cawthon777

The Bunkhouse Stampede was HORRIBLE. Imagine trying to eliminate someone by brawling to the top of the cage and then trying to knock them off ... or trying to kick him out the door. The only Wargames stips I can come up with would have it be the double ring or keep the submission stipulation (which seems unlikely since most of the guys in this match don't do submission style). My prediction as to the last three - HBK, Triple H, and RVD. Triple H beats HBK as payback, then has a good 5-6 minute confrontation with RVD in which he eventually gets pinned - clean or otherwise. It's not uncommon to put the big gold (or any gold for that matter) on people who aren't going anywhere. Remember Bret Hart in 92? He was jobbing to Flair in England and the "monster heel" Razor Ramon before finally beating Flair in Saskatoon, which was a huge upset at the time.

I'm assuming the Royal Rumble aspect of the match will involve the guys being picked at random as to order. Two guys start, another one enters every few minutes thereafter. Should be interesting to see if they include the submission aspect of Wargames or if it's just going to be an elimination style match. If that's the case, then I'd expect Triple H to go over HBK just to lose to RVD (or at least that's what I define as logical booking ... no clue as to what the WWE deems as such).

Hogan on Hollywood Squares makes him about as relevant as Carrot Top. Sad, very sad.

I love it, I just imagine I'm watching an old episode of WWF Superstars.

They did main event with Triple H / Kane with every card it was on - as recent as this weekend. Kane / Angle only happened twice. I don't see it as Test getting a push because he hasn't been really featured on TV in a few weeks, aside from a loss to Al Snow (which goes to show what the WWE thinks of Test to begin with). "Moreover, house shows are usually unscathed by politics. The best man will headline the house shows; however, RAW, SD, and PPV's are tainted with politics, which shunt RVD into the abyss, and hold HHH in the highest esteem." For the most part, very true. Back in the late 80s, the Rockers used to face the Conquistadors to close cards that had such main event talent as Hogan, Dibiase, Savage, and Andre on them. This doesn't happen very often though. I remember a house show I went to back in the summer of 93 that had Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna as the scheduled main event. However, the last match of the night was Mr. Perfect against Shawn Michaels, which def blew the other matches out of the water.

10/28/90 – In a foreshadowing of things to come, Virgil chokes out Ted Dibiase in Greensboro, NC after Dibiase blamed his loss to Dusty Rhodes on the bodyguard. 10/28/93 – Bret Hart defeats Jerry Lawler inside a steel cage in the main event of a show in Detroit’s Joe Louis Arena. Other bouts see Lex Luger defeat Ludvig Borga, the Steiners almost regain the tag gold from the Quebecars, and World Champion Yokozuna defeats the Undertaker. 10/28/00 – Steve Austin teams up with the Rock to main event a big show at Toronto’s Skydome as they meet and defeat Rikishi & Chris Benoit. The undercard sees Kurt Angle hold onto his world title against Triple H and European Champion William Regal defeats Light Heavyweight Champion Dean Malenko.

Anything with DDP - Spring Stampede, GAB, and esp. Havoc 97. The Starrcade 95 match with Flair was good but not because of anything Savage did - basically just because Flair bladed huge and the Horsemen helped him win. Or at least that's what I liked about it. Not near as good as their WrestleMania VIII match, IMO. SuperBrawl VI was better. I'm not a huge fan of it basically because the world title was being traded every few weeks so I'm not able to see the match for what it really is ... the blind rage just gets in the way.

10/27/92 – The final edition of Saturday Night’s Main Event is held in Terre Haute, IN during a big night of TV tapings. The show sees Randy Savage & the Ultimate Warrior come close to winning the tag gold from Ted Dibiase & IRS, Shawn Michaels picks up a big win by taking the IC title from the British Bulldog, and Bret Hart successfully defends his world title against Papa Shango. In other bouts – both taped and dark – Nailz defeated the Big Bossman, Razor Ramon defeated Randy Savage via count-out, and Bret Hart beat Virgil to keep the world title. I have a This Month in History section on my site as well. It's only WWWF/WWF/WWE but pretty detailed if you want to take a look.

