AmericanDragon

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen. Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal. Yeah, it probably means that they stole from a Bond movie or something, since Bond always stops the victim. Bond predates Watchmen, btw. Alan Moore must've stolen the "villain blows stuff up and takes over the world" from Ian Fleming. Those justifications are just terrible and since it's not the first time you've posted stuff like that, I'm going to just accept that I can't change your opinion so you can continue responding to my posts with such weak arguments but I won't try to reply to you anymore.

No, they aren't. Especially Watchmen. What is this second generation that you keep trying to come up with? No, they are not. They aren't investigating any plot in Heroes. At all. Main plot points are Sylar and Peter trying not to explode. How is taht investigating a plot? Which is easily one of the most used plot devices in literature and cinema. One of which is trying to stop the nuclear race and the cold war so he wants to unleash an alien that will kill alot of people and make some crazy in New York which will make both sides think aliens are invading and join forces to focus on that. In Heroes, the villian is not going to stop a hero not being able to control his powers blowing up that is already destined (by accident by the way) to happen so that he can have a president in his pocket. Thats practically the same story, huh? You are drawing lines that don't exist and since they don't exist you are slightly adjusting each story so that they do fit your "BLATANTLY STEALING" rants. Ok, so the Minutemen and the Crimebusters aren't two distinct generations of superheroes? The heroes in Heroes are investigating a plot (the bomb going off) and trying to figure out how to stop it. "Investigating" doesn't mean there's a god damn detective character going around asking questions. They "investigated" it by trying to seek answers from the paintings. You just said in a previous post that Linderman is trying to stop the people who are trying to stop the bomb. If it's all "predestined" then why would he even attempt to stop them? Even though in my opinion he talks about the bomb as if he's involved in setting up the whole thing, you can say that he had nothing to do with it but he's still actively fighting those who oppose it. He isn't simply sitting there waiting for it to happen so in effect he is involved in the bomb going off. You can only claim that he isn't actively involved if he was the only person who knew about it and just let it happen.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen. Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal.

Your question doesn't make any sense. You asked if the restaurant took out the all you can eat buffet (bomb storyline) and kept the same color scheme (misc similarities between the two), would it still be considered a blatant ripoff? Well obviously it wouldn't and I never said the theft relied on the color scheme (misc similarities). I'm basing it on the same all you can eat buffet (bomb storyline) in addition to the same color scheme (misc similarities). My argument rests on the bomb storyline first and the other similarities as support. You're asking me to take out the bomb storyline. Since you made up some crappy story to try to "illustrate" the argument, I'll do the same. Me: Heroes stole the bomb storyline from Watchmen and there are even more similarities after that. You: Ok, but take away the bomb storyline. Is it still stealing now? You can easily do that to any argument if you wanted but it isn't a valid way to defend your point.

Or so we're meant to believe. It's like how Stormwatch #25 was published after #8 (or something), they went back to issue 9 and built towards #25. Or how DC jumped a year and has been filling the blanks with 52. OMG HEROES RIPPED OFF JIM LEE!! Ahem. The point is that we've seen only a glimpse of the future, but we don't know how we get there. Unless Dragon is correct, and Nathan and/or Linderman blames the whole thing on aliens. Please. AoA obviously ripped off the Mirror Universe. Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

Heroes and Watchmen being the same genre isn't proof that it's a blatant ripoff. It only adds support to it. I'm sure no one accused 24 of stealing because the "killing many for a greater good" was the only similarity. Now you have Heroes doing the same storyline. Both Heroes and Watchmen are about two generations of superheroes. Both of them are in the superhero/comics genre. Both of them are about investigating a plot that will lead to the destruction of New York. Both of them feature a supervillain who will use a catastrophic event for the greater good with the opinion that they will be remembered as heroes. Now how are all of those things combined on par with what 24 did? Again, I don't watch 24 but you can't seriously say that the similarities between Heroes and Watchmen are as small as the similarities between 24 and Watchmen, and therefore should be excused.

And again you're trying to boil down the argument to something that isn't representative of it. Those two restaurants having all you can eat buffet are the same as Watchmen and Heroes both being about superheroes. It's trivial and no one would even attempt to say that either one is stealing from the other just based on those similarities.

Because so far it has only been one scene in Heroes, where a guy with powers says that the explosion will kill "half" of New York. End of similarity. Ozymandias had no superpowers. He was a retired masked crimefighter with above average intelligence and athleticism. He faked an alien attack that blew up New York in order to convince the world that we needed masked heroes or superheroes. Linderman is a corrupt mobster that uses his nefarious influences to gain more power and such. The world does not know that once had superpowers (and still currently does, but the fact that he has powers differs him from Ozymandias). He "knows" about a person blowing himself up like a nuclear bomb. He wants it to happen because he thinks it will allow Peter to get to the White House and be Linderman's puppet. So far, from the previews, it shows that if this happens, the world will outlaw superheroes. What are the common areas? One man states that "half" of New York getting blown up will allow him a personal gain, and in both mediums, the subject was "comic-book-style heroes." If he had said California instead of New York, would it have instead ripped off Lex Luthor's plan in Superman? Great, now they're supposedly different because one has powers and one doesn't. Even if Linderman was a woman the story would still be the same. Again, everything Linderman has said to Nathan seems to imply that he has been involved in the event. Why would he even try to justify it to Nathan if it's simply just going to happen no matter what?

Thus Linderman all of a sudden being behind the blowing up of Peter is going against EVERYTHING that the show has shown us. his speech was "I know this is going to happen. I have known it for a long time. But I am going to allow it to happen because I like what is going to happen as a result of it." He is a fucking mobster. Then explain why Linderman expects to take credit for it if all he's supposedly doing is sitting on his ass and looking at paintings (the future). Also, Linderman says that he wouldn't leave Nathan's presidency to chance. If all this is predestined to happen, why wouldn't he just show Nathan the painting of him in the oval office to show him that that's going to happen? His dialogue before showing the painting implies that he has some part in it.

