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To take the convo in a different convo, do you think the Monday airing will draw a higher number than the Saturday showing Mike? I'm not saying I disagree, I was just wondering what made you feel that way. I certainly think it'll be interesting to watch. Originally, I thought that they hyping Oct. 1 would make the first weekend's Saturday show draw better, but over time, the Monday show would pull higher numbers. Anyone think there's a chance that if the Monday show consistently draws more, they'll make that the premier showing?

PWInsider is reporting that they are going to start taping original matches Xplosion again, so maybe there is something to them using that as the second Spike hour. Here's what Mike Johnson posted:

credit: PWInsider.com I like the idea of introducing the characters early. TNA has never really given people much of a reason to cheer or boo their wrestlers other than their workrate, and that's not going to get them the response they are looking for. And if the poll on their site is to be believed, AJ Styles will be in the first Impact match because he's way out in front of Jeff Jarrett, Raven, Monty Brown, AMW and the Naturals.

Credit: TNAWrestling.com Looks like the poll was legit. I wonder if they'll make that a title match. They've already announced the Dudleys, so I'm sure the return is going to be Kevin Nash.

The Torch is reporting that Nash's new deal with TNA is for a year, so I'd bet that we'll see ME at least one PPV during the span. Anyway, here's what was posted:

Meltzer said today that they would most likely go by Ray and Devon. Didn't mention a last name though...

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but with the build pointing to Jarrett and Hardy and now this, it certainly seems like they doing VR redux.

Credit: PWInsider.com This kinda sucks. Waltman has been great in his role since returning in May and would have given TNA a familar face for casual fans come Spike. And I was really hoping he and Shelley would take the tag titles and freshen up the division a lil' bit. I thought we'd have seen them win them at the PPV and then drop them to someone on the first Impact show...but I guees that wasn't meant to be. Thoughts?

In theory, this makes sense, but in actuality, when the last Impact aired on FSN, AJ was the World Champ and Daniels was the X Champ. So this isn't them picking up where they left off so much as them continuing there trend of having the "reliable" guys on top in each division when they get a new audience. Around the time Impact debuted, they switched all the belts within a week. Jarrett won the first KotM match 2 days before the first show, AMW won the tag belts on the first and AJ won the X title on the PPV after the first show. In the process, they cut the legs out from under Kazarian's "I'm the coolest" gimmick that was getting over and Kash/Hoyt time that wasn't given enough time to get over beyond residual heat from Kash's great heel work. So rather than going back to the way things were when they were last on TV, they basically are hitting the reset button again. I'm willing to bet the first Spike show starts with a six man tag, just like the first Impact and the first weekly PPV did.

I was in no way, shape or form suggesting putting the belt on Hardy. I was just negating "TNA had to put the belt on Jarrett because he's the biggest start they have" argument by pointing out that he is not the biggest star they have anymore, because IMHO, Nash, Hardy and Raven are all bigger stars, in that order. And of the three, they'd made the right choice (in terms of business sense, think ECW nostalgia craze) and reliability (Nash=injury prone, Hardy=crazy), but then they fucked it all up Thursday. ,

I hope the Dudleys do debut on the first show. TNA desperately needs a "Lex Luger" for that show, someone fans will instantly recognize and be excited to see. And I agree that they should use the footage to push Dutt as an international star and themselves as a worldwide company. With the title change in Canada and this, the set-up is perfect for that. Thoughts?

The voting for the first match is kinda cool. I wonder if they'll do a legit vote. Also, I'm glad the entire year of PPVs will be available by January. They got start turning those around quicker now that they are in stores

Great summary Ripper! I couldn't agree more.

I was going to agree to disagree as well, but I just don't see how the Dudley's can be stars, but Hardy isn't. They were pushed at the same time, AGAINST each other, and they all got over because of it (along with E&C of course). If the Duds are bigger stars than Jarrett, than so is Hardy IMHO. Which I think is true on both counts. I can't stand the Hardy marks either and creatively TNA would be better off turning him heel, but I doubt they will, because they value those marks.

