AndrewTS

I forgot Princess Bride--*slaps head* That's doubly embarrassing because I borrowed No Mercy from a bud and unlocked Andre yesterday. Didn't know Zeus was in the Fifth Element, but he's not really a wrestler, he's just an actor who "wrestled" a few times. Batman and Robin also had the Ultimate Solution himself--Jeep Swenson--as Bane! Although he shouldn't really count either. Don't forget the wrestler who paved the way for wrestlers in movies--Tor Johnson! Never was in a "hit" movie; he was in plenty of shit movies, though. Anyone mentioned Piper? Hell Comes to Frogtown and They Live! Not sure if those are hits but they're cult classics I think--at least the latter.

The crossface is more visually impressive. The Camel Clutch has been used as a generic rest hold so much in the past that having it as a finisher seems extremely lame--it's like the standard sleeper now. Plus, who really wants to use the same finisher that the Sultan used? Similarly, what do think is more effective: Sharpshooter or Boston Crab? Which one would get more of a reaction and be considered by marks as more devastating? Plus, Jericho's "Winnepeg Crab" is probably considered the lamest finishing hold around since just about everyone, from main eventer to midcarder to jobber to stiffs like Nash and Steiner have escaped it. The Crossface in theory also works the arm/shoulder. Yeah, it doesn't even look like it would hurt that area, but that's the way it is treated in matches. You'll see Benoit use shoulderbreakers or post someone's shoulder en route to setting up the hold.

Thunderlips, brother! Big Show was also in Jingle All the Way--uh, was that a hit?

Sable was over back when the women's division was 10 times as pathetic as now. Then again, she still gets cheers now, so go figure. Lita does spots, has boobs, and wears a visible thong, so of course she got pops. Chyna, though? When she split from HHH I remember her getting pushed huge, but fans crapped on her on her own. She'd get booed in matches all the time, especially during the Jericho feud. Chyna knew maybe 3 moves, but the reason she was even partly over was because he looked like she could kick the typical man's ass. Jericho also pulled some Herculean carry-jobs against her.

I swear to God I didn't mean it that way. Brock F-5ed his Next Big Thing. *I* And of course Vince likes Raw more: more McMahons, more skits, less wrestling, more "superstars" who are gimmick-based. SD has less skits, more wrestling, and wrestlers defined by their wrestling. It has more Vince, but Raw has more McMahons. I think the Crossface is a great move--psychology can easily be used to set it up while not resulting in tons of boring rest holds.

Hmm...I knew they were trained more, but I didn't realize how much more. Plus HOW they are trained has much to do with it too. In NA, the women seem to be treated more delicately, and end up wrestling slow and loose. Watch a "Diva" clothesline, whether from Molly or Ivory or Trish and look like crappy it looks. Joshi don't sweat wrestling stiff, it's expected. The reason the women in the US don't get trained as much is obvious--it doesn't seem a worthwhile investment. I'm sure there aren't an extremely large number of young women with the cash to pay for 2-3 extensive years of quality training. I'm sure any women wrestling for independents get peanuts, and they probably expect that they have to be in excellent shape and be pretty to be in WWE. Likewise, WWE doesn't see training their women properly and thoroughly as a worthwhile investment, because they don't care about the division. So they set a little aside to train the women a little bit, but they aren't interested in producing quality wrestlers, just wrestlers who can do the basics (sometimes not even that). Until women's wrestling is considered a bankable concept, it's always going to be treated as a novelty act. Since almost all stateside women's matches feature crowds who don't give a shit or cheering for "puppies"--it isn't going to happen, so it will continue to suck.

Jag0: I agree, I was just using an example. Done once, in a controlled environment and with the proper precautions, that would be alright. I'm not suggesting or advocating flaming tables matches in WWE. It's just that it's not far removed from some of the stuff Kane does now, and would actually be believable. You could buy it a lot easier if Kane had set a table on fire during that interview and put JR through it. Dumping "gasoline" on JR and then setting "him" ablaze is different, though. You could believe that the former would keep JR out for several weeks. In the latter case, JR showing up after being set on fire and apparently suffering no ill effects whatever is idiotic. And call me callous, but kids stupid enough to imitate stuff like that are the kinds who don't deserve the chance to breed.

Oh, I'm certain of it. He'll probably do no offense for quite a while, so Goldberg has to use his limited moves all up, and we might get something similar to Steiner's dozen Belly to Belly suplexes again. The fans will turn on him when he does his 6th spear or so and HHH is just bumping for him, and he isn't getting the job done, then they crap all over the match. If that was guaranteed, it would almost be worth it. Kurt vs. Eddy, Cena vs. Chavo, SPWGTT vs. Kidman/Tajiri, Rey vs. Nunzio (for 8 minutes or so), Benoit vs. Rhyno?

I'm all for WWE using creative ways for some one to get attacked rather than just a generic beatdown all the time. However, if said method would obviously kill a person and leave them in a way that would not allow for an open-casket funeral, then please don't bother. For example: Austin's "Pilmanizing" an ankle = good. Shocking balls with high voltage = bad. Con-chair-to = good. Hitting an ambulance with a semi = bad. Powerbomb through a flaming table = good as long as all involved know what the hell they are doing. Anything involving flames and "gasoline" = bad.

