iggymcfly

Well right now, I'm talking about who the WWE's pushing as a main eventer, not who's getting pops from the crowd. Since Nash was one of the three faces in the main event at SS, that would technically make him the #3 face.

I do think it's kind of funny. I've been replying in four different threads, and I'm basically arguing the same point in every one of them.

I don't want him to take Jericho's spot as the #3 heel. I want him to take Nash's spot as the #3 face. If you notice, Nash was the regular main eventer who got bumped last night for Shane. Oh, and the purpose of the Kane/Shane feud isn't to solidify Kane's spot as the #1 contender. It's to give Kane something to do while the Goldberg/HHH feud is going on. It would kill a lot of his heat off if he got left off of Unforgiven or even tried to drag out his crappy feud with RVD for another month.

OK, do you want to know the last time I found HHH entertaining. Last night on Raw. That was a great promo he cut that made people want to see Goldberg beat him for the title even more, and also added a sense of importance to the title. And the crowd was definitely into the segment. When Rock was doing a verbal battle with Goldberg, all he did was make Goldberg look lke shit. Through his persona and overness as a heel, HHH makes the faces look better. I think HHH has been an excellent champion, and I always sit up whenever he's on my screen. Just because he's got stuck with a couple people that the fans wouldn't pop for doesn't make him a bad champion. His feuds with RVD, HBK, Booker T, and Goldberg have all been top of the line. In fact, I think the Goldberg feud has the potential to be the hottest feud of the year. It's been much better than Angle/Brock so far. And here's something I liked: Hello. Ratings are higher than they were when his reign started. Two years ago, we were in the early stages of the invasion angle when it was still drawing money, but ratings are certainly higher than they were right before HHH's reign when the belt was constantly switching hands. Oh, and I almost guarantee you that HHH will job cleanly at Unforgiven. He's the one with the evil stable watching his back. And it will have 100 times more impact than if he'd just lost to Booker T at Wrestlemania.

Hey, I can't decide this on someone's little group of friends. All I know is that every time he comes on TV, he gets a massive pop, and the crowd's up and alive throughout his matches. When Steiner got overpushed, he got booed. When Nash got overpushed, he got booed. When Goldberg got overpushed, he got booed. Shane's beaten the Big Show on PPV, beaten Kurt Angle in a sub-main event at KOR, faced Jericho, and feuded with Kane, and he got nothing but massive pops. If the majority of fans or even a large minority thought he was getting overpushed, you'd be hearing at least a few boos on Raw. Judging by the live crowds, I'd say at least 90% of the fans like Shane and like seeing him face big name wrestlers. 90% of the 4.9 million people who watched Shane's main event against Jericho would be almost 4.5 million people. Is that enough facts for you?

I'll give you that. I thought that the whole idea of Kane being burned alive was pushing it. The only way that would have ever worked is if they wanted to kill off the Kane character (say back when he had the mask and costume,) and reintroduce him as a completely new character. I was just saying that the storyline works from Shane's standpoint and he's not steamrolling the roster or taking an undeserving spot. I did like the burn in hell line though. Shane's character is badass. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a regular main eventer on Raw.

He is NOT A WRESTLER. I don't know how much more I can dumb it down for you than that. When I flip on Raw I want to see the wrestlers fighting, not the boss's kid fighting. If people in the arenas pop for him out of habit or politeness, that's there problem. It doesn't change the fact he bores the shit out of me. That's the problem. He bores the shit out of YOU. YOU would rather see the wrestlers fighting than him. However, the WWE doesn't program exclusively for YOU. There are four million other fans that do want to see him, and so the WWE accomodates them.

Shane took a piledriver on the steps and sold it for two weeks, but RVD's not supposed to sell it for a day? And sure it makes sense that Shane took him out. It's not like he just beat him into submission, he knocked him backwards a foot when he happened to be in front of a flaming dumpster. Shane does a better job as a noble babyface than just about anyone on the roster. What I really hate is the people that say it's not believable for Shane to get the upper hand on anyone, but it's A-OK for a one-legged man to look competitive with people or even win on Smackdown.

Tommy Dreamer is at least an arguable point, but he can't get over without killing himself because he doesn't have the mic skills. Shane can kill himself AND act AND cut good promos making him better-suited for a high-profile feud. As for Steven Richards, his strength is his moderately funny mic skills which again don't compare to Shane's. Without a bunch of weapons, he's nothing more than a lower mid-card player. He doesn't have anywhere near as good brawling or acting skills as Shane.\ Steiner? Give me a break. All he has that Shane doesn't is a bunch of jacked up steroid infested biceps. As far as skill goes, Shane is better than Steiner in every conceivable way. Without the Stacy storyline, Steiner would probably getting booed right now. And Test? He might be cute in a thirty second backstage skit, but in a main event storyline, he's not even close.

Name one wrestler on the Raw roster who didn't appear last night who wasn't selling an injury that's more over/entertaining than Shane.

Here's the thing. Shane is not un-interesting. No one in the arenas thinks so and I certainly don't. At least Golderg gets booed occasionally, but Shane gets universally met with massive pops whenever he comes out. People like to watch him on their TV. It doesn't matter if Steiner and Test are wrestlers if no one wants to see them wrestling on their TVs. The majority of wrestling fans out there think that Steiner, Test, and Nash are much more boring than Shane.