This is what I've been saying Carnviliz. That is it and that is all. I'm not saying I'm a Hardy fan (I'm far from it...I didn't even like them as a team, though I loved Matt's V1 gimmick). I'm just saying that he puts butts in the seats and always has, though to a lesser degree now. Five years after his peak, there are people that show up to the studio every week DRESSED as Jeff Hardy and leave when his match is over. You mean to tell me they're not buying DVDs, shirts and headbands? And Sting was a big star, but now, I don't think Sting showing up will make people flock to TNA. Hell, they lied for a year in commercials with footage of him like he was there every week and it did nothing. And once again, I was pumped when Sting showed up the first few times. This isn't my opinion. This is me stepping outside of my opinion to face facts. Like Ripper said, TNA has had very few bigger stars for CASUAL fans than Hardy. Nash, Hall and once upon a time, Sting. That's it. Their second tier of "name" games, i.e Jarrett, Raven, if they can ever get D'Lo back, have value from being on those shows when casual fans were paying attention, but clearly the not the same level of value to the mainstream fans TNA desperately wants to attract. Either way, they should use whatever value they have to make stars out of AJ, Daniels, Joe, Abyss and Monty, so that TNA won't be seen as retread city all the time. Once again, not my opinion, but the clear majority opinion based on reaction. I just told you that the whole time they were chanting for Hardy, I was chanting for AJ. I've watched the match on tape and seen myself wearing an AJ Styles t-shirt, so I'm no Hardy mark. Trust and believe. Raven was a tweener when he showed up in TNA, a face after the Jarrett fiasco, a full out heel after he went nuts and turned on Chris Harris in the beginning of 2004 (after which, his DVD was released). He may have even been a heel before that, but he was definitely a heel from that point until the fans popped huge for his title win and the bookers listened to them. They just kinda had Abyss attack him and all of a sudden he was there top face, but hell, he was a heel when he was "suspended by babyface Larry Z" and attacked him 3 weeks earlier. And they followed that segment immediately with a commercial for his DVD. Because heel, face or tweener there are people who would buy a Raven DVD. It's marketable. Jarrett DVD on the other hand? We're still waiting on it, because they still have to convince he's a big enough star to warrant one. My point was that TNA putting the belt on Jarrett 2 weeks before they return to national TV because he's "the biggest star they have" (which he is clearly not), is ridiculous. It was ok when they were a start-up company, slightly less so when they were breaking onto national TV after 2 years. But it's absolutely ridiculous after 3 years, in which instead of using what value Jarrett did have to get other guys over, they used every name they could get to make Jarrett the star he never was. Though it was laughable in terms of tv, TNA had a year of more eyeballs then they ever had when they were just running PPVs. And the only star they even tried to make in that year was Jarrett, who you're claiming was already a huge star, and thus shouldn't need the rub of beating 4 guys to win the belt, defeated the company's rising star twice and beating Nash and DDP (both of whom are also bigger stars than JJ) in consecutive PPVs. I'm not talking about potential to be "super"stars, because both guys are past the potential point in their careers. Monty, AJ, Daniels, Hoyt and Abyss are at the potential point. Hardy and Jarrett both had their moments in the sun, and they are both as big as they ever going to be, and as it stands, Hardy is a bigger star than Jarrett. They both have value to TNA though, as they can both be used to legitimize the potential guys. If the argument is that Jarrett has more in-ring talent than Hardy, then definitely. But if the argument is that anytime TNA has a new audience they should shove Jarrett down everyone's throat because he's a huge star, then absolutely not. No, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about all the Jarrett marks that roam the boards related to TNA (TNARev, the official site). Believe it or not, you're not the only one. And I will give you credit for not claiming putting the belt on Jarrett is smart decision. That means you're not a blind Jarrett mark. But a Jarrett mark you are, nonetheless. And that's clouding you're view of his starpower.

I agree...despite the show's being canned, they still need to work to create the anything can happen vibe. That vibe was huge for Nitro in 95 and huge for Raw in 98. At some point in the he first show, they should show footage of the change and JJ and AMW in the ring gloating. The Duds show up and hit the 3D on one of AMW and are chased off by security. Tenay and West wonder what they were doing there the rest of the show. From there, they can debut their new gimmick and feud with AMW, because I'm sure the Naturals are dropping the straps on the first show. I think the Duds are perfect for that Lex Luger roll, b/c they weren't "fired," so net fans won't be as quick throw them into the "WWE rejects" category and casual fans don't know anything that happened, they just know the Duds used to be on WWE, and here they are showing up on this new show, so it must be a big deal, a la Luger on Nitro. Like Luger, it helps that they were pushed heavily at one time in front of a big audience, unlike say Rhino, who was 4 years removed from receiving a substantial push. Luger was a year removed from main evented WM, and the Duds were one of the dominant tag teams after the NAO run.