Ric Flair – Incredibly giving in the ring and it’s good to see he’s willing to elevate the stars of today before completely hanging up the boots. The perfect combination of flamboyancy, psychology, and selling as far as the U.S. goes. I’m sure there are about a million Japanese wrestlers that could out do him on some level (or so I hear), but when you take into consideration the ‘entertainment’ style of American wrestling – there was no one more consistent over the span of 30 years than Flair. Between 1981 and 1993, there were at least a few MOTY candidates per year that involved Flair. The fact that he can continue to have a prominent role in the biggest wrestling company today is a testament not only to what he’s given in the past but to what he’s willing to give now. The perfect heel flag bearer of the 1980s. If a star came from the NWA / WCW, his claim to fame involved Flair for at least one if not many reasons. What would Crockett Promotions or WCW (and the WWF/E indirectly) have been without Flair? And then there were the Horsemen too… Bret Hart – Like Flair on many levels. Elevated everyone he wrestled – from the tag team scene, through the IC, to the world championship. Brought me into wrestling 10 years ago just because he made it look so real. Hart is without a doubt one of the top 5 North American wrestlers of the past decade mostly for one reason – his ability to sell. One match immediately comes to mind – that being his KOTR finals against Bam Bam Bigelow. Watching that live, I knew Bret had what it took to beat Bigelow one-on-one. But with two hard battles under his belt, numerous obvious injuries sustained during those matches, and the massive power and size disadvantage – he didn’t have a chance. I may have only been 11 at the time, but even to this day I regard that match as a major mark out moment. Bret didn’t look like he was going to lose the match; he looked like he was going to die. His ability to bring the fans in to that level, to make them care, to get them emotionally involved in the match is what made him such a vital player in the WWF. Chris Benoit – From the same school of training as Bret and picked for similar reasons. Benoit is aggression and intensity at its finest. I had seen his work in WCW back in 93 but when he returned in 95 I knew I was in for something special. Benoit was what WCW was lacking in for so long – a serious, no-nonscence wrestler that ‘wrestled’. He didn’t cut promos about his 24-inch pythons and didn’t dance in the ring. He went out there and ate up all the pieces of trash that Bischoff tried to shove down our throats night after night – from Alex Wright to Mr. JL (yes, Lynn is a great worker but gimmick-wise, horrible). I have followed his career religiously since the night he stepped out of the limo on Nitro. What he lacks on the mic, he more than makes up for in the ring. Battles with Booker T, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and Eddie Guerrero have allowed Benoit to do something few other wrestlers thought possible – get over by wrestling. Kurt Angle – The best combination of charisma and ability today. Angle can make you laugh your ass off and then minutes later can take you along for one of the most exciting matches you’ve seen in years. What Ric Flair was in the 80s, Angle is quickly becoming today. A heel you love to hate yet can outwrestle just about everyone else on the roster, can elevate everyone, can do wonders on the microphone, and win/lose/draw can send you home happy. What a main eventer is supposed to be. Hulk Hogan – THE icon of professional wrestling. There have been better workers, I don’t think anyone will argue that, however no one man did as much for wrestling as Hogan. He was the flag bearer that wrestling needed in order to reach mainstream popularity. Once it did, he kept it there. As the top man in the WWF, Hogan revolutionized wrestling in the 1980s (some say for better, some say for worse – either way, pro wrestling would not be anything like it is today without Hogan). There may never be another wrestler with the longevity Hogan had when it came to being over with the fans. Cartoons, merchandising, main