the band that did the aformentioned hard rock cover of "Careless Whisper"? They're terrible. My cousin, whose favorite band is Slaughter (shitty '80s hair metal version) and loves Vanilla Ice's nu-metal material, says they're the worst band he's ever seen. That's saying something.

I could actually see a hard rock cover of "Electric Avenue" working. The lyrics kind of betray the original's fun '80s pop vibe. I'm sure this cover sucks though. Can't see a hard rock cover of "Careless Whisper" working at all. Ben Folds and Rufus Wainwright did a pretty good cover of it though when they went on tour together four years ago or so.

Yeah, boy I watched last night for the first time and it wasn't good. The Asshole Animals sketch was just awful. Weak premise, even weaker sketch. But as a whole, it wasn't an outright disaster. There's some potential though. I agree with pretty much everything KOAB said, The Roots are easily the best band in late night and he is a surprisingly decent interviewer. The audience isn't really familiar with Jimmy and Jimmy hasn't really developed a rhythm quite yet like all of the other hosts have over the years. He's got some potential but he's going to need some time to develop. I don't think he's going to get 2-3 years to build up a rhythm like Conan did though, he's got two formidable competitors in the second half of Kimmel and Craig Ferguson (who was beating Conan on occasion) plus cable plus the internet. I'm not sure how much time they're going to give him in this day and age. Depends on the ratings after the "new show" rub wears off and Conan and Leno move into their new time slots. Also did anybody else think that the crazy guy fencing Jimmy in Conan's old studio was going to be revealed as Conan himself?

Yeah...2nd grade, I was chasing after this girl I had a big crush on at the time and she kicked me in the dick. I guess love really does hurt sometimes. Yuck yuck yuck! It's also happened a few occasions during fights with my brothers but I don't think anybody's kicked me in the groin since I was 12 or so. Also to add to the getting hit in the groin with a football story, there's sadly been two occasions where I was in my backyard shooting hoops, absentmindedly dribbling the ball and lost in my thoughts when the ball somehow hit me in the nuts when it bounced up to comic effect (fortunately, I was alone on both occasions). I've mentioned this story before on the board and Czech asked me how the hell it happened and I really have no idea whatsoever.

I'm off the computer for a day and a half and I get Kinetic and Czech both name dropping me in a thread? Sweet. Yeah, usually I wouldn't be down for running tournament...but I'm on spring break for the next two and a half weeks and have no discernible plans other than going to Boston on the 23rd, so yeah....I'll run a stupid tournament if nobody else volunteers. I second an '80s tournament. For my money, that was the second best decade for pop music behind the '60s. I'd be pulling for "Electric Avenue" to make a deep run.