Exactly! And let's face it, where the JJ marks wanna admit it or not, being "the new ECW" is infinitely cooler than being "WCW 2000." As long as Jarrett's on top, that's the stigma they'll have. Why do you think we're still waiting on Booker T to win his first world title? Because clearly, being associated with WCW at the end is bad for business.

You're making my point. Jarrett's been pushed down everybody's throats for so long, people are sick of it. Hardy on the other hand, still has people saying he hasn't been pushed enough over the years and he could have been the next HBK (as far as stardom, not ringwork) if he had said focused on the business. You ever hear people making such lofty comparisions about Jarret? Even with the benefit of basically ten years of being steadily pushed, Jeff Jarrett still isn't a household name. Jeff Hardy, on the other hand is, even if people say, oh, he was the crazy guy from the Hardy Boys. And this isn't me staying Hardy should be champ. This is me saying to think that Jarrett is far an away the biggest star they have is ridiculous. He was in 2002, now, not so much. Have you seen the commercial for the Hardy Boys interview DVD during Raw? That's not a TNA product, and it has nothing to do with heel and face, that has to do with mainstream appeal. And your heel/face point is moot, because they released the Raven DVD when he was a heel. They popped for Raven, they popped for D'Lo, and they popped for Sting, but from talking to people in the post show party who had been to every TNA show in Nashville, no one got a reaction like Hardy. And I was one of the people chanting for AJ. I wasn't saying I like Hardy more than Sting, I was just saying that it was clear from that reaction that that crowd thought Hardy was the biggest star to ever appear in TNA. So how does that cancel everything I saw. Hardy DOES have more mainstream appeal and I'm not even talking about current crowd reactions, because right now, neither is setting the world on fire in that department. The only thing that's clear is that you like Jarrett more than Hardy. And so do I. But neither of our opinions is enough to make him a bigger star than Jarrett, because he clearly is not.

Look, I'm no Hardy fan, but let's be honest here. Holding the WCW Title when ratings where in the toilet vs. making highlight reel after highlight reel with TLC matches when ratings were in the 5s and 6s There's no comparasion. There's a reason TNA put out a Hardy DVD after a year of mediocre matches and there often discussed Jarrett DVD, which 3 years of a largely decent body of work. They know that Hardy has much bigger mainstream appeal than Jarrett, regardless of the fact that Jarrett has been harder for MUCH longer. Jarrett has gotten a sizeable push in every organization he's been in 95, and he's got about a year and a half overness to show for it (the run with Debra, the beginning of the Slapnuts period and the first TNA face run). Hardy got a half hearted tag team push 5 years ago and still remains hugely over today. I was in Nashville the night he debuted, and the ONLY person on that show who got anywhere near the reaction Hardy got was Styles (which was out of respect for his ringwork). Clearly, the fans who attended TNA shows for 2 years to that point viewed Hardy as a big star than anyone who'd ever appeared in TNA, including Sting. There were people there that night who walked up and brought tickets because they heard he was going to be there. That's mainstream appeal in spades. And Jarrett ain't got it.