Nobody gets it. Shane is the good McMahon because he's the most entertaining. Why would we want him off our TVs? Whenever he's on, he's fun and exciting as hell. Shane's the fucking man.

This is totally worthless shit doing nothing but ENTERTAINING THE FANS. This is how you build your fanbase, and end up earning way more money in the long run. Back in 1992, they couldn't even dream of drawing a 4.2 rating for Raw.

If RVD had the acting skills, mic skills, and intensity that Shane does, he would be a multiple time World Champion by now. That's not to say that he can't do things that Shane can, because he can. They both have their strengths. That's why their both getting programs with Kane. The reason people pop for Shane is because he's exciting, and shows intensity both in the ring and in promos and skits. I mean, he's been on three or four shows in the last year and a half, and he gets the third biggest pop on Raw. What does that tell you?

Raw got a 4.2 rating this week, and has averaged about a 4.0 over the last month or two. And what I'm saying is that if someone like Test or Steiner isn't interesting, giving them wins in a bunch of matches every show to "put them over" isn't a good idea. They should just put out the guys like Austin and Goldberg that people want to see. Oh, and Goldberg's the top face on Raw. Austin's #2. How you put JR in there is beyond me.

I was guessing 4.3. The reason it went up was because there were actually entertaining segments throughout the night. The opening promo hooked them. Nothing it the first hour was bad enough to tune people out, and then the Highlight Reel segment got them to stay for good. It was a really good show last night.

That's true. People focus on his high spots but even without him, he's probably one of the top three brawlers on Raw. He puts more intensity into his punches than anyone outside of Austin or maybe Taker.

Thank god we actually have credible titles again. I hope we never again see the days of Jericho->HHH->Hogan->Taker->Rock->Brock in five months again.

When did Shane beat Kane. I certainly don't remember that. All I saw was him save himself by kicking Kane into a flaming dumpster. Besides if you want to get technical with who could beat Andre the Giant on that basis: Brooklyn Brawler beat HHH. HHH beat Hogan. Hogan beat Andre.

The casual fans do like the current product. The ratings on Raw are much higher than they were 6 months ago. Raw's gone from an average rating in the low 3.0s to an average of about a 4.0. Stuff like the opening promo last night, the segment with Austin and Coach, and even the Shane/Jericho match are way more fun to the average casual fan than a ten minute match between Benoit and Shelton Benjamin

I guess I was the only one on here, but I thought Raw was really great. Every segment throughout the night was exciting and interesting. They even used logic on stuff lke the Coach heel turn where a year or two ago, they wouldn't have even bothered. Maybe if you were watching the show to enjoy the segments instead of counting the number of wrestlers on it, you would have had a better time. The reason RVD wasn't on the show is that he was selling the tombstone on the steel steps that happened a day ago. It would have been ridiculous to have him on the show a day after that. And say all you want about Shane, but I'd rather see him wrestle than Booker T anyday. The main event was fine for what it was. Oh, and one more thing. Why isn't Jerry Lawler allowed to wrestle. He was a 41-time Mid South champion, and I'm pretty damn sure he's younger than Ric Flair. He's a legend in his own right, and if he wants to step into the ring a few times a year, he should be allowed to. I think the problem is that people don't understand what the purpose of a wrestling show is. It's not to "get over" all the wrestlers on the roster. It's to entertain the fans. If they're more entertained by seeing Austin give an interview than they are by watching Test and Christian tag against Steiner and Nash again, then that's what the WWE should give them. And then people say, when did the WWE give that focus to non-wrestlers before 1998. Well the answer is that they didn't. But how often did the WWE get 4.0 ratings for Raw before 1998? They didn't. The business evolved in a positive manner there, not a negative one. The only problem I had with the show was Kane being burned alive. I mean, if that were real, how would he possibly survive? He should be dead. And if he's dead, then his whole push is for nothing. I'd really like to see them get out of this one with it still making sense. Except for that one little blip though, (which I could give them the benefit of the doubt on since I don't know where they're going with this angle,) the show was very good and reminded me more of the old Raws from '99 than the crap from a year ago.

Oh, they already knew they didn't want Booker T to be the champion because he's so incredibly boring.

Do you really think that Goldberg lost his heat by the cheap pin HHH got on him at Summerslam? I almost guarantee you we'll get louder Goldberg chants on Raw this week than we have in quite a while.

Here's the deal. The WWE doesn't know who the fans will like as champion, so they have to test them first. Steiner gets a loss by DQ after looking incredibly strong and gets booed unmercifully; he loses the feud. Nash gets a loss by DQ after looking incredibly strong and gets booed unmercifully; he loses the feud. Goldberg gets a loss by complete screwjob after lokking incredibly strong and gets raucous cheers throughout the night, I'm guessing he'll walk out of Unforgiven with the title.

Well, I didn't see the PPV, (and I'm pissed of as hell about it,) but the one thing that kind of struck me during this thread is how much legit heel heat HHH has. He doesn't have X-Pac "get off my TV" heat, he doesn't have A-Train "shave your back" heat, he doesn't even have Jericho "he just made fun of my town" heat. He has "I'd pay good money to see that son of a bitch lose" heat. How rare is it for someone to have the same heat from the casual and internet fans just by his storyline without actually becomnig boring or annoying?