King Kamala

I like it as well. Really, I think some DVDs deserve their own thread and it wouldn't be fitting to do one on say The Mr. Perfect DVD in the WWE folder.

Hmmm...a Let Us Talk About thread...I'm going to look and see if I have a case for suing them for copyright infringement.

Welcome folks to a new mini-series of roundtables where some of the wrestling folders' most respected posters will take a look back at WrestleManias through the years. Let's introduce our participants; Alkeiper: Expert in the only things that matter in life (baseball, pornography, and pro wrestling) and all around good guy. Dandy: Top 32 poster of '08. Close personal friend of Matt Young. Hunter's Torn Quad: Former moderator for the wrestling board. His knowledge of professional wrestling, especially on the historical side, is unmatched. MilleniumMan831: WWE Legacy expert and '80s WWF connoisseur. King Kamala Classic: Some jerk. Our leader for this journey through time. WrestleMania Alkeiper:I think Wrestlemania 1 gets a bad rap. Fans compare it to subsequent PPVs when the concept of a wall-to-wall supercard was not really established yet. You had big matches, but mostly it was about loading the top of the card. Wrestlemania 1 was about star power, and they loaded up on celebrities and big moments. The main event tag was more than passable for a celebrity match Dandy: Good point, Al. Looking back, it might be seen as a disappointment. However, this was their first attempt at a huge show. It also doesn't hold up as well due to the wrestling style evolving into what it has become. Some of the big moves back then were bodyslams and backbrackers. If you saw a piledriver, it was quickly followed by paramedics draping a sheet over the guy. This entire thing was to officially kick off the Rock 'n' Wrestling experience. Hogan and Piper delivered, as I don't think there goal was to put on a mat clinic. Wrestlemania definitely achieved its goal. Hunter’s Torn Quad: It's not always about how you start the race. Cosmetically speaking, WM I doesn't match up to future ones, either in terms of match quality, glitz or anything else, but at the time it was huge and that's all that matters It was your basic card with big, in terms of star power, main event. It might not have delivered the snowflakes, but it didn't have to, nor was it designed to. It was designed to kick off the period Rock 'n' Wrestling and it did it in grand fashion. King Kamala Classic: I can understand the show's historical importance and I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far but at the same time I can also say that even by 1985 standards, the card is kind of dull wrestling-wise. It sort of has the feel of a bleh MSG show with some celebrities thrown out there. Presentation wise (outside of the aforementioned celebs)- I don't really think there's anything that differentiated it from the average MSG card actually. Like I think's been said the spectacular presentation that we associate with WrestleMania didn't really come into place until III. But yeah- one of those shows that I understands its importance but I don't really care for watching. MillenniumMan831:Obviously, most of the matches just come and go, unlike most MSG shows, there seemed to be a healthy buzz the entire night. I had a friend over to watch No Way Out. He's a bare bones casual fan, but when he saw the WM1 recap package, he was amazed by the amount of celebrities "Holy Shit! This is all one event?!?" was the gist of it. Plus unlike Crockett, it was giving the fans what they wanted . . . Andre over Studd, Richter over Kai, Hogan/T over Piper/1derful. The image of T having Piper up in the fireman's carry w/ Hogan pointing to the heavens is pretty awesome Alkeiper: I would say that rather than the beginning of Rock n Wrestling, this was the culmination MillenniumMan831: I agree King Kamala Classic: yeah I'd agree. I think it had been building up since Hogan beat Sheiky Baby. Dandy I both agree and disagree Depending on how you view it. This was when it "arrived" on a national level as the entire event was basically "Here's the next big thing, America!" by Vince McMahon and his promotion. Alkeiper. And Richter/Moolah was on MTV in the Summer of '84. THAT was the beginning, IMO King Kamala Classic I think it became even more kid-oriented though after WrestleMania I Dandy: I don't think "Rock 'n' Wrestling was adult-oriented. It was meant to tie in the celebrity aspect with carnival wrestling sideshow. Hunter’s Torn Quad: It definitely turned almost entirely family friendly after WM 1 Dandy: Bundy trying to kill Hogan and was family-oriented? Hunter’s Torn Quad: 'Almost' MillenniumMan831: I'd say it was more family oriented than kid oriented Dandy: They had day-time shows and a cartoon show...that had to have family-oriented programming. However, that was just diversification. alkeiper so best match was probably Hogan/T vs. Piper/Orndorff King Kamala Classic: yeah I'd probably agree the main event was the best. alkeiper : As an aside, Blassie's post-match protestation that he didn't carry a cane deserves a mention as a great moment. Dandy: I agree on the match. It had a big-time feel to it, and was very entertaining. Good promoting and star power won out. MillenniumMan831: I still don't believe Buddy Rose was the Executioner King Kamala