TheOriginalOrangeGoblin

Fire: Hardcore Holly, Heidenreich, Jerry Lawler Hire: Jesse Ventura(take over for Lawler), Ron Killings(Raw), AJ Styles(SD)

1.) Favorite world title match at the PPV? Bret Hart vs Diesel, 1995 2.) Favorite SSeries team elimination match? Razor Ramon, 123 Kid, Marty Jannetty & Randy Savage vs IRS, Adam Bomb, Diesel & Rick Martel, 1993 3.) Favorite face / heel (or both) SSeries team assembled? Face: Bret Hart, British Bulldog, Roddy Piper, Virgil Heel: Jeff Jarrett, Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart, Diesel, Jim Neidhart 4.) Favorite non-world title, non-team battle match other than Austin / Hart? Razor Ramon & Ric Flair vs Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect, 1992 5.) Favorite segment? The interviews in 1989(specifically DiBiase & Piper) 6.) Things you hated besides the Montreal Screwjob? - Tully not being in the Warriors/Heenan Family match in 89 - The entire shows in 99 and 2000 - The ending of the Team Piper/Team Flair match in 91

I'm a big Pac fan. My fav Pac song is "Life Goes On" with "I Aint Mad At Cha" and "Dear Mama" right up there.

So let me get this straight, R. Kelly walks out on Jay Z MID-CONCERT and leaves the building leaving Jay to improvise 2 hours worth of concert. And this isn't the first time Kelly has walked out on a show, yet he doesn't see why Jay doesn't wanna work with him anymore?

Medium: - Have a top 5 list for all the titles - Mix up the mid-cards of Raw & SD a bit(minor trades) - No more 6 man tags! Small: - Before big title matches show both guys training in the locker room and do Tale of the Tape on both brands

Lack of Hogan is sickening. Hulk Hogan Randy Savage Bret Hart Bruno Sammartino

Perfect pulling Savage off Flair at 2 at Wrestlemania 8. Savage makes the huge comeback, hits the elbow, but Perfect pulls him off at 2.

Well, after Oscar/Hopkins disappointed, Mayorga/Tito sure as hell did not. What a fight with 8 rounds of pure excitement and Tito landing 66% of his punches in an extraordinary performance. Mayorga showed a lot of balls but he got owned. GIVE ME TITO/HOPKINS NOW!

Hahahaha! Tito knocked Mayorga into retirement. TITO~!

One of my favorite PPV's ever. The Rude's Brood/Roddies Rowdie's and Warriors/Heenan Family matches are personal favorites and this might be the peak of Jesse & Gorilla's commentary. I love this PPV, period.

Decent show. A good Hogan match and the fact that Pretty Wonderful won tag gold(man I marked for them) made it watchable for me.

I missed half of Raw, what'd he say?

Card: Wrestlemania 10 Match: 10 Man Tag at Canadian Stampede or Rock/Hogan at WMX8

Workrate: Team Stampede is the only one without a weaklink so I give it to them. Plus how could you top Bret, Benoit & Dynamite? Team Texas and Team Horsemen are also very good but both have a severe weaklink(Ole,Von Erich) and Team Indy I'm not a big fan of any of them barring Styles. Mic skills: No contest for Team WWF. Hogan, Rock, Foley & Piper are untouchable. Texas & Horsemen, again, are runners up. Draw: Team WWF, easily. Team Texas is probably next cause of Austin(although Funk and Von Erich have drawn relatively well). The Horsemen have Flair but none of the others even resemble a draw and Team Memphis has Lawler and Savage along wiht the R&R's all of whom were decent-great regional draws. Teamwork: The Kliq probably takes this although the Horsemen and Stampede are pretty close. I don't see any of the others having that great chemistry. Look: Team Minny. LOD are scary bastards, Rude has a great body and is a legit tough guy, Brock is ripped and Hennig is...perfect. Overall: I tend to lean towards Stampede since they're untouchable workrate wise and Pillman can carry them promo-wise. To rank them: 1. Team Stampede 2. Team WWF 3. Team Horsemen 4. Team Texas Rattlesnakes 5. Team Minnesota 6. Team Memphis 7. Team Kliq 8. Team Indy 9. Team Michigan

Survivor Series 2002 and Wrestlemania XIX Take an hour off WM20 and it's up there too.

They always could. Hence Randy Savage becoming huge despite being fucked over numerous times.

