4hartthreat

Okay, so now not only is Trips losing at WM, but he is also staying out of the title picture for a year? LOL, good luck with that. I do agree with one thing though, and that's the ending being a "happy" one. I see them running Cena out there to give H and Flair a pair of FU's and end with him celebrating rather than HHH. They could easily set this up by having H run into Cena earlier in the show and berate him about how the World title is more important and that's why IT is on last and so on.

I must say, I've always wanted to see The Warrior vs. The Renegade in a taped fists match at WCW Uncensored 97.

Wow, I don't see how no one here listed HHH winning as a WILL happen. What in the booking of this feud makes you all think that Trips is going down in this one? Batista has gotten the better of HHH for months, first with mind games, then he powerbombed him through a table, then he destroyed everyone H threw at him to "soften" him up for Mania. HHH hasn't gotten over on Batista even once during this feud. Do you all REALLY think that HHH would let Batista make him his bitch for months and then still job in the match? Let's also not forget that this match wasn't even supposed to happen, this was not put together until probably about January. HHH should have no problem getting out of this job, if he was even ever planned to lose. This match has the classic "cowardly heel champion looks like he can't defeat the unstoppable face monster but in the end cheats and does anyway" build to it. I will wait until after Raw to make my final predictions though. If Raw ends with H and Flair beating down on Dave, then I'll likely give him the win. But if it ends, as I expect it to, with Evolution trying something, but Batista battles back, and H and Flair walk backwards toward the entrance while Batista points and screams at them, then Big Dave and all you Pimp-a-maniacs are SCREWED.

Ah, I love when this topic comes up, and it always does right about now, Mania time. The Ironman match is a classic. My favorite match. The rest hold thing is what gets me the most, well that and the no falls thing. They were going an hour! Going into the match they knew they were going an hour. So of course they were going to use rest holds to not only conserve their own energy, but also to wear down the other guy. And the no falls thing was one of the BEST things about the match. It was the main event of WM, the biggest show of the year. The title meant everything to Bret, it was his life. It was Shawn's dream to win it and to do so he had to go through Bret. So that belt meant so much to both guys, and they both didn't want to lose the first fall because it meant they'd be playing catch up from there. So both guys fought their asses off to not lose that first and as even the announcers constantly pointed out crucial fall. Also, unlike just about any other match in WWF/E history, they went out of their way to show how hard Bret and Shawn were training for this match. With all of this in mind, it should be more than believeable that they could go that long without a fall. The one thing I do agree with most on is the overtime. I don't think it made any sense and still don't like that it happened. But that being said it didn't take away from the match, in fact it kind of added to it. Going back to the how much the title meant to both guys thing, it took two superkicks to keep Bret down, because he did not want to lose his title on the biggest show of the year. How so many people can shit on this match then turn around and praise that crapfest that was the Rock-HHH ironman match is beyond me....

With the 29th pick the Colts select: Justin Miller, CB, Clemson

To be fair to Christian, I think he often took the more dangerous, although maybe not most impressive looking, bump in the ladder matches when he would have the ladder he was at the top of be tipped over and would fall straight to the floor, not having the top rope help break his fall at all.

To add another match, I really enjoyed the Orton-Christian match from several weeks ago on Raw. I was amazed at how well I thought they worked together. Lots of good near falls and they worked in the concussion thing into the match very well. But the one thing that I think everyone can really agree on is razazteca's point that Orton is not better than Kanyon. But then again, who is?

I am not an anti-smark, which is why I can't believe how people here are getting on this Batista bandwagon when he is everything smarks don't want in their superstars. If anyone here is a true smark (don't bother pointing out how ridiculous this is, believe me I know, but you brought it up) it is me and the rest of the anti-Batistas here. As for me only liking Orton because this board hates him, I never said anything like that. I said I hope he beats Taker because of this board but that is it. I have liked Orton ever since he did the Randy updates while he was injured and you can ask anyone who knows me about that. (I'm looking at you chaosrage, I'm sure you'll love confirming how "retarded" I am for liking Orton since then..) And my point which you ignored is, Orton was very much over in his cocky-heel role when he won the title, so much so that he got cheered over Benoit in Canada. So why wouldn't putting him back as that character and giving him a win over Taker at WM elevate him to a superstar again?