Classic: Tito gets his first (and only) WrestleMania victory MillenniumMan831: Poor Tito did have to overcome a lot of cheating by heels in subsequent years Alkeiper: For worst match, I'll actually go with JYD/Valentine. Andre/Studd and Richter/Moolah weren't tremendous, but they had memorable moments King Kamala Classic: I remember David Sammartino/Brutus Beefcake being kind of lousy and sort of long given the pace of the rest of the card. Alkeiper: oh yeah, forgot Sammartino/Beefcake MillenniumMan831 Nothing shouted out to me THIS MATCH SUCKS King Kamala Classic: yeah, same. Nothing was particularly great, nothing was particularly lousy.Just kind of bleh, wrestling wise WrestleMania 2 alkeiper: Wrestlemania 2 of course gave us the three arena format, obviously an attempt to top Jim Crockett running two arenas for Starrcade '85. What is forgotten is that closed circuit was still a viable entity in this era, so the idea of running multiple live shows was appealing. The fans would pay extra for a live show, and still see the closed circuit portion of the card.What failed here more than anything is that the NYC portion of the event failed to deliver, and gave us what is still WM's worst match in Mr T vs. Piper. Bulldogs v Dream Team was a very good match, JYD/Santana v the Funks is a forgotten gem. The battle royal was entertaining, and the Hogan/Bundy cage match was watchable. Dandy: I don't know what you are smoking, Al, but Mr. T vs. Piper in a boxing match is not the worst Mania match ever. It should be put up against other non wrestling events at Mania, and the sumo match was way worse. To me, there were better matches, less jobbers, and a better main event due to it being a singles match, and in a CAGE no less. I can't believe that this was the only cage macth in Mania's history, as was stated on the recap a couple weeks ago. Al was spot on with the three different arenas aspect of live gate, merchandise, etc., and I liked that each arena had its own "main event." They were still toying with the format of Wrestlemania at this point, and they hadn't exactly caught lightning in a bottle yet. Pretty memorable event and a step up over the first Mania in my opinion. Hunter’s Torn Quad: I think this WM was built around two things; the novelty of seeing a mini-card live and the rest of the show on closed circuit, and the idea that an injured Hulk Hogan is getting inside of a cage with a 400lbs monster who very well may squash him into a pancake. You had the celebrites, too, so there was the glitz there. But this was sold on the three locations deal, as well as the idea that the hero to millions is going into the fight of his life, injured, against a behemoth, inside of a cage, and he might not make it out in one piece, if at all. As a show, it was ok, but I don't know that it was considered a good follow up to the first one. Next King Kamala Classic: I saw this show the first time via the Coliseum video and I absolutely hated it. Thought it was one of the worst WrestleManias ever but then a couple years back I watched the live version and it improved vastly. I think that Coliseum version has put WrestleMania 2 in the discussion of worst WrestleMania ever. It just feels really rushed and kind of odd. But yeah---the unedited version is a big improvement. I wouldn't call it a great show or even a good one but it's a step up from WrestleMania I wrestling wise. Both of the tag team matches are a hell of a lot of fun. Steamboat carries Hercules to a decent match. I'm a sucker for battle royals and the NFL/WWF battle royal is one of my favorites. Hogan/Bundy isn't a bad Hogan/fat guy formula match. Obviously they were still working out the kinks. The guest celebrity announcers in each city was a pretty lame idea. Oh man, Susan St. James may have been as bad as Art Donovan. The NYC portion as a whole was lame but overall an improvement over WrestleMania I. MillenniumMan831: No way was Susan St James anywhere near as bad as Art Donovan , yeah they went balls to the wall on the celebrities, guest timekeepers, ring announcers, gatekeepers, and judges blitzed this 3hr WM. I didn't mind the format as a one time deal. Doesn't hurt to try. The NY version was crapola. Should have shaved a round off of Piper/T as that started to drag. The two tag matches were extremely fun and easy to watch as was seeing Adonis bump, flail, and flip around Los Angeles. The battle royal was hot w/ Fralic and Perry turning in some nice performances. The cage match didn't do wonders for me but I didn't hate it either. As a kid, I actually liked seeing Savage getting crapped on by Steele only for him to get a cheap win. Look at the hair on that torso.And St James having a feminine voice makes her miles ahead of Donovan w/ his loud piercing tone alkeiper: I'll defend Piper vs. T as the worst match because it went on far longer than most bad matches. Nothing else to add really on this one. King Kamala Classic: Was there really a need to bring T back again anyways? His star had fallen quite a bit from WrestleMania I to 2 and it wasn't like there were any resolved issues between the two I don't think MillenniumMan831: Piper's post match interview was phenominal by the way. Aren't I the handsomest thing. T did work out well in WMI so it was natural to see if there was any milk left to draw out of him