It's time for Part Two of our six part series of roundtables leading up to WrestleMania 25. This week, we cover WrestleMania VI through X. Before we get started, let's introduce our panel of experts. 909: Winner of a Lou Ferrigno lookalike contest King Kamala Classic: Three more payments and he'll be able to upgrade to Silver King Kamala Classic MilleniumMan 831: Representing MilleniumMen 1 through 1162 Bobby Rocks Rocks Rocks Till He Drops Drops Drops Barron Smues: Has anybody heard of this guy? I haven't. WrestleMania VI 909: I really liked it. WM 6 was a good example of showing that every match doesn't have to mean something, and that it also doesn't have to be "good." If the card is properly placed, it works. That worked. Best match on the show was obviously Hogan/Warrior. Best moment was the Andre retirement thing after Demos/CC. I could've done without the Savage mixed tag, but it served a purpose. King Kamala Classic: Anyways, I've always felt this show was slightly overrated. It's very well paced, got a great atmosphere. Sort of like WrestleMania III but unlike that show it doesn't have a great match to really anchor it. Some great moments (Hogan-Warrior, Andre's final major WWF match) but as a whole, the wrestling is kind of forgettable. Best match of the night I'd say is Jake-DiBiase (which could have been great if it went 5-10 minutes longer and had a finish but was good anyways) and I'd agree with King that the best moment was Andre decking The Brain. MillenniumMan831: Andre's face turn was definitely an unexpected perk of WMVI. Savage and Sherri's entrance was actually one of my favorite moments from the event. Roberts' prematch promo was chilling and Warrior/Hogan was FUCKING EPIC!!! Seeing Perfect have his perfect television record go down was sad (even has a 7 year old mark). Fun show but not a must-watch one Bob Barron: This is a fun show. Does there need to be 300 matches? No, probably not. But as everyone else said, Andre getting his farewell is great, and Hogan v. Warrior is a classic. I don't remember too much of this show, but Mary Tyler Moore sure didn't seem thrilled to be interviewed. Also DDP's Wrestlemania debut Smues: To tell the truth I've always found WM6 to be overrated as a whole. People tend to have warm feelings from the main event and let that color the rest of the show, which really wasn't that great. It's hard for me to even remember most of the undercard. Really the only match I'd call good outside of the main event was the Million Dollar belt match, maybe the rockers tag match. It's truly a show where the main event and the crowd saved it. Stick most any other main event in there and you have people calling it one of the worst WM's they've seen, I think. And not much on the show really mattered outside of the main event, and maybe the tag title match. I still to this day don't get the point of the Roddy Piper half blackface thing. And the match itself was dull and ended in a DQ so it was really worthless. All that said, the main event was epic, and lived up to the hype. Hogan doing a clean job to anybody at that point in time was a huge deal, and for two guys not known for bringing the goods in the ring they certainly did deliver. I also loved the atmosphere at Skydome. I guess with the main event included I wouldn't rank this as a 'bad' Wrestlemania, but it's not one I'm likely to pop into the DVD player when I'm bored. King Kamala Classic: I feel pretty much the same...it's a half decent Mania but I don't think it'd be one I'd watch on a regular basis. Bob Barron: 5-7 are all the same in the sense that they just try to put everyone on the roster King Kamala Classic: and man...they really blew Piper-Bad News Brown. That could have been a decent, throwaway midcard brawl but man that match sucked, doesn't help that it was between two guys that absolutely hate jobbing Smues: The only reason I even remember Piper-BNB is because of the half black interview. 909: Did the NAACP ever come down on Piper for that? The Anti-Defamation League? Smues: You would think somebody did, but I don't recall it happening. Found it less offensive and more retarded, but I'm white. MillenniumMan831: It's Piper, he's done worse King Kamala Classic: it didn't seem offensive or mean spirited...just kind of dumb. I think WrestleMania 6 may have been the moment Piper jumped the shark. Not to say he didn't have great moments afterwards but he was never quite the same. WrestleMania VII King Kamala Classic Sounds sort of unrelated but speaking of jump the shark...I was reading WrestleCrap's entry on the stupid WrestleMania VII instant replay debate segment and somewhere RD mentioned off hand that we can all agree that VII is one of the worst WrestleManias ever. That was the moment when that site jumped the shark. I wouldn't call WrestleMania VII one of the great WrestleManias of all time but it's one of the pretty damn good ones. Granted, I'm biased since it's the first one I remember watching via the magic of VHS. It's kind of like a better version of WrestleMania V and VI, unnecessarily trying to jam everybody on the roster but there are more good matches than those shows. Hart Foundation-The Nasty Boys, The Rockers- Faces of Fear, Savage-Warrior...all good to great stuff. Heck, Hogan-Slaughter is pretty underrated in terms of Hogan matches. Probably the last good Slaughter match certainly 909: That one's really good. Warrior/Savage is absolutely fantastic. So was Hogan vs. Slaughter, even though that angle was really shitty. Looking back objectively, it is a great WrestleMania. I've got no problem saying it MillenniumMan831: Yeah, I never really felt this WrestleMania. Probably because the main event angle was so weak. Though as a kid, I did enjoy Roberts/Martel (what can I say) and of course Warrior/Savage was so great. Something about a longtime heel getting forgiveness from the audience was so righteous back then. Harts losing the titles was a buzz kill as was poor Santana losing AGAIN. Bob Barron: Wrestlemania VII has way too many matches like the middle WMs, but it's a fun show. Warrior v. Savage is one of the most epic matches they've done, Hogan v. Slaughter is fine, and nothing on the show is too horrible, aside from the Japs v. Demolition match that has never made any sense. Smues: That anyone could call WM7 one of the worst boggles my mind. I'll never understand the hate for WMVII. As it was I'd call it a very good Wrestlemania, just short of being one of the best. And it's one of my favorites, probably my most watched below WM17. Give it pretty much ANYTHING ELSE as a main event and it probably is on