Why don't you kindly shut the fuck up? You're adding nothing to this discussion, and frankly the other Orton fans have much better points to add to this discussion than your repetitive anti-smark horseshit and strawman arguments. Batista stills sucks in the ring, but he's gotten over a lot more with less. Nobody said Orton was heatless either. We're saying he's getting mid-card reactions and is getting less heat than he should have gotten. If Batista wins, he'll still have heat but he'd need another decent program or two if he were to become an established big name. You know, just like any new champion? It's why Benoit's reign sucked. It's why Orton's reign sucked. Once the chase is over you have to switch gears. It's going to take more work to make a new face champ worth cheering for against his challengers than it would for an established face champ. Okay first off, nice of you to just quote the first part of my post that took up about 1/8 of what I said. But the fact is what I said is completely true anyway. NO ONE here(okay, maybe like 2 people) liked Batista and the nhe shows up at Mania 20 wearing a nice suit and sunglasses and for days 500 posts were popping up with "OMG PIMPTISTA!" in it. He got over with the smart crowd by wearing a suit. Now your dumbass can try and deny that fact, but everyone here knows that it's true. Furthermore, by not quoting the rest of my post you left out the part where I was the first person in this thread to put more than "Orton needs to win" as reason as to why a win would help him and since my post the rest of the Orton should win supporters have been using wha I said as their points as well. Now this isn't because I discovered some great secret or anything, these were all very obvious points, I was just the first to point them out in this thread. I see you took a piece of it as well with your "this is wh yOrton's reign sucked" line. Guess you aren't adding anything significant to this thread either.... Anyway, not that I'm done with the guy who is obviously mad because I pointed out that he picks his favorite wrestlers based on their attire, I want to move on to something a little earlier in the thread, the short argument over who is winning at Mania. As of right now, I would definately put my money on HHH. Batista has gotten the best of H since the feud started which tells me that they are running the cowardly heel looks like he can't beat the monster but somehow does anyway storyline. HHH has not one-uped Batista ONE time in this storyline. So unless something happens on next weeks Raw, I say Trips is definately walking out of Mania with the title.

Wow, a note to all aspiring hosses out there, wear a nice suit and some cool sunglasses and you'll somehow win over the internet crowd to the point where they think you should win the title in the main event of a WM or end Taker's streak or hell why not just do both and kill two birds with one stone.... I'm glad at least some others here realize that once Mania ends so will Batista's "overness." Just let H do what he does and move on to someone who might be able to do something with a win over him. And for those that keep saying Orton was given the "god" push and never got over, that is complete bullshit. When he was in Evolution with the IC title he DID get over. He was so over that when he faced Benoit for the title in Canada the fans were pulling for Orton instead of their fellow Canadian. The WWE bothced his push by not only turning him face the very next night, but then they jobbed him out to HHH at the very next ppv and then for months just kept making him H's bitch. The return to his heel ways and a win over Taker at Mania could get him right back to where he should be and help push him beyond that.

Batista is only over because of his storyline with HHH. The second Mania is over, win or lose, it will all be over and the WWE will be stuck with, if he wins, an unover champion who can't even compensate by having matches anything even close to good.

Wow, I can't believe the Orton hate is still so strong here, that it is turning people from Taker haters to Taker marks. You don't like him, that's fine, but for the hatred to be so strong that it blinds you to the obvious fact that Taker NEEDS to finally do the j-o-b at Mania to Orton is beyond ridiculous. This thread shoots Orton beating Taker to #2 on my list of WM wants right behind HHH retaining the title over the TRUE never-will-be, Batista.

I would LOVE for Sherri to make a comeback. I think she's the best female manager of all-time. And if they do the Shawn-Marty feud that I think everyone expects that they will, Sherri would be absolutely perfect for getting Marty over as a heel.