eventing just about every single pay-per-view event year after year. Don’t forget about the New World Order either. Shawn Michaels – Not the biggest fan of his personally but professionally few could match his ability, technique, or willingness to sacrifice his body for a pop. The Rockers were a breath of fresh air in the WWF and Michaels’ initial singles run – the whole Heartbreak Kid character – quickly became one of the most over and hated in the company. Like Flair before him, Michaels was the guy that went out there, told you he was going to do something, and then he did it – which made you hate him even more. Unlike Flair, Michaels was not as limited when it came to his in-ring work. His ladder matches forever left a mark on the company and the entire wrestling world and his numerous battles with Bret Hart (92-97) were clinics for what American wrestling should and could be (the rivalry / feud of the 90s IMO). Don’t forget about that DX thing either. Steve Austin – It’s hard to imagine that the bald-headed guy that chugs beer and flicks everyone off is the same guy that 10 years ago was teaming with Brian Pillman in WCW. Austin was a solid if not exceptional worker then and his tag team battles against Steamboat / Douglas, Scorpio / Bagwell, and Anderson / Roma were clinics. He and Pillman were hilarious on the mic (‘Flair for the Old’, anyone?). His promos in 96 (KOTR, pre-Survivor Series, every time he said the word ‘ass’) elevated him tremendously and prepared everyone for the long line of emotionally charged and memorable battles against the Hart Foundation, Triple H, the Rock, and just about every other major star in the WWF since. Just when I thought he was finished and washed up, he pulls out a great deal of solid and very enjoyable battles last year against Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, even Spike Dudley. That impressed me a great deal. Arn Anderson – Similar to Benoit but with an ability on the mic second to none. Anderson was the perfect no-nonsence addition to the 4 Horsemen that just went out there, kicked ass, and took names. He made the spinebuster deadly, he made the Horsemen feared, and he made the symbol of excellence not something to be worn lightly. I will never forget the promo he cut in July of 1996 when WCW Monday Nitro was at Disney MGM. The New World Order had just come onto the scene and a week prior Hall and Nash had attacked numerous random WCW stars. After the Horsemen gave Brutus Beefcake a tremendous beating, Arn said something to the effect of ‘You send one of ours to the hospital, we’ll send one of yours to the morgue.’ That line right there sums up Arn Anderson. Randy Savage – Very underrated in the 80s as far as his workrate went, very overrated in the 90s save a few instances. Savage was the perfect answer to Hogan back in 1985 when he came in to the WWF. He wasn’t the size of King Kong Bundy or Andre the Giant but he had more ferocity and intensity than either. Savage could jump around the ring, leap off the top rope, and his overall agility was second to none – especially when it came to the heel roster. His promos were unbelievable – even if you couldn’t understand them (which was sometimes the case). Character-wise, I would liken him to what Triple H was a year or two ago. Bloodthirsty, not afraid to break your leg in order to win a match, and his ability in the ring was only overshadowed by his ability to get over with the fans. Owen Hart – Very underrated but superior ability than 95% of the roster. Could cut some great promos and had the ability to play the whinny heel or the crusading hero (not as the Blazer, just as himself). When he came into the WWF in 1988, his work blew everyone else’s away. No one used a baseball slide in the WWF in 1988. Here was a guy surrounded by 300lb monsters that couldn’t bend down to touch their toes and Owen flew around like he belonged in the air. His later matches with Bret, Davey Boy Smith, and Steve Austin were all memorable if not legendary. Much like Arn Anderson, Owen never got his due but also like Arn he helped a great number of careers take off – thus earning him a little bit of immortality.