the great Wrestlemanias list. Whereas the WM6 main event saved a crappy show, a crappy main event couldn't kill a great show. In terms of work rate yeah this isn't anything special, but it still delivers with the opening tag match and the retirement match. And in terms of entertainment there really isn't any part of the card that makes me want to skip to the next match. And something people never seem to mention is the use of celebrities on this one. Most of the time the Wrestlemania celebrities don't add anything, but I really enjoyed the backstage skits with Trebek and Regis. They still make me laugh. As for the main event, it sucks. There's no way around it, it sucks, and was stupid booking that this was the match in the first place. Hogan/Warrior 2 would have been better or any other match for that matter. On the upside, at least it's a crowd pleasing finish as the American beats the evil Iraqi for the title, and sends the crowd home happy. Overall it's just a really enjoyable show that's always worth a watch. Bob Barron: People just hate the Iraq angle so much that they write off the whole show Smues: Yeah, and it's a shame King Kamala Classic: it was a bad angle, but I would go as far as to say the match wasn't even all that terrible. Smues: because yeah that angle and match sucked, but the rest of the show was so fun. And they at least sent the crowd home happy with it. MillenniumMan831: Main event was alright but it was just so damn predictable King Kamala Classic: hot crowd too...I think it was almost served better by the smaller than usual arena 909: One thing I've never understood is how Mania didn't come back to LA until the 21st one Smues Oh yes, this was the 'bomb threat' show wasn't it. 909: The two Anaheim Mania's don't count Bob Barron: Isn't Anaheim the LA area though? King Kamala Classic: figured the WWF was counting those as LA Smues: Vince was probably bitter he couldn't sell whatever venue he was originally going to do WM7 in. It's still funny to watch WM6 and see the ad with Vince screaming about how 100,000 people or whatever the number is will fill the Coliseum for WM7. King Kamala Classic: I fondly remember the promos they stuck on WWF tapes leading up to VII with wrestlers on their way to the Coliseum for WrestleMania VII. The Bushwhackers are going to Bushwhacker walk their way to WrestleMania. I distinctly remember Dusty Rhodes hopping on the end of a garbage truck in one of those as well. Am I crazy or did these exist? Amusingly enough, none of those guys were at VII. Bob Barron: Heenan making excuses for people crying is hilarious. I met Alex Trebeck and kept bothering him about WM VII while speaking to him in the form of a question Smues: That reminds me that this was the first WM with Heenan on the stick. That probably helped my love of the show. You get one match with Duggan, and then they ditch him for Heenan awesomeness. WrestleMania VIII King Kamala Classic Pretty much the Best Mania ever up to this point, this was the last Mania with a ton of filler but it seems like its reduced compared to the previous three. Lots of great stuff here. Heenan and Monsoon on the mic. Hart-Piper, Savage-Flair, Warrior making his return, Taker beating the shit out of Jake the Snake. Again, just a really well paced Mania. I don't know what I think of the look though...I haven't seen the show in a few years (should bust out my VHS during spring break) but IIRC, it seems a bit too bright. Still a bit too much filler but the best Mania to this point. 909: This is my favorite WrestleMania. Yes, there's lots of filler, but it's placed well. Flair-Savage is just...amazing, and Bret-Piper is underrated in my view. Plus, Owen won. Big thumbs up to that one. Even Sid-Hogan is great in its own little way. That ending. MillenniumMan831: I actually think the junk is kept to a minimum. Sure, there's the 8-man and the 1 minute Owen/Skinner match but there was a lot of gold in this card. Nothing that hasn't been mentioned but just so much rewatchable stuff here (Snake passing the torch, Piper/Hart, Savage/Flair, Warrior's return, Luger's interview, Heenan/Monsoon after the Flair loss, etc.) Plus, it clocked in around 2:45 which makes it much easier to sit through Bob Barron: I love this show. Yes, it's a two match show, but the two matches are some of the best of the decade. Piper's one clean job makes him putting over Bret mean that much more, and Savage-Flair is just 20 minutes of great storytelling the commentary on the show is tremendous, and probably the best in WM history Also, what's with those Indians in Tatanka's match? I also like how the first three matches have HBK, Taker and Bret going over stars of the 80s Smues: Agreed on the too bright thing. The first thing I think of when I think about WMVIII is how bright it was. I didn't think it detracted from the show at all, it was just very noticeable. Like WMVII this is a great show with a shit main event. This show is just loaded with memorable matches and angles from top to bottom. And while the main event is a load of shit, it's still enjoyable in its own way. The crowd reaction to the return of the Warrior is something to behold. Plus Sid kicks out of the leg drop thanks to Papa Shango being late on the run-in, and that always makes me laugh. But I really wish Flair/Savage had been the main, because it's just a tremendous match and angle. Another Savage WM match that's an instant classic and booked perfectly. .Bret Hart/Piper is also great and one of the best Piper matches you'll ever see, including a clean job from Piper, something you never see. It doesn't hurt that it told a great story. Overall it's just a great show and it's a shame Flair didn't stick around for another Wrestlemania until 18. Bob Barron: I love Piper holding up the bell and the crowd spazzing out and Heenan going: WHAT THE HELL USE THE BELL 909: but anyway, that Piper Bret interview was the best thing on the whole show Smues: I just wish Hogan/Sid wasn't the main. Yeah the Warrior run-in was a great surprise, but not the best way to end the show Bob Barron: Perfect breaking up the three on the elbow is such a dick move. It pisses me off today watching it MillenniumMan831: I thought Monsoon was going to have a heart attack when Perfect was 3/4 in the ring Smues: The only bad thing about the Flair/Savage match I can say is they didn't deliver on the Liz nudes Flair with the great blade job too. If Flairs blond hair turns red it's a sign of a great match. King Kamala Classic I hate to speak ill of the dead but I see no need why the WWF had to bring in Ray Combs to ring announce at two