Just to chime in on this thread, everyone but possibly Jazz and Molly are terrible wrestlers, and even Jazz and Molly aren't as good as a mediocre joshi star. Victoria could be good, but training under the WWE umbrella doesn't usually lead to you becoming a good wrestler. If you can't have a division where there are more than two competent performers, I fail to see why you should have that division at all. Since the Women's Division is mainly the showcase for Trish, I also don't care much for it. The Raw roster does suck, but underlooked guys like Dreamer should be getting Raw time way before the women. If you have to employ women wrestlers, keep a couple that are capable and once in a while have a mixed tag--the mixed tag on Heat last time was fun, and even included some neat double-teaming. This kinda went offtopic natch, but as for the original topic--I don't give a crap what Trish is doing, but RRR's mention of the "clenched teeth/look constipated" selling cracked me up. Hell, even Molly does it and it looks stupid.

Tub of Jell-o match where she faces Vicky, gets thrown around a lot, and is pinned in two minutes. That > JR vs. Coach by a million miles.

At least that wasn't on PPV.

I hate Goldberg, but I am split over him as champ. Upside: doesn't ramble constantly, put himself over on the mic at the expense of everyone else. Doesn't know the political game well enough to pull the bull HHH does. Generally has shorter matches. Downside: Limited moveset, tends to squash opponents instead of getting cheap wins, more likely to injure opponents, doesn't work house shows, has no real stake in WWE other than to get his paycheck. Neither one is a viable option to me. If all Cliq members get injured, he'll have the honor of winning it and jobbing it to Orton. At least Kane has to use matches to make fire instead of lighting people on fire with "lightning bolts." By your own admission, there's hope for Brock. I'm digging the new character, but I don't think there were any important faces he could injure that didn't have programs already, so I guess he'll squash Cruisers that have nothing to do right now. We'll see what they do tonight at the tapings... As many as Vince wants until he's decided that Bisch isn't going to make more money or anything and/or he's through embarrassing Bisch.

Don't have the game yet--but gonna say Voldo.

Hogan's also in the HCTP magazine ad, in the background. Doesn't mean he'll be in, since those are made well in advance.

Because Mick was stuck in the midcard when Hogan took over, until he and Austin were let go.

Was this when HHH went full heel, split from DX, and we had the feud going on for the rights of DX? And Chyna's singles push vs. the men...ugh. Yet, Jericho still was able to carry her. *Remembers fondly Jericho smashing her thumb with a hammer*

So? Tajiri does the same thing with his kicks.

Not really, RVD has martial arts knowledge and is actually able to move, so no big surprise.

calling it the RKO is a slap in the face to Orson Welles lol Almost like when Hurricane called Kane "Citizen Kane" and NOBODY got it. Yeah, but he didn't do anyone remotely like Charles Foster Kane. And if he would have, it would have been a bigger slap in the face to Welles if a show like Raw attempted to parody CK in any way.

This is called a "straw man" fallacy. Misrepresenting some one person or group's viewpoints to try to make your's seem more valid. There are plenty of logical arguments to make why Test sucks, made by people of higher intelligence than a typical AOL user. For example, his terrible selling. "Test selling" has been dubbed for the type of selling where a worker grabs a body part in mock pain, but otherwise doesn't seem to feel any damage to that body part, doing moves that use that body part without any ill/decreased effects. Yeah, the performance the other week was well done, but obviously is quite different than selling an injury in the course of a match. That alone wouldn't be so bad, but it's also well known that Test's offense has gone from a wide array of power moves used in spotty fashion, to punch, kick, big boot, *fill in other Nash moves here*. Even when Test did a wide variety of power moves, he still didn't know how to work--he had no clue how to string them together into a good match. He'd do a Northern Lights Driver or so 5 seconds into the match, then be doing chinlocks halfway through. Lame. We see here empty claims made without any sort of backup or justification. How about proving it? Where are all the matches he'd made steps forward in improving himself? And wow, he's starting to get heat again after three years of pushes. Obviously he's great and we're overlooking him. He's had one good match, and that featured Shane bumping like a freak for him. "Effective on the mic?!" HAAAAAAAAAAAAR--dee-har-har! Have fun, Anglesault.

AS: No, but I'm not one of the ones who thinks he will. Get pinned? Maybe. Tap out--I don't think so.

Well, yeah, I admit that much. He's not too bad in the ring either. He mostly stuck with what he could do, and worked up from there. He's been paying his dues--hell, Triple H took the time out of his busy schedule to go on HEAT and squash him, so he must have something to him. Trips just doesn't give that honor to just anyone, you know.

good lord. Maven's so bad he out-Orton's Orton. The sad thing about a HHH face turn is after he beats Kane and Orton he'll have to bury Jericho again. Why does everyone hate Maven so much? He's not bad, he's just completely non-descript and needs character and a direction. Hell, compared to most of the Raw roster he's above average.

Right--at long as that doesn't happen let Raw remain his personal playground.