Jarrett being TNA's biggest star is certainly debatable. I'd argue, like others have, that Raven is just as big in that he has a devoted cult following, unlike Jarrett, who benefits in name recognition from being pushed for so many years in attempt after attempt to get over. And for all their faults, Nash and Hardy are certainly bigger names than Jarrett. Nash was on top of one of the biggest angles EVER and Hardy was one of the most memorable players from the biggest period in WWE history. Both have more mainstream recognization in their left pinkies that Jarrett does. Look at all the people who show for Hardy matches and leaves. And I'm sure his DVD sells like hotcakes. But, regardless of that, clearly TNA is not going to make it if Jarrett is always the biggest star they have. That was a compelling reason to put the belt on him in 2002. It was a compelling reason to put the belt on him in 2004 before the FSN debut. But what does it say that after three years of opportunity to make new stars, the best reason they have to put the belt on Jarrett is not that he's over, but that he's the biggest start they have? I can only hope Jarrett is holding the belt so that Monty can quickly turn face and take it from him like he should have at Final Resolution. If that's Jarrett's purpose in holding the belt, I have no problem with him winning it, because I do think that he's the best guy to give the rub to Monty. But just like Nash, Hall, DDP and whoever else they bring, at this point, Jarrett needs to be making new stars, because we already saw how well things went with those guys were the focal point feuding with each other. But so far, it seems like he's not interested in that, because then he wouldn't be able to fall back on the "I'm the only name we have" argument to convince bookers to put the belt back on him. And this is coming from someone who generally likes Jarrett. He's not my favorite wrestler, but there are guys that make me change the channel (like Chris Masters for instance) and he's not one of them. So I don't hate him, and I don't begrudge him for winning the title (the first and third times), but I don't like the fact that they aborted AJ's first reign for the phantom Hogan feud and that he didn't put Monty over at Final Resolution like he should have. I guarantee if he'd taken a Pounce there, his third reign wouldn't be as hated as it and there might not have been such a vehoment reaction around here to him winning it back. (His stunt at Slammiversary probably didn't help much either...) With Raven (or Brown, Abyss, or virtually anybody other than AJ or Jarrett) on top heading into Spike, at least the show would have been fresh. With Jarrett on top, Impact on Spike is going to feel just like Impact on FSN, because there were - count 'em - exactly 2 shows in that entire year that did not have Jarrett as champ. I honestly think the reason the internet shows were so well received around here was that not only did they feature great matches, but they felt different than anything TNA had ever produced, because for the first time since Shamrock was the focal point, the world title seen was not solely focused on Jarrett. Every other champion (basically just Truth and AJ) was seen as placeholders for Jarrett because he was still the focus. This time, although Jarrett hadn't totally disappeared, they had finally succeeded in making the World title scene solely about Jarrett, and the shows improved because of it. And now...we're back to square one. So sure, Jarrett is a name, and the ratings will be better because there will be more available viewers (and Jarrett apologists will use the increase to say he's a draw), but clearly 11 months on top during the FSN didn't exactly set the world on fire. In fact, IIRC, the ratings decreased significantly during the latter portion of Jarrett's rating.

Here's a report on the show from Slam Wrestling: It's good they drew a hot crowd that was seemingly into TNA. Anyone know how big the building was? I think that's necessary to decide whether the draw was good or bad. As for the title change, I understand why they felt the need to change the belt here. Now, if they run a Canadian tour sometime, they can say "last time we were here, the World Title changed, don't miss us this time." But c'mon...ANYBODY but Jarrett. JEEZ! I'd really like to know who composed this test group. Jerry and Jarrett's wife? I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt until BFG because I still have faith in the committee, but unless Jarrett eats a Pounce in short order, this makes absolutely no sense.

TNA posted this on their site a few minutes ago:

Well Monty did throw the challenge out for BFG on the Unbreakable pre-show. But Jarrett seems to be feuding with Hardy. Maybe we'll get a deadly draw with JJ, Monty, Hardy and Raven. That's pretty much TNA's star power...unless they toss Nash in there and if they decide to put Monty over, he can get the rub for new fans of going over all the names at once. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here though.

Well it's was smart of TNA to do something significant and film it, so they bill it as a house show when the hit Spike. Give them an air of legitimacy. BUT, the only way Jarrett having the title is ok if they go ahead with the Monty turn they've been hinting at and he eats a Pounce at BFG.

Here's an interesting thing I got from the WO mailbag: I have always said that I would like to see TNA get a second hour of first run shows one way or another, even if they had to beef up the synidicated network and use Xplosion, but I gotta say that this guys idea about using it as a Best Of sort of deal with plugs for Impact isn't too bad either. That might be the best way to hook channel surfers. They tuned in a see, say the UX from Final Resolution, and after the match, they see JB and Shane saying what AJ, Petey and Sabin are up to for that Saturday's Impact. That could certainly work. And if they do choose to replay Impact in the slot, then they should definitely do new commentary reflecting hyping the replay of the PPV, even if it's a post-produced hard sell from DW after the conclusion of the show. I hadn't even thought of the SNME/Impact head to head. If IIRC, they'll only be head to head for a half hour (I think the SNME will start at 11:30), but I think how TNA fares there will go a long way toward determining the feasibility of them going head to head on Monday in Spike's eyes. Thoughts?