PPVs. Again, finding something to complain about...not easy with VIII Smues You know I forgot about the ray Combs segment. I'll admit...it makes me laugh. I liked it. And that tag match was really short so it was inoffensive. King Kamala Classic I admit the heels flipping out at his lame jokes is funny. Smues: Not as short as the Owen match though. A squash so high on the card was kind of odd. King Kamala Classic I think the show was compressed for time and Owen-Skinner was meant to be am bit longer. hence also why they cut Bulldog-Berzerker. Though you think if they had to cut one match, Owen-Skinner would have been it. 909: Bulldog was in a big time sucking shit phase. King Kamala Classic: Bulldog-Berzerker was way higher...maybe they couldn't figure out a way to cut it down. On the old Coliseum tape, they apologize at the end for it not being on there. Bob Barron: a Bulldog fan, I accept their apology King Kamala Classic the first of three Manias in a row where they run over time and they cancel a match 909: Hate to say that Bulldog was so bad from the time he came back up until the Bret match at SS, but it's true Smues: Hmm, I have the coliseum tape back at my parents’ house, but I don't remember that. I do remember the tape for XII listing the geriatric match, yet it not being there. Bastards WrestleMania IX King Kamala Classic: yeah...boy...even as a mark, this show was a chore to sit through. It's about as hard to find something to compliment this show as it was to find something to complain about VIII. Will say this had a great, great atmosphere. One of the Top 5 Mania venues in terms of look. Steiners-Headshrinkers was sort of fun and Tatanka-HBK was OK and Heenan on the mic is always a good time but everything else....yeah. Bad, bad show. Weird that they sometimes follow up the best Manias with the worst (this and IV immediately spring to mind) 909: I hate this show so much. Quite literally, I cannot think of anything positive to say about it. Just a complete waste. Parts of Doink-Crush make me laugh a little, I guess. Mega Maniacs vs. Money Inc. is just so terrible, so horrendous, so time consuming. Just, ugh. MillenniumMan831: Yeah, not a dazzling WM by any means, but let’s see what was good about it . . . Shrinkers/Steiners was badass, Doink's illusion ruled, Razor bumping around for Backlund was fun, the Narcissistettes were HOT! . . . Oooo boy that will conclude the fun stuff about it. Everything else was crapola! Yokozuna found a way to cool off my WWF fandom for a year Bob Barron: Not much can be said about this one. It's just so bad. Steiners v. Shrinkers is fine, and ummm Bobby Heenan rode on a camel. Plus it's Jim Ross' debut. So does that count for something? Nothing much to say here, this show is just a three hour train wreck. Hogan winning the belt when looking as thin as a cruiserweight is funny Smues: First the good: Caesar's Palace was a great place for this show. I really loved the look of this show, and it's a shame it was so god awful of an actual in ring show. Umm, oh and the opening match was decent. And Undertaker had a vulture with him, there was that too! Now the bad: The best match was the opener. Not a good thing. The matches on this card blow. I'd blame the wrestlers, but even on paper this doesn't look like a good show. Then there's the booking. I don't even know where to start. The two Doink angle, who thought that, was a good idea? Team up Hogan and Beefcake for the tag titles, and let the match go on forever (I have no idea how long it really was, but it feels like its 20+ minutes) and then end that nightmare in a DQ? The entire main event clusterfuck? What? This show is so bad it's hard to even pick what the worst part was. Part of me wants to go with the main event. I mean, Bret Hart loses, just so Hogan can beat Yokozuna in a 30 second non match? Yes you have to send the fans home happy, but that should have involved Yoko not winning in the first place. But you can't talk about the worst of WM9 without mentioning Undertaker vs. Giant Gonzalez. A match that still haunts my nightmares. The main event stuff sucked, but at least it was somewhat exciting. This match was just bad on so many levels, and I wouldn't hesitate to give it a vote for worst match ever by a major fed. I'd rather watch Undertaker and Giant Gonzalez eat dinner then watch them have this match. It's just soooooooo bad. I can say without even thinking about it that Gonzalez is the worst worker I've ever seen, and Undertaker is NOT the guy you put in there to get a good match out of him. Pre-psycho murdering Chris Benoit would not be able to get a watchable match out of this guy. And if it wasn't bad enough, the booking was awful too. A chloroform soaked rag? Fuck you. If I never watch this PPV again it'll be too soon. 909 unfortunately I have it on tape, and have watched it at least four times MillenniumMan831: Imagine a Bret victory followed by a Hart/Hogan faceoff to end WrestleMania . . . would have been 100 times better than what we got King Kamala Classic when the show's highlights are the venue and Bobby Heenan riding on a camel backwards, you know it's pretty terrible. 909: the last time was to review it for my blog. It'll be staying the last time Bob Barron: I watched it once while being up for 35 hours not cool. King Kamala Classic Nerdy fantasy booking question; what would you have booked for this show? Smues: the Undertaker's vulture vs. Randy Savage would have been better than what we got. Ideally? Hogan vs. Bret, with Hogan leaving the WWF after to make movies Bob Barron: Double main of Bret/Savage and Hogan/Yoko King Kamala Classic: I don't see why Savage wasn't on the card. I would have at least done him and Perfect Vs Razor and The Narcissist Smues: Savage was at least entertaining on the mic. I remember at some point he says something about how "they're hanging from the rafters...well the Coliseum doesn't have rafters but it has columns, and they're hanging from the columns! 909: this would be one of very few cases where the summer slam card is undoubtedly better than that year's Mania card Bob Barron: It's always weird seeing people defend IX, I mean look how much we're reaching to say nice thing about it Smues: Anyone who defends WM IX either A. it was their first PPV they saw and have fond memories or B. they're just trying to go against the grain. 909 it is still the worst WWF/E PPV I've seen Bob Barron: Never seen kotr 95? 