Dandy I think they hoped for T to go into wrestling full time as a guy that had crossover appeal.Match of the night for me was the Main Event as a little kid, but that might change if I had a recent viewing of this show unedited. King Kamala Classic: I like both of the tag team matches. Hard to pick a favorite between the two. alkeiper: Bulldogs v Dream Team is my favorite match, the ending with the Bulldogs winning the titles puts it over the top Dandy I don't remember thinking the flag match was anything better than horrible, so that would probably be my worst. MillenniumMan831: Orndorff/Muraco was horrible given the starpower King Kamala Classic: Savage/Steele is a rare crappy Savage match from the '80s so I'll pick that. George Welles-Jake Roberts was also a mighty lethargic squash. Man, I guess the whole NYC portion ties for worst match! Dandy: What could Savage do in that situation, though? The whole premise with Steele was that he was as close to an ape as it got, and he didn't really understand wrestling. King Kamala Classic: true Alkeiper: I don't mind Savage/Steele. It was a bad match yes, but that feud has iconic status in wrestling lore MillenniumMan831: I must also say . . . poor Velvet alkeiper: and in its way, really established the Savage/Elizabeth dynamic King Kamala Classic: yeah I never particularly cared for that match or feud but I was watching in retrospect. alkeiper Piper/T HAS to be the worst match of the evening, it was one of those matches that exposes the business, badly Hunter’s Torn Quad: Easily the worst. WrestleMania III alkeiper: Wrestlemania III. Whether it was 93000 or 78000, holy crap that's a big crowd. Considering the record attendance was somewhere around 43000 for Kerry Von Erich-Ric Flair, what WWE had done in the Silverdome and the year before at Exhibition Stadium in Toronto was truly impressive.. There is not much to say about the card that hasn't been said, but I'll defend Steamboat/Savage's status as a ***** classic. Dandy: As a kid, the build-up to this show had me hook, line and sinker. I felt so betrayed that Andre turned his back on all us fans, and I couldn't see any chance of Hogan winning. There were a lot of good of things in this show, and a couple of bad things. However, the show as a whole was a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. THIS was why Wrestlemania is what it is today. Hunter’s Torn Quad: This WM more than any other gets looked back on with rose colored glasses. As a spectacle, it's the biggest one of 80s simply because of the huge crowd. However, apart from the quality of Steamboat/Savage and the spectacle of Hogan/Andre, this doen't have a whole lot going for it, other than the crowd. If you're looking for an example of a WM that's style over substance, this is it. It's a big show on the surface, but looking deeper, there wasn't really a whole lot to it. Then again, there didn't really need to be. King Kamala Classic: Hmm...I agree and disagree with you there. There isn't a whole of greatness outside of Steamboat-Savage but I think the style almost makes up for the lack of substance with the rest of the show and with Savage/Steamboat and the main event (and I'd add Piper's "retirement" match to the list of spectacles), what else do you really need? The undercard isn't particularly memorable but nothing really overstays its welcome and as you said, the crowd helps a ton. The card is also really well paced. I would say it's far from the greatest WrestleMania but perhaps- the most important. MillenniumMan831: WMIII is definitely the most eye-pleasing WM of all time. 12 Matches and none of them sucked. Sure only one classic but the card moved at a great clip. Everyone forgets but Danny Davis getting his ass kicked was a nice treat.. WMIII really made wrestling look sophisticated and in. A 5-star production that I would assume gave wrestling less of a hillbilly preception than in years past. Speaking of Hillbillies, someone had to mention Bundy nailing Beaver King Kamala Classic: Match of the night for III is obvious..."The Birdman" Koko B. Ware Vs Butch Reed! MillenniumMan831 I already referenced my favorite match Alkeiper: Best is Savage/Steamboat of course. Worst on its own merits is obviously Hogan/Andre King Kamala Classic: Hogan/Andre matches are pretty lousy as I've said on the board a couple of times WrestleMania IV alkeiper: Wrestlemania IV is all about the tournament. This show would have been a LOT better if they cut it down to an eight man field. This show really is a chore though. Savage/DiBiase is good stuff, but it takes nearly four hours to get there. Hunter’s Torn Quad This was really bad. The matches weren't good, with only the tag title match and the main event being above average, and everything else sub-par or worse. The atmopshere was akin to that of a wake at times. Nobody seemed too interested in anything other than Hogan and it made a bad night worse. I'd say that, all things considered, this is easily one of the worst Wrestlemania's of the lot. Next King Kamala Classic Yeah, I think I like this show a bit better than either of you two but that's primarily out of nostalgia (this was the first tape I "owned"). It's just very, very, very long and the crowd is very very dead. The matches involving Savage and DiBiase are mostly pretty good and the tag team