In the 80's/early 90's I was a HUGE Hogan mark. I was even happy for his WM9 title win though I did feel bad for Bret. I really have no bad feelings about Hogan in the WWF/E, with the exception of refusing to put Bret over, at all including his title run in 02. All ill will I have for Hogan has to do with WCW. I started to turn on Hogan in early 95 when not only did he not drop the title to Vader at Super Brawl, but then beat him again at Bash at the Beach and used the match as a plot point in an episode of Baywatch. He sort of won me back over with the beginning of his nWo run, but then he started not coming to shows when he was champion and when he did show up of course he would never lose. So if they were to bring him back now, I would be fine with it as Hogan in the WWE just seems right somehow.

I know you already said you were wrong, but I thought it was worth pointing out that you clearly don't even remember the match correctly. While Hogan and Warrior did have a confrontation during the Rumble, it was during the MIDDLE of it and Warrior was soon eliminated. The Rumble actually came down to Hogan vs. Perfect so if that what was supposed to lead to your supposed Hogan-Perfect match at Mania it did occur. I don't know for sure, but I think the Luger thing at WM10 is true. I thought I heard Meltzer say that Luger was supposed to beat Yoko to sort of give him the win he never got in his feud with him and then Luger was going to turn around and lose it to Bret later in the show. As for the Blazer winning the IC title, it has been confirmed as true, but I didn't even really need to hear it because I thought it was fairly obvious that he was going to win it. As most have said, Dibiase was definately winning the title at WM4 and I still think it's a travesty that he never held the belt, even more so now that JBL has done it with a lesser version of his gimmick. As for the Austin winning the Final Four match, I think it may be semi-true. I thought I remember hearing Meltzer say that when it was still just a #1 contenders match Bret was going to win. But when Shawn lost his will to lose, I mean smile, they panicked and planned on having Austin win it. But then later they came up with the have Bret win then drop to Sid plan. So the part about the injury costing Austin the title isn't true, but I believe the part about him being booked to win it, although for only a very brief time, is true. But I most definately could be wrong about this, I just think I remember Meltzer mentioning it once.

1) What is your favorite WM, top to bottom, of all time? Wrestlemania 17 2) What is your least favorite WM of all time? Wrestlemania 15 3) What is your favorite WM match? Bret-Shawn ironman 4) What is your least favorite WM match? Undertaker-Bossman 5) Name some honorable mentions for favorite match Savage-Flair, Savage-Warrior, Hogan-Warrior, Owen-Bret, Bret-Austin, Rock-Austin (WM17), Undertaker-Flair 8) Going in, which WM card do you think looked the best on paper? Wrestlemania 20 9) Going in, which WM card do you think looked worst on paper? Wrestlemania 11 10) What do you think is the most underrated WM of all time? WM 9 11) What do you think is the most overrated WM of all time? Wrestlemania 3 12) What is your favorite WM moment? Tie-Savage and Elizabeth reunion and Flair telling Rock "I don't think so motherfucker!" and mocking the People's Elbow, I went nuts for that. 13) What is your least favorite WM moment? The moment Taker pinned Flair I was completely drained. He tortured Flair for months, beat on him, his friend, his son, and threatened his wife and daughter. What a waste of a Double A spinebuster. When Arn hit it I almost jumped through the roof, when Taker kicked out I wanted to sink through the floor. 14) Who would you pick as the top three Wrestlemania performers of all time? Bret, Shawn, Hogan (Savage would be 4 for me and I hate leaving him off, but it does say 3...) 15) How many of the previous 20 Wrestlemanias have you seen? The whole lot 16) What was the most surprising WM moment to you? I still can't believe the crowd reaction for Hogan at 18, especially considering he ran over the Rock with an 18-wheeler "nWo style" 17) Who was your favorite "special guest" at a WM? Ray Charles doing his timeless version of America the Beautiful 18) Which WM have you seen the most times? Wrestlemania 10 19) Which WM commentary team was your favorite? Ross/Heyman.....would LOVE to be able to say something like Ross/Rhodes though. I think that could possibly be the funniest pairing in the history of man should it ever come to pass 20) Above all, what do you want to see at WM this year? Oh boy am I ever going to get it for this....HHH retaining the world title over Batista. I've loved the build to this match like most people here and really wanted this to be the title match, but at no point did I ever fool myself into thinking that Batista should be or would make a good world champion. Batista is not a man that should be world champion, Raw is full of talented faces but has no heel challengers that could even come close to carrying Batista to a match acceptable for a world title main event ppv match. Just let HHH go about his destroying all challengers way until someone worthy enough beats him and it will seem all the sweeter just like it did when Benoit was FINALLY able to dethrone him last year. When HHH tapped it meant something because he had been such a dominating champion. Have Benjamin win the ladder match and then save his shot for Slam and beat H there or something. And finally and most importantly, how bad off are we if after leaving Mania last year with Benoit and Eddie as our champs, we leave this year with Cena and Batista as the top dogs? WWE would implode from the shitty title matches they would be dooming themselves to. At least ONE champion should be able to work a match....