909I have. Still worse. Smues: I'd put it in the top 5, but nothing will touch KOTR 99. Mainly because I was there, but still Bob Barron: KOTR 95 and the ECW PPV are up there for me Smues: KOTR 99 is #1 with a bullet, and I'd say KOTR95 and RR99 are in the top sphere with WM9 King Kamala Classic: In Your House IV is up there as well. That's the one with Bulldog Vs Diesel on top 909: was at RR 99 and it was terrible, but not on that level King Kamala Classic: yeah RR 99 isn't a good show but I wouldn't call it one of the worst ever. Smues: RR99 was the first PPV I ordered live on TV, KOTR 99 was the first PPV I attended. Yeah it's amazing I'm still a fan 909: They showed IYH IV on 24.7 a while ago that one was something bad. They cut out Mabel vs. Yoko too. Bob Barron: I love the Bulldog more than anyone should, and I was dozing off bad during that match King Kamala Classic: usually those early IYH had one really good match (I had Bret-Hakushi, II had HBK-Jarrett) but that had nothing WrestleMania X King Kamala Classic Alright, I have a lot of nostalgia for this show since this was the first WrestleMania I remember happening as I was a fan (though I didn't see it till it was released on VHS a couple months later). Not a great show wrestling-wise but two undeniably excellent matches in HBK-Razor and Bret-Owen, a fun brawl between Savage and Crush, and the finish that should have ended IX...but I'll take it anyways. The rest of the card isn't anything special but nothing really overstays its welcome except maybe the other World title match even then you had to give it some time being a World title match and all I may have been the only one to have been disappointed to see Sparky Plugg/123 Kid/Tatanka/Smoking Gunns Vs IRS/Rick Martel/Jeff Jarrett/The Headshrinkers cut... Why couldn't they have cut the mixed tag match instead? The ten man tag probably would have been half decent! Anyways, even though might not be one of the greatest WrestleManias but it’s certainly one of my favorites. Also, you have to love the MSG atmosphere. 909: You are not the only one that was disappointed to see that match cut... Anyway, what purpose did Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb serve? What a waste of two minutes I'm just glad MOM didn't win the belts from the Quebecers on this show. Making a good one great. Everything good that could be said about the two ***** matches has been said. Luger vs. Yoko is just what happens when you put Luger in against someone that isn't good. And what happens when Yoko has to wrestle more than 10 minutes. Ending's great. Really strong show. MillenniumMan831: I got to be honest; I really didn't like this WrestleMania. Yoko about killed my interest in the WWF around this time so I didn't get into most of the angles. However, anything involving Bret Hart was awesome as was Savage's in-ring farewell after his match. Good shit there. Never cared for the Ladder Match other than Michaels's belly flop off the ladder. I don’t know, just never got into the Razor/Michaels feud. Kind of a disappointing Mania but the Hart celebration at the end made up for it Bob Barron One of the best Manias of all time. Hart v. Hart is the best match I've ever seen, and that one victory roll put Owen Hart on the map and permanently established him as someone to be taken seriously. Then you have HBK and Razor putting the ladder match on the map, and turning Shawn and ladders into stars. There's a lot of filler in between those great matches, but it's just a fun show with a good atmosphere. The special surprise refs is really cool, Luger choking will never not be funny, Savage gets one last Wrestlemania moment and Piper being named ref, Piper decking Cornette, Bret winning the belt back, the in-ring celebration, Owen staring a hole through him. Burt Reynolds. This is a fantastic show Smues: This is totally a two match show, but both of those matches were great and plenty enough to carry the show. There are some other decent matches, but nothing particularly good. Those matches of course being Bret vs. Owen and the ladder match. Bret vs. Owen was a great technical match, and the ladder match defined what a ladder match should be, and was one of the early 'holy shit!' matches I remember. I don't remember anything being terribly offensive on this show, other than letting Yoko wrestle two matches. Who in the world thought that was a good idea? The guy can't wrestle one match well; let's make him do it twice! Of course it's not like he could have been tired for his second match, as all he did in the Lugar match basically was put Lugar in the pinch hold thing for ten minutes. One of the most boring world title matches ever held at Wrestlemania. And the ending with Perfect turning on Lugar still makes me scratch my head. Speaking of head scratchers, the hair club for men dude bringing out the Fink with a wig on made no sense. And this was also the show with the Bill Clinton impersonator in the crowd. That was really pointless. I will admit liking Rhonda Sheer of USA UP all night fame and Burt Reynolds appearance though. Bob Barron: It was supposed to go somewhere, but Perfect bailed on the company King Kamala Classic: Perfect- Luger was supposed to be the big post WrestleMania house show feud but Perfect couldn’t get ensured or something. Smues: Another good thing about this show that I think some people forget is not only did we get the great moment with Bret getting the belt back and everyone running out to celebrate with him, but they instantly built his next feud with Owen. I really like how as soon as the show was over you already knew the direction things were going to go, something usually lacking in the WWE. This show also seemed to mark a change in style for the federation as a whole, with the transition from Yokozuna 'large fat man' punching and kicking and rest holds to Bret Hart technical wrestling. Always a good thing. A really great Wrestlemania wedged in between two bad ones. Bob Barron: I think Perfect's argument is that he wouldn't count the pin with people in the ring Smues: Did they ever even explain the Perfect turn on TV before he bailed? Bob Barron: and then Luger touched him which is DQ Smues: Hmm. The best I could figure out was he was mad about WM9. That logic only came to me when I watched WM10 right after WM9, so I'm sure that wasn't the case Hadn't Perfect already taken a whole shitload of money from Lloyd's of London at that point? King Kamala Classic: I think so. Perfect was also supposed to be the mystery man that turned out eventually to be The Butcher that year in WCW. Smues: I remember Perfect being in the WWF in like...96? So what did he do after WM10 but before then? Bob Barron: He just sat at home and collected his insurance money 909: then he announced and did it terribly