I think that interetsing. I think one of the main thing to consider is who has the better "Best Oppenet" matches. Now I would probably say that SS 96 was the best of the 5, and WM 13 was the worst (not by a lot, obviously). What do others think. What was better, the 2 Bret/Austin's or the three Steamboat/Flair's. (BTW, These two fueds consits of the last two "Bets NA Match in teh past 20 years" winners) Personally I'll take the two Hart/Austin matches cause I don't like Wrestlewar at all. Plus when thinking how strikingly different both of the matches were both from a work and characters perspective(how both had evolved) it makes Hart/Austin that much sweeter.

Paul, is that the one that's from England and has Shawn doing like 3 figure fours? If so then I fully agree. Savage really showed me something with how good of a seller he can be in that match, and the commentators even pick up that his leg isn't healed from WM8 yet. And it's definetely Shawn's best singles match till Bret.

For Savage I suggest you get your hands on his DiBiase series(specifically their MSG match and their Wrestlefest match), his SNME matches with Hart & Roberts(best Bret match I've seen pre-1992), his matches with Tito(Boston Garden and the rematches although non-clipped versions are damn near impossible to find), his first match with Steamboat(from Maple Leaf Gardens which, IMO, would blow WM3 out of the water had it had an ending) and some of his earlier matches with Hogan(around late 85-mid 86) where Savage wrestlers 'Flair style'(as in basically stooging and bumping around for Hogan) but does without any of Flair's comic touches. That's just a start if you wanna see some late 80's Savage(not counting the obvious WWF PPV stuff, cause I for one consider the Warrior carry at WM7 superior to any carry Flair has ever done).

Bret/Bulldog, Slam 1992. Bulldog wasn't a bad worker but he was so blown up that Bret wrestled himself for the first half of the match. Still, the best example is Savage/Warrior. To my knowledge only two guys knew how to work a good match with Warrrior(not counting Hogan), Savage and Rude. And Savage's matches with UW were much better than Rude's.

If I remember correctly, final 4 were Bret vs Austin and HBK vs Rock(I think) with Hogan being eliminated in the round before that by HBK or Rocky.

"And the fact is... Flair's had more great matches with a greater variety of opponants. Could Bret Hart work a 45 minute draw with a greenhorn like Sting like Flair did? No, probobly not. Hart dogged it A LOT. Sometimes even on PPV. Could Hart have a ***** DRAW with Barry Windham like Flair did? How about his classics with a rapidly decaying Harley Race? The Flair/Race cage match SMOKES Bret/Owen as far as a scientific cage match goes." Ok I ignored it the first few times but now I must ask, what is this ***** draw with Windham? The Worldwide match? You consider that *****? Flair did good with Sting, I'm not denying that. Hell never once did I deny Flair was talented. But then I look and I see Bret carrying Jean Pierre Laffitte to a good match and Bret making YOKOZUNA looks decent on Raw and I think, wow Sting aint THAT hard. And the Flair/Race cage match is underwhelming. Bret/Owen kills it and Race was deteriorating but he was still a damn fine worker in 83. "Hart was never in Flair's league: As a draw, as a worker, as a company asset. I'm laughing as I read this thread because I have the Saskatoon match on my computer and I'm watching Flair work rings around Hart while working in all his character bits AND WHILE HE HAS AN INNER EAR IMBALANCE." Ummm yah. Flair was the veteran and the champ so obviously it was his match to call. What's the big deal there? The match sucked and neither did anywhere near their best so it's a moot point. "Plus, Flair could work with guys he DIDN'T like and not no sell all their offense and ruin a Mania Main Event like Bret "Crybaby" Hart did. Thanks Bret for making that Iron Man match so great. Thanks a ton." I don't know who Flair hated or didn't hate(outside of Bischoff, Bret and Foley, none of whom he wrestled much) so no comment on this. Ironman sucked and Bret didn't help, but it would've sucked anyway cause selling or not it was boring. It sucked cause it was boring, not cause of no-selling. "AND Flair/Morton beats Hart/Kid even though Morton wasn't as good as Sean Waltman was at that point. (Waltman was half a step behind Owen in 94, no bullshit.)" I heartily disagree. Hart/Kid is a great veteran/youngster match with Bret giving and taking a lot of offense from Waltman and then outsmarting in a good ending playing off an earlier spot in the match. I find it infinitely superior. "Flair/Race brought the HATE with BLOOD and inside a REAL steel cage not that pussy blue bars shit." According to most wrestlers the blue bars hurt a LOT more than wire-mesh did.