More far-fetched than a tape that if you watch it you die seven days later?

Let me first say that I hated the deer scene as well, BUT the movie in a way did explain it. When Rachel goes down into the basement, there are antlers all over the place. This means that someone in the family enjoyed killing deer a lot. The deer weren't being controlled by Samara, they were trying to kill Samara because they sensed her spirit in Aidan. I agree that this is stupid, since I was thinking it was likely the dad doing the killing so why are they attacking the girl? But like I said, at least they attempted to explain the deer thing. And one last thing on the matter, a quote from Roger Ebert that I thought was funny, "Rachel visits the old farm where girl was mistreated and died. In the basement, she finds antlers. A whole lot of antlers. So maybe the deer sense Samara's ghost's presence in Aidan and are attacking the car in revenge? But Samara was presumably not the deer hunter, being far too occupied being a cruelly mistreated little girl at the time. So is it that the deer are psychic, but not very bright?"

Okay, I'll do Indy, but I will admit now that I am a Saints fan and really have no idea what the Colts would really need other than that it would likely be defensive help.

I would consider taking on Indy for the 4 rounds, but I haven't seen you guys do this before, so I'd like a little more info on how it works. Does it all happen in one sitting or does someone just a post a pick whenever and you have to just keep checking every few hours(or days?) to see when you will be picking again? And if it isn't all in one sitting, when do you think I would make my first pick as Indy(#29) time wise?

I've always enjoyed the Flair match from '91 that was already mentioned, especially how Flair wins by being knocked out on the floor while everyone else is brawling in the ring. I also really enjoyed the "WCW/ECW" vs. WWE match from '01. I thought that match was really well booked and it was during the Heyman/Ross days of calling the shows so the commentary also got over the importance of the match rather than wondering aloud whether or not puppies would be banned in a new WECW era.

Rudo you keep saying this "Benoit shouldn't have been first" line over and over as a way to knock Benoit, but unless I am completely mistaken this is the ONLY hhh pick your poison match. After Batista faces Kane next week it will be over. It isn't a pick your opponent's opponent til mania thing, it was just a two week take turns picking a guy who can wear down your foe thing. So Benoit being Batista's choice DOES mean something. I think the match helped too, as Benoit was just beating the hell out of hhh. But I do agree with one thing, it isn't just the match it's the follow up. So if there is none, it was meaningless. And that is unfortunately what will likely happen....

I think the reason most of the blame can be placed on JBL is because of how the show was promoted. He was the wwe champ going into a big gimmick match with a wrestler who most casual fans probably believe could beat JBL and it was the ONLY match they hyped for the show. When you are the champion and they promote a ppv as a one match show and it's your match, then if it doesn't draw it is considered your fault. And the concept can work, NY Revolution was promoted as a one match show and it did just fine.

But he didn't miss all of it, I'm pretty sure after her second cheap shot he gave her a point deduction.

Well you shoot yourself in the foot with this post right here. You said yourself that the Rumble winner can pick his brand, and then acknowledge that it is a cross-brand match, but then just blow it off and say it can apply for this contract too. Um, no, no it can not. As already said, the contract is for a World Title shot. And despite what you say, the wwe is very strict about which title is which. SD never refers to the wwe title as the world title and same for Raw. And if that isn't enough for you, there is just the plain common sense notion that Bischoff has absolutely no power over SD so any contract he offers on Raw has NO bearing what so ever on SD or anything having to do with it including it's titles.