Yeah, Ventura always seemed to hint that he was going to come out of retirement and go after Hogan during his commentary days but I guess his health never recovered enough (Though he did have a match in '90 teaming with Piper against The Orient Express which was taped for the TV pilot they did that never made it to series). I imagine that Ventura would have been up there with Piper and Andre in terms of big money Hogan feuds. Ventura is essentially the evil version of Hogan.

Jesse Ventura is definitely the steal of the draft. The first guy picked that I thought had just assumed had been picked rounds ago. If I had known, he was still on the board I would have picked him to be the holder of my secondary title instead of Jarrett. Oh well. Kahran's put together a hell of a roster thus far. IMHO, a Cena-Ventura feud would be gold. Fake edit: And I forgot that Kahran's territory is located in Minneapolis. God damn, that makes that pick even better.

I know Venkman has mentioned me in the past as someone to help him run the wrestling subforum and I'll tell you straight away that I do not want the job. It's driven Dandy and Cheech crazy, it's driven Venkman crazy. No, sir, it's not for me. This is not an attempt at reverse psychology. I flat out do not want to be in charge of the mouthbreathers in WWE Folder. If I could just be in charge of General, that would be great. But I have no interest in being charge of the 'tard patrol. I'll nominate my good man, Mellowblissful for the position (if Venk is really serious about leaving. My sarcasm meter may be on the fritz)