The writers have claimed that each season will have its own distinct storyline that also gets completely resolved in their respective finales so I'm expecting something completely different from Season 1's story.

Again, Sylar being a watchmaker was a nice "subtle" homage to Watchmen. How is taking the actual climax from Watchmen being "subtle?"

Hey I'm sure my posts are annoying to a lot of Heroes fans in this thread but since they don't care, they don't fucking respond and just ignore me. Now obviously Ripper feels that the similarities are too general to be considered theft and I'm currently arguing with him about that. But what exactly is the point of your posts besides taking the time and effort to post that you don't care?

You obviously posted that remark since you thought it was what my argument boiled down to. I'm not talking about trivial shit like two people having the same powers. Ripper, Linderman even used the same "half of New York" comment when talking about the explosion. Why not just say "most" or "all" of New York? Why half of all amounts when talking about a huge explosion? Because Linderman's dialogue is almost word for word what Ozymandius says. I don't watch 24 but I'm not debating that this particular "killing lots of people for the greater good" storyline hasn't been used before. Hell that was the real life justification for dropping the atomic bomb on Nagasaki and even that's referenced in Watchmen. It's just that Heroes and Watchmen are both so similar in genre and story that when Heroes decides to use this particular storyline, it just comes across as a straight up theft. edit: Great, more moronic posts came up while I was typing that. I'll sink down to your level then. "OMG HEROES IS ABOUT PEOPLE, IT'S RIPPING OFF WATCHMEN!"

Great job adding to the discussion moron.

Those examples are as dumb as someone claiming Heroes ripped off Watchmen because they're both about superheroes. Again, what most people don't seem to understand about this is that it isn't about abilities or other generic stuff like that. Your examples just deal with archetypes or generic superpowers. No one cares that Claire's regeneration has already been done in comics before because it's such a trivial subject. Heroes took a very specific storyline from Watchmen that isn't just some generic stuff like The Incredibles using the "superheroes are banned" concept.

That's not even a vague similarity. It's the same. Supeheroes being "outlawed" in both Watchmen and The Incredibles doesn't even begin to come close to the level of similarities between Heroes and Watchmen.

Ok but that's where we differ. I had that same reaction when it was revealed that Sylar was a watchmaker in the origins episode. That showed me that they're acknowledging Watchmen and "respecting" it and that was a fun little moment. But then I heard Linderman's plan and I don't think taking an entire storyline from Watchmen is paying it "respect."

Ok, since you're read it and are also a Heroes fan, don't you think there's something pretty damn similar about Linderman and Ozymandius and their respective intentions/motivations for doing what they're doing? Again, people keep telling me to calm down but I've already stated I'm still going to watch and enjoy the show. It's just that people here have the audacity to try to argue with me over whether or not theft occurred while admitting that they haven't even read the book. That's just fucked up. If people who are actually informed about both sides want to disagree with me about whether or not Heroes stole then feel free to. But to the people who only know Heroes and haven't read a page of Watchmen: Why are you trying to argue about things that you have no knowledge about?

You're just doing the same thing as Hawk 34 by trying to say that Heroes didn't steal from Watchmen yet you haven't even read Watchmen so what real credibility do you have? I never said Watchmen was the first comic book intended for an older audience. You're the one who assumed that's what Heroes "stole." If you start talking about how Watchmen wasn't the first comic book to be "mature" or have an "overarching mastermind" or a "team of heroes" then it's clear that you haven't read it. Trust me, if you've actually read Watchmen then what Heroes is stole is extremely obvious.

Ok, let me get this straight. I'm arguing that Heroes stole a specific plot point from Watchmen. You're claiming that Heroes was only inspired by Watchmen and didn't steal a specific plot point. The only problem is that you just admitted you haven't even fucking read Watchmen. ... Only on an internet forum.

That bothers me too but it's no big deal since Watchmen is two decades old and it's easy to tell people that it came first. What bothers me the most is that out of all of the things Heroes could have stolen from, they decide to steal from Watchmen, the fucking holy grail of graphic novels and something they owe almost everything to.

How the hell is it going to help the Watchmen movie if they're using the exact "twist?" It's not about vague references/characters/storylines/etc. They're using the same plot point and motivations. But there will always be people like you who come up with the excuse that nothing's original in today's world, and that's exactly what I meant about the Carlos Mencia remark. First people defended him by saying he doesn't steal. When it was proven he does steal, the excuse of "so what, everyone steals" inevitably came up. Let me just ask you this. Have you read Watchmen and if not, why the hell are you even trying to say what Heroes is doing is "inspiration" when you don't even know what exactly is being used from Watchmen?

That's not even a vague similarity. It's the same. Supeheroes being "outlawed" in both Watchmen and The Incredibles doesn't even begin to come close to the level of similarities between Heroes and Watchmen.

Let me guess, neither of you have read Watchmen yet you're still posting like you have any idea what you're talking about. Countless things have been inspired by Watchmen like The Incredibles, Lost, etc but they didn't feel the need to downright steal from it like Heroes did. Hawk 34 probably condones Carlos Menstealia with that kind of shitty logic.

Even Carlos Menstealia would have had the decency to change the location of the bomb. edit: I'm still watching the show because I enjoy it. But Heroes being a comic book/superhero influenced show and directly stealing from Watchmen is some pretty cold hearted shit especially now that the Watchmen movie has a good chance of being made combined with just how much it has done for comics in general.