Zorin Industries

Thats alright, just like to know where i stand.

I thought you would have called me a fuckhead now. P.S Love the sig

They can make good points, although it can get lost with the name calling, which, yes I did do (and I wasn't pleased with myself after I posted it). Guess I shouldn't post in anger

Funny, on the topic we disagree on most, we keep it the most civil Such is life.

I can see we won't agree on the methods, but let me just make clear one more time, that i think the US is in for a lot of trouble in this area for many years and that you had better be prepared to go all the way with this. Good discussion though, thanks.

And I think you drastically underestimate what the ideas of liberty, justice, empowerment, and truth mean to all humanity. And I think there are certain cultures where these ideals take a back seat to faith.

It's amusing that I have more faith in the Moslems than you do. I think that you drasticaly underestimate, what the Islamic faith means to them.

Yes, but Germany was under the control of an Ideology that had lost alot of support as the war ground on. Contrast this to Islam, which is the Worlds fastest growing and probably most devout Relgion

Good, because that's exactly what it is. Only this time we're interested in securing their freedom rather than Jerusalem. Thats the problem, I don't think they will accept the freedom you bring.

Yes, but the NATION of Germany was the one who declared war. What started as a war against terror, is probably starting to look like a war against Islam in the eyes of many, and that will increase the hatred 1000 fold. They will not feel shame but a rightous anger against the West they feel is attacking them.

You don't seem to get it. There is so much hatred in the ME towards you that trying this will open a firestorm that you won't be able to control. There not like dogs who can be trained to jump on command, their people who throughout the entire history of their region have been attacked and threatend by the west. They will just see this as another crusade, and that is dangerous.

Apart from forcing Japan open to trade with threats of violence, Japan changed itself in the 19th Century, while Germany changed from an immense sense of shame, although America certainly helped the process

And how to you expect them to accept all this? Tell them its for there own good and they should do what you say? I can see that working really well. For Gods sake, you'r dealing with an area that is light years away from yours culturally, thinking you can just walk in and reprogram them is insane.

Hey, Ive got a supporter. Zorin for President

Ideology: Yes Culture: No The Allies did NOT destroy Germany or Japan culturly at the end of WW2. They paved the way for the removal of Militirism from the national identitiy, and (apart from the removal of the Japanese Emperor) didn't mess with the actual culture. I think what you want is the destruction of Islam and what it stands for, yes? Doing this would be the BIGGEST mistake you could make. Saying to the population of the Middle East "Dress like us, Act like us, Worship like us" will make sure that the terror you seek to destroy never dies

I have to say this has been A LOT more interesting to read than the 9/11 thread in CE, and a lot better reasoned. I'll probably sound like a cold-hearted bastard (which I am sometimes) but I just don't feel anything for 9/11. It just didn't have any real effect on me except to say "Holy Shit" on the day, but after that I just got on with my life. I do think that the sense of Patriotism after the event seems insincere, but its just like human nature to jumo on the bandwagon after something like this. I prefer cold logic to overemotion but thats just me. P.S: Alina, your'e still looking good in your sig

I don't have a scanner, but I think there are some of me up on the website for my local bar. I'll try and find them. WARNING: I probably look rough as dogs so youv'e been warned

I respect the man in office for who he is, not his title. For instance I would not consider myself equal to men like FDR, Eisenhower or Reagan, because I respect them, I don't respect Bush, therefore why should I put him on a pedastal. I judge by the measure of the man, not by the title he holds.

No, I was just making clear the distinction between the positions. He is an elected offical who can be removed from Government if necessary, not a King or Queen who rules for life( weve got one and I don't support her either). And I would not be impressed because of my personal feelings towards the man, I have meet Archbishop Desmond Tutu and was impressed meeting him because I respected him, plus he was a very charming, intelligent man.

Well, there are the low-yield weapons you are developing. If you used one of those, the political fallout would be around the same

100 posts already? Oh yeah!

I would also like to add that I found Alina attractive. That is all.

Hey, I'll back you up 100% on this since I think your speaking the truth. But Marny will tear you a new ass if she sees that, just warning you.

Hope your ready for the backlash, but I agree with you.

Um, no, hes just an elected offical, not some King who rules by divine right. Therefore I consider him no better or worse than myself.