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I had a dream a couple nights ago where ol' Hacksaw died. It wasn't an integral plot point of the dream just something I heard in the background in it. I was glad to wake up and find that he was still alive and doing dopey videos on WWE.com.

Looking at his behavior over the course of this thread, it's to see why Twisted Intestine only got like two votes in the Poster Tournament a few months back...

Sorry Czech for the odd grammatical errors, I'm have finishing paper for my course on Western Intervention in The Middle East/half boarding hard. I met a guy who was a massive Aqua fan at a theater day camp I went to back in middle school. Man was he gay. We almost got into a fistfight during a particularly intense game of Capture The Flag. I'm glad I didn't because I found out that the kid was apparently a black belt in Tae-Kwon Do. I would have never lived down getting the shit beat out of me by an effeminate gay guy ...even at a theater day camp.

If This Is It Do You Believe In Love? I hated it whenever they showed up on VH1's The Big 80s when I was a lad but now I'm becoming to like Huey Lewis and The News. I'm not sure if it's the mention of them in American Psycho or his role in Short Cuts that caused the reappraisal. I think they're endearingly middle of the road. They're pretty much the Hootie and The Blowfish of the '80s. If those guys deserved a defense than these guys sure as hell do. If "Do You Believe In Love?" doesn't cause you to crack a smile than you truly have no soul. Have I mentioned that The News were Elvis Costello's backup band on My Aim Is True. That's got to help their hipster cred somehow!