What's your pick?

IIIII AM DA MOUNTIE!!!!!!!!!!! *pounds my chest* *shocks Bret Hart with cattle prod*

Wow, watch Triple H shoot his load all over the crowd! Pure ego. And I have a copyright on that picture. You owe me $5.

I have elaborated, if you don't agree then you don't agree. Move on.

Before even reading you guys' suggestions, I had to sit back and think month-by-month as to what's been going on since January. It made me sad. I cannot think of any long-running (and by long-running, more than one month) feud that stands out. RVD / Geurrero was the first that came to mind and it had some good longivity eventhough the majority of the rivalry remained in the ring and neither man got much mic time out of it. Eddie's sunset flip-powerbomb off the top of the ladder in Edmonton was amazing - much as it was against Edge on Smackdown! Benoit / Angle has great potential but I still see Benoit as trapped under the glass ceiling. I'll change my mind about that when he starts getting clean victories against credible opponents.

When I realized that today was the anniversary of that match, I checked to see what was going on this month in WWE history. Another interesting tidbit for October 4th: 10/4/97 – Brian Pillman wrestles his last match in St. Paul, MN when he is defeated by Goldust. That night, Pillman would go to sleep in his hotel room and never wake up. Other bouts on this show included tag champs the Headbangers defeating Los Boricuas, the Legion of Doom defeating the Godwinns, Triple H defeating Jim Neidhart, and the Undertaker defeating World Champion Bret Hart via disqualification. The following day was Badd Blood and Monday's edition of Raw was held at Kemper Arena in Kansas City, where Owen was killed.

I also have to go with Bradshaw / Trish vs. Nowinski / Jackie. It was painful to watch. If there was a truely horrible bout before this, this match put it to shame.

In addition to the Mountie: Rick Rude: "What I'd like to have right now is for all you fat, out of shape, inner city sweathogs to keep the noise down while I take my robe off and show all you ladies what a real sexy man is supposed to look like ... HIT THE MUSIC!" Mr. Perfect: "Nobody beats Mr. Perfect ... and I mean nobody!" Papa Shango: Anyone that can make jobber's feet catch on fire and make the Ultimate Warrior puke goo is #1 in my book. Heels rule!

I have a WWE History site and I'm currently looking to see if anyone has old pictures from house shows, PPVs, or TV tapings. I'm looking for actual photographs, not stills from TV shows. I have several recent contributions from this year and last but very few from the 90s and nothing pre-93. If you have anything that might work, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] Thanks

My arguments have fallen on deaf and biased ears and to debate further would pretty much be useless and wouldn't result in anyone changing their minds. So...just to clear things up: Flair/Vader - very emotional regardless of what you think of Flair's abilities at the time HBK/Razor II - drawn out spotfest and personal showcase for HBK

Santana, like Ricky Steamboat on the other side of the fence, was one of the best babyfaces of all time. There was nothing heelish about him and despite his win-loss record, he was always a big fan favorite. Back in the late 70s-early 80s, Santana had a tag team title run with Ivan Putski before going out as a singles wrestler and once faced and lost to a heel Hulk Hogan. He looks to have been in relative obscurity before he won the IC title from Muraco in 1984, mere weeks after Hogan's title win. What's interesting is that footage of his win was lost or destroyed or something because on the IC title Coliseum Home Video (1987) they only had a clip shown. Santana then explained that he win with a sunset flip-type move after Muraco missed a tackle. As IC champ, he put away everyone from Terry Funk, Greg Valentine, Randy Savage, Jesse Ventura, to Bob Orton Jr. (many of which were main event talent regularly challenging Hogan). The feud with Valentine was probably the biggest of 84-85 (at least for those who weren't as interested in Piper / Hogan). Santana eventually regained the title and ended the over year-long feud in a cage match in Baltimore after kicking the door into Valentine's face while escaping over the top (ala Jericho / Regal from last spring). After the title loss to Savage, Santana was still in the spotlight but slowly began his journey to JTTS status. Strike Force was huge while it lasted but maybe too babyface for the times since so many fans sided with the heel Demolition. After Rick Martel was injured in a match against Demolition that June, Santana returned to the singles scene where he did nothing despite putting on solid matches with almost everyone. The heels of WrestleMania V put the spotlight back on Santana in his feud against Martel, which he lost hands-down aside from winning the 89 KOTR by defeating Martel in the finals. He had several good matches with Mr. Perfect at this time, who was starting his rise to main event star. 1990-91 was the true start to his JTTS career as he lost all his pay-per-view singles bouts. However, during both year's Survivor Series he made a very good showing for himself (pinned the Warlord in under 30 seconds). Once he lost to Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania VIII (which everyone saw coming), there was no going back to credible title contender. During the rest of 92-93, Santana lost to Razor Ramon, Papa Shango, Bam Bam Bigelow, and just about any other fresh monster heel. He returned around 98 as a commentator at the Spanish announce table and helped hype that years' Royal Rumble, since he was the first entry to the initial Rumble in 88.

Rick & Scott Steiner The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart)

I don't see how I've been corrected.

Gotta go with Okerlund, but I liked Mooney too. Everyone talked smack to Mooney - whether it be Flair, Perfect, Dibiase, or even Lord Alfred Hayes.

I just love it when the media jumps all over wrestling and then can't even spell the moves right.

Hey, just my opinion.