Von Erich has never had a match in his career that broke ****, let alone ****1/2. Flair/Von Erich is ***1/4 tops. What fantasy world are you in? Flair/Luger at Cade 88(their best) is ***3/4 tops. And what Bret did with a MUCH more limited Kevin Nash at Series 95 is more impressive. Nuh uh, son... CAPITAL COMBAT 90 is easily the best match in the Flair/Luger series and it's **** 3/4 IMO because of the INSANE heat, great workrate (from LUGER????), great sense of history throughout the bout, and just an overall tremendous performance form both men. Give it a damned finish and it's a perfect match. Oh and Flair/Von Erich from the David Von Erich Memorial Show is over ****. Great match, great moment. Son? Grow up kid. I prefer Starcade but ok, I'll Capital Combat their best, I'll still take Hart/Nash over it. The heat was good and it was solid(impressive for Luger although he was better than you give him credit for) but it wasn othing above ****. Flair/Von Erich was a GREAT moment, but not that much of a match. IT wasn't bad for Kerry but no higher than ***1/4. Have you seen Flair/Gigante? No you haven't, cause it's a myth and it supposedly happened at a house show. Supposedly is the key word. And comparing Hart/Nash to Flair/Vader doesn't work considering Vader was a great worker(no worse than Flair in 1993) and Nash, to put it nicely, wasn't. Flair was very good at carrying opponents, I'm not taking anything away from him. But that's cause he had a perfect formula for it(not saying it's a bad thing). While if you look at Bret's matches with Nash(KOTR,RR,SS) they're all different, with the Survivor Series match being a masterful performance from Bret. His performance in that match overshadows Flair's carries of Luger by a lot. I can't argue opinions... even if you did forget Capital Combat ( ) The Nash/Flair matches aren't all that different. They're all basically about Bret using his brain to survive against the big guy. Again, not to say that they are bad because of it... but he's no less formulaic than Flair and to say differently is just silly. Actually no. Yes Bret was repetitive at times, I fully admit that. But the Rumble match and the Survivor match couldn't be more different so saying they're more different than Flair's matches with Luger is not silly. And yes Flair did define the NWA in the 80's, I'm not taking anything away from his impact or his fanbase. But that doesn't make him a better wrestler than Bret Hart.

Von Erich has never had a match in his career that broke ****, let alone ****1/2. Flair/Von Erich is ***1/4 tops. What fantasy world are you in? Flair/Luger at Cade 88(their best) is ***3/4 tops. And what Bret did with a MUCH more limited Kevin Nash at Series 95 is more impressive. Nuh uh, son... CAPITAL COMBAT 90 is easily the best match in the Flair/Luger series and it's **** 3/4 IMO because of the INSANE heat, great workrate (from LUGER????), great sense of history throughout the bout, and just an overall tremendous performance form both men. Give it a damned finish and it's a perfect match. Oh and Flair/Von Erich from the David Von Erich Memorial Show is over ****. Great match, great moment. Son? Grow up kid. I prefer Starcade but ok, I'll Capital Combat their best, I'll still take Hart/Nash over it. The heat was good and it was solid(impressive for Luger although he was better than you give him credit for) but it wasn othing above ****. Flair/Von Erich was a GREAT moment, but not that much of a match. IT wasn't bad for Kerry but no higher than ***1/4. Have you seen Flair/Gigante? No you haven't, cause it's a myth and it supposedly happened at a house show. Supposedly is the key word. And comparing Hart/Nash to Flair/Vader doesn't work considering Vader was a great worker(no worse than Flair in 1993) and Nash, to put it nicely, wasn't. Flair was very good at carrying opponents, I'm not taking anything away from him. But that's cause he had a perfect formula for it(not saying it's a bad thing). While if you look at Bret's matches with Nash(KOTR,RR,SS) they're all different, with the Survivor Series match being a masterful performance from Bret. His performance in that match overshadows Flair's carries of Luger by a lot.

Von Erich has never had a match in his career that broke ****, let alone ****1/2. Flair/Von Erich is ***1/4 tops. What fantasy world are you in? Flair/Luger at Cade 88(their best) is ***3/4 tops. And what Bret did with a MUCH more limited Kevin Nash at Series 95 is more impressive.