You live another day, Tominator! Hell of a pick there though. With my next picks, I'm going to add some international flavor to my roster and give Londrick their opponents for my big super show. It'll be a clash between the All-American Pretty Boy babyfaces and the unpredictable evil foreign heels. I expect the match between the two teams to be a show stealer. Anyways, the first half of the team is a guy who was a big bright spot in an otherwise terrible period in the history of the WWF. He was way ahead of his time and impressed the hell out of a seven year old King Kamala Classic. He also has one of the most distinct looks in professional wrestling. He's a former AJPW All Asia Tag Team Champion. The second half is one of the most extreme high flyers in Japanese wrestling, unfortunately his high-flying style cut his career short. He's a three time FMW Brass Knuckles Champion as well as a former AJPW All Asia Tag Team Champion. With my next two picks, I'm proud to select... Jinsei Shinzaki and Hayabusa

Tominator is next followed by myself and then Tominator again.

As for Dark Journey, I think she's the subject of a long running joke on Wrestling Classics (or Kayfabe Memories...one of the old school boards I frequent) about how no one has any idea where she went. I vaguely recall someone saying she wanted nothing to do with the business anymore.

...tominator better not steal either of the guys I have in mind or I'll kill him in his sleep!* *or I'll just grit my teeth and tell him "Nice pick"

Well I think Garth can pick. I see you there, bud!

al's got about ten minutes left before his pick expires and Garth can pick. Man, this draft has been slow going over the past two or three days. What's up?\ I as well am digging the heck of Kahran's roster thus far. I very nearly picked The Dream Team to lead my tag team division but decided to go the babyface route for my first team pick.

Grr...it seems like all my backup picks are being taken. I would have used Sasuke and another Japanese light heavy in a makeshift tag team against Londrick. My #1 option is still on the board...just sort of setting me up for disappointment!

Last time I saw him I thought he went about a half hour too long. He played for like three hours. It was odd....great show overall though, just too much Songs For Silverman crap at the beginning.

Hey now, I was a snotty, pleated khaki wearing high school theatre dork...I believe Czech was as well (though he was probably more band geek than theatre geek). Naturally, I enjoy Ben Folds Live as well as his less heralded, second live album Songs For Goldfish. My brother also has a few bootlegs and from what I've heard, those sound pretty good as well.

Just for fun, here's a fantasy WrestleMania IX card I posted on another board where that kind of thing is more acceptable WrestleMania IX April 4th, 1993 Live from Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, Nevada WWF World title Bret Hart © Vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (Bret goes over the veteran in a back and forth 20-30 minute match with both men shaking hands at the end) Hulk Hogan Vs Yokozuna (With Mr. Fuji) (Schmozz finish with Hogan going over either via DQ or with Fuji accidentally throwing salt in Yoko's eyes. Sets up a rematch at King of The Ring with Yokozuna going over as he did in real life. This will set up Yokozuna beating Bret for The WWF World title and a rematch at WrestleMania X with Bret going over as he did in real life) Mr. Perfect Vs The Narcissist (Narcissist goes over, perhaps via cheating. Another example of the New Generation going over the old guard) The Undertaker (with Paul Bearer) Vs Giant Gonzalez (with Harvey Whippleman) (Sadly, I couldn't think of another opponent for 'Taker here. What I'd do actually is have Gonzalez demolish Taker in a quick 5-10 minute match and build up to Taker getting his revenge at SummerSlam. Sure it ends Taker's streak but it avoids having this match the way it was.) WWF Intercontinental title match Shawn Michaels © Vs Tatanka (Couldn't think of a better opponent for HBK than the one we got and the match was one of the few watchable ones of the night. I'd have a cleaner finish though. Probably HBK wins via cheating and ends Tatanka's streak and reaffirms his reputation as dickhead heel) WWF Tag Team titles match Money Inc © Vs The Steiner Brothers (The Steiner Brothers go over in a back and forth competitive 15 minute match) Crush Vs Doink The Clown (Crush goes over cleanly, finally getting his revenge on The Clown (despite some shenanigans) and builds himself up to challenge for the IC title or Yokozuna) Razor Ramon Vs Bob Backlund (Same result as before) "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan and The Nasty Boys Vs Bam Bam Bigelow and The Headshrinkers (Just a fun sounding six man tag to throw some guys in who I thought should be on the card but weren't. Also fits under the New Generation Vs Old Dudes card. Obviously have Bam Bam and The Shrinkers go over the departing guys)