match is also worthwhile. I'm also a sucker for battle royals and the one here is one of my favorites but yeah----not too many other highlight. Except of course the aforementioned Bob Uecker appearances. Andre choking him is the image I take away from this show for some reason. MillenniumMan831: Bob Uecker had me begging for each match to hurry up and end so we could follow up on his conquest of Vanna. One of those nostalgia shows, but yikes that 1st round was no fun at all. Shave those 6 matches off, and this event probably gets looked at more fondly. Muraco/DiBiase is a bit underrated in my view. I remember the kid next to Trump halfass marking out at Demolition's win. Jesse getting a little choked up at Savage's title-winning celebration was a nice touch . . . unless that was just some saliva going down the wrong pipe ConnMan520 (9:34:11 PM): Match of the night...Savage/DiBiase obviously. Worst match...Jake Roberts/Rick Rude. Man, that match was boring. Alkeiper: and I agree with those match selections Hunter’s Torn Quad As do I. Roberts/Rude was one long rest hold MillenniumMan831 : A long rest hold and a whiffed kneelift King Kamala Classic: Warrior/Hercules is pretty lousy too but I guess they had to stick Warrior on the card somehow. MillenniumMan831: Muraco/Bravo was pretty pootsy too alkeiper: We had Matilda attempting to hump Heenan instead of attacking him, but that seemed like a more suitable ending for the Brain anyway. Let me take this opportunity to segue to WM 5 by talking about the venue. The Trump Plaza really didn't seem suitable as a sporting venue in general, Wrestlemania or otherwise. It just looked like a gigantic prom hall, allowing Trump to buy the show or whatever occured was a mistake. King Kamala Classic: I liked the look of Trump Plaza, the wrestlers climbing down the long steps but wow----those crowds sucked. WrestleMania V Alkeiper: WM 5 is all about Hogan/Savage, your enjoyment of this show will depend almost entirely on how you enjoy the Savage/Hogan/Elizabeth angle. Rockers/Twin Towers and Owen/Perfect are the only things I really enjoy from this show Hunter’s Torn Quad I would agree with al, in that this WM is all about the main event. If you're into the angle, great. If not, you're in for a long night. As with the year before, the matches are generally sub-par and the atmosphere is terrible The only real highlights are the main event and the Rude/Warrior finish. Other than that, there isn't much this show has to offer. Next King Kamala Classic: Yeah, I don't see why WrestleMania IV gets pegged as one of the worst and this one has a fairly decent reputation. V is nearly as long and nearly as crappy as IV. That being said, I do enjoy it a bit out of nostalgia. All of the matches al mentioned are a lot of fun.. Plus for some reason, the segment of Fuji running (and winning!) the WrestleMania V fun run (in his suit) in preparation for the 3 on 2 match always makes me laugh. MillenniumMan831: Even though this WM is as long as IV, it doesn't drag quite as much. Probably since everyone wrestles once. Martel's heel turn was great even though he kind of bumbled through his promo a bit. Not all junk by any means but when you sit through 3.5 hours of wrestling w/ no wacky stipulations, you get burned out in a hurry. That said, the main event was stellar so that should keep V out of the garbage bin. Plus, I did mark out for Gorilla's disgust w/ Heenan bringing Lombardi out w/ him for his match. Chill out Gino, he was jobbing to Jim Powers two months ago. King Kanmala Classic Best match...Savage/Hogan, Worst match...Andre/Jake easy alkeiper What is everyone's opinion of Piper's Pit? King Kamala Classic : it's a fun segment but it drags MillenniumMan831 Downey did school Piper for the most part Hunter’s Torn Quad: I remember watching it and wishing it would just end already MillenniumMan831: I liked Downey's entrance tune. Don't blow no mo shmoke in mah face! King Kamala ClassicRun DMC was also really extraneous and why the hell did Rockin' Robin sing The National Anthem? MillenniumMan831 Cause Sherri wouldn't job to her? Nah, I dunno alkeiper: yeah, Run DMC was a complete waste of time King Kamala Classic: Just odd when you look at the list of anthem singers...Mean Gene, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, Rockin' Robin. 3 out of 5 ain't bad. So...any final thoughts on the era of WrestleMania before we finish. Final thoughts? MillenniumMan831 : Quality notwithstanding whenever I pop in a tape of an old WM, it's likely to be one of the 1st 5 moreso than any other era Hunter’s Torn Quad This era is one for the nostalgia buff only Alkeiper A good start historically, remembered mostly through rose colored glasses. there are some hidden gems though MillenniumMan831 I put my rose colored glasses on merrily King Kamala Classic: I'm kind of the same. I wouldn't call any of these my favorites but thanks to my nostalgia, wouldn't call any of these the worst either. Actually IV is pretty bad! I can't defend that not being in The Bottom 5 or so. Other than that however, I find myself returning to these shows a lot even if wrestling-wise they don’t hold up to some of the more recent Manias. Sorry the format is a bit hard to read. I'm a bit pressed for time as I'm going out of town this weekend but I hope you enjoy the content.

I was about to post the same thing. Wow...just wow...

In a similar vein, Shelton Benjamin's "Mama" being the same woman that originally played Donovan McNabb's mama.

I had tubes put in my ear to improve my hearing back when I was 5 or 6. Only a few vague memories of it. I could only eat soft foods for a couple days. What I remember most oddly enough is my dad picking me up from the hospital and stopping at a gas station and a guy in a Ninja Turtle costume being there, banging on the window while my dad was paying for the gas or whatever, and me getting out to greet him. This was in the waning days of TMNT's popularity ('93-'94ish)...so I'm not sure if this actually happened or was some sort of drug induced hallucination. This was actually the first of several odd meetings between me and people dressed as childrens television stars.

11-15 is already full (though bear in mind Venkman is sure to back out for the third week in a row) but 16-20 has a few slots open and it's open season 21-24 and 25...though I doubt there's a terrible amount of interest in this folder in those.

Well, once again, King Cucaracha is not around and he gave me carte blanche to draft for him this weekend while Mellow's not around. So I figured I'd do so before I went to bed. This next guy is a man who has been able to pull off many roles over his career; angry, militant heel, powerhouse baby face, and for the past few years, as a comedy wrestler. I'm assuming King is taking him in the second role. He was the first ever African American WCW World Champion (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but perhaps the first African American to win a World title in any major promotion) as well as a former WCW World Team Champion, a three time former WWF Tag Team Champion, and an NWA Florida Heavyweight Champion as well as a member of The College Football Hall of Fame. Ladies and gentlemen, with the next pick in the All Time Wrestling Roster Draft, King Cucaracha selects... Ron Simmons

*bump* Listened to this again on account of a non Ben Folds fan telling me he liked it. Still not very good. "You Don't Know Me" is the only one I really like. There are few songs that are tolerable and the rest is crap. I'm not sure where I stand on the worst album argument. Way To Normal aims higher and falls flat on its face. Songs For Silverman aims much lower and almost succeeds. I enjoyed three songs on that one, which is two more than Way To Normal. As for his next step, I think he should probably do a back to basics album ala the first two Ben Folds Five albums. Just piano, drums, and bass. It's a pipe dream but I can hop.e

Fountains of Wayne still rocked the shit...but just in a slightly quieter way. Like I said, being unplugged didn't really change the set all that much. It was nice though to go to a show and not have your ears ringing for days after. I saw them do a free show a couple years ago in Copley Square Park in Boston, which was also was really good (probably a bit better than the acoustic show). I'm undecided over to whether or not, I'm going to see OK Go next Friday at a new all ages club in Portland. I like them well enough and I'm sure they put on a fun live show but it's my first night back home on spring break and I'm not sure if I want to spend $16 on a band I only kind of like. Graham Parker on the 28th is also a possibility. The club he's playing at is super small, couldn't fit more than 200. Wonder if he's still good live.

Amusing early Conan clip. The Newlywed-Type Game. Ben and Jerry Vs Kid 'N' Play

Having to begin writing a paper on modernization in the Middle East on the nicest day in months. Arg! So boring!

Ditto, al. On my list of top 8 or so tag teams that I had before my last pick, six of the teams were heels.

Backlund is a damn fine pick at this stage of the game. If I wasn't so intent on picking a tag team, I probably would have picked him up. Though I'm not sure if I would've used him as a clean-cut, white bread All American babyface or crazy old man heel.

Incredibly well. As dorky as it sounds, I consider my dad to be one of my best friends. My mom can be a bit of a nag but you can probably say that about 90% of mothers (hell, 90% of women in general). If anything, I think they're too soft on me...but I should probably enjoy their attitude towards me, I think they'll be pressing for me to get the hell out in two years when I graduate college. That's sort of how it went with my older brother.

Alright, my next pick might seem a bit odd to some considering most of my roster is centered around big, powerhouse type wrestlers but I'd like my roster to be a bit diverse. I imagine like the WCW undercard of the late '90s, these guys will serve as a nice contrast to and will help pump up the crowds for the main event. Hopefully, my main events won't suck as much as WCW PPVs but that's another story. This is certainly one of the best tag teams of '00s and they'll be the guys who will hold my tag team titles. With the final pick in the sixth round and the first pick in the seventh round of The All Time Wrestling Roster draft, I'm proud to select... Paul London & Brian Kendrick

King Cucaracha PM'd me a list of picks to be posted in case, he can't be at the computer and being temporary co-drafthead, I'm going to post one of 'em. This guy is one of the best big men out there today and surely a fine addition to any roster as a savage monster heel. He's a two time former WWE Intercontinental Champion... With his sixth pick in The All Time Wrestling Roster Draft, King Cucaracha selects.... Umaga

Yeah, really it could have been when he came back to wrestling after his first failed attempt at a film career...though They Live and Hell Comes To Frogtown are pretty awesome.

For some reason, I can't get the sound on this one...and it makes the video approximately 10x hilarious than it already would have been. *****

Yeah, I'll be on the internet most of the weekend, trying to find a distraction while I attempt to write a paper. So I'm good with people PMing me and posting their picks.

I pee on a regular basis in the shower. Kind of gross but what of it? I googled it last night actually...no real harm on the shower or the health if you do it. If I could a huge loogey coming up while I'm in the shower, I'll hock it out. I also rub one out in there on occasion though like mellow, sometimes it raises the blood pressure and I can't handle it. Have not and will never take a shit in the shower. I don't know if I'm a hypocrite for being disgusted by that considering I piss in the shower almost every night whether I need to go or not but seriously Brody, what the hell were you thinking?

I would be mad...but that's a damn good pick there!

Some people are being kind of reckless with picking one half of a tag team and then waiting a few rounds before picking the other guy (I'm assuming they'll eventually pick the other guy)...almost makes me want to teach 'em a lesson but I won't since I don't want to raise my chances in this year's Worst Poster tournament.

Didn't think this would get enough responses to warrant a thread but anybody else here familiar with Larry Norman? Never thought I'd get into any Jesus rockers and the guy was batshit insane but I'll be damned if Only Visiting This Planet isn't a great record. No wonder why this guy has some indie cred.

I was looking forward to the first duplicate pick. Of course, nothing can top the greatness of Drury thinking he had